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BigWaveSurfer

Tier 10 BB. Yamato vs Montana

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Alpha Tester
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Had to put this question up.

which ship do you think would win most of the time (because sometimes things do go in favour of the under-dog)

let have a quick look at the 2 tier ten battleships first.

in the red corner weighting in at 68,000 tons the Yamato.

packing 9x 18.1inch main guns each gun firing a shell weighting in at 3,240lb (1470kg) total broadside 29,160lb

armour. belt 16.1in (410mm), deck 9.1in-7.9in (230-200mm), barbettes 21.5in (546mm)max. turret 25.6in (650mm)max.

in the blue corner weighting in at 60,500 ton the Montana.

packing 12x 16in (50cal) main guns each gun firing a shell weighting in at 2,700lb (1225kg) total broadside 32,400lb

armour. belt 16.1in (409mm) plus 7.2in (183mm) internal, deck 7.35in-6in (187-152mm), barbettes 21.3in (541mm)max.

turret 22.5in (572mm)max.

top speed Yamato 27kts, Montana 28kts  

 

if nothing else it would be a slugging match. not really much in it. I think the only thing Yamato has on the Montana is that some of the armour should keep out shells more often then the Montana but really I can't pick it.

feel free to comment

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Alpha Tester
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I would say Yamato based on paper.  But things like fire control systems and what not also come into consideration so therefor an accurate answer is not available.  

 

But I like the Yamato better just for the stalga. 

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Super Tester
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In actuality, I think the Montana.

 

I remember something about the Yamato having issues with its systems or something.

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Super Tester
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Before major nations believe that Aircraft Carrier as symbol of naval power. Japan's defense command believes at first that naval power depends on Battleship. So notably, Yamato serves that purpose. Japan navy has strong naval power that time and technological advanced, that seems outclass the Americans. But America outclassed Japan in terms of production though, which Japan didn't thought about it before going to war with American.

 

As I understand BB Yamato has longer firing range with its 46cm guns and with support of seaplane to Artillery Spotting (Aim Assist/Gun Angle Adjustment), it would definitely be this BB.

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Alpha Tester
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Before major nations believe that Aircraft Carrier as symbol of naval power. Japan's defense command believes at first that naval power depends on Battleship. So notably, Yamato serves that purpose. Japan navy has strong naval power that time and technological advanced, that seems outclass the Americans. But America outclassed Japan in terms of production though, which Japan didn't thought about it before going to war with American.

 

As I understand BB Yamato has longer firing range with its 46cm guns and with support of seaplane to Artillery Spotting (Aim Assist/Gun Angle Adjustment), it would definitely be this BB.

 

IIRC the japanese knew that they cant beat the american in long term war due to the power of the american production. Thats why they launch an attack on pearl harbour with the aim to wipe out all of the USN capital ship or severely cripple them , thus lowering the capability of the USN in the pacific in hoping to force a cease fired / truce from the US. But unfortunately for the IJN,,,, all of the US carriers were not in  pearl harbour and the US decide to wage a war with japan instead of falling back

 

Basically Japan was doom from the very day they launch the surprise attack.

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Alpha Tester
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Range is everything. Whoever can deliver accurate fire at the longest range will win a 1v1 BB slugfest, and odds are its probably the Yamato.

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Alpha Tester
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Don't read to much into having longer range. During battle HMS Warspite achieved one of the longest range gunnery hits from a moving ship to a moving target in history, hitting the Giulio Cesare at a range of approximately 24km (26,000 yards), the other being a shot from Scharnhorst which hit Glorious at approximately the same distance in June 1940. so as you can see from this hitting a moving battleship from another battleship at a range above 24km has yet to be done. Radar would I think go to the Montana is better off, but the range finders on Yamato I would think are better.

it was the 2nd internal armoured belt that caught my eye in picking Montana, a ship that is hard to sink does tend to keep on firing longer. but really at best I would have to give it a 51% chance of beating Yamato. I look forward to playing either ship. but which one to put my free xp on is hard to pick, I do like the Yamato a lot and she was a real ship not a paper ship. :unsure:

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Alpha Tester
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In real life,I'll go for Montana. Although the main gun on Yamato can shoot up to 42km, the maxmimun eyesight is only about 22km on the sea. Since Yamato has poor radar which barely can use, The Montana wins.

 

In game, I think WG will make a way to "balance" them so we'll see.:trollface:

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Alpha Tester
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Its effective range that Im talking about, not maximum range. The ships have pretty comparable speeds, so whichever one can lay down effective fire from greater range is gonna take the prize most days. The Yanks did do a lot of work with analog fire control computers though, and got pretty credible accuracy levels out of those.

 

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Alpha Tester
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oh cmon, the winner of one on one battle with fair fight always the one with stronger spec. Somethings that make ijn's super bb seems cant do shit is probably because their AA capability worst compared to the american ones. Even thickest hull armor is irrelevant against many bomber from above the air.

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Alpha Tester
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@mingfang ijn never got cocky with it's technological advance or great naval capability. The one that forcing yamamoto a.k.a the combined fleet commander to attack pearl harbor is media and japanese armies authority. Yamamoto very aware of america's industrial capacity, not to mention he was live there for several years. His main plan just make usn surrender in pacific, no plan to attacking their mainland.

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Super Tester
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I like how nobody brings up the obvious problem.

Battles aren't merely decided by equipment... not even solely by how skilled or experienced soldiers are.

All too often they're decided by simple luck, or bad luck for the pitiful souls on the receiving end.

 

Finding the japanese aircraft carriers was a set up plan, but it was still a gamble to actually spot them.

 

Wellington at Waterloo had hoped for Blücher to arrive, he gambled that the Prussians wouldn't give up.

 

Nelson's battle plan at Trafalgar was both risky and based on luck, he literally exposed his entire fleet to broadsides while unable to return fire.

 

Arminius based his entire battle plan on the Romans not retiring into open fields, but instead advance deeper into the forest.

 

Hannibal's crossing of the alps could've ended quite pre-maturely if the Gaul's decided not to wait and see how he would do against the Romans.

 

And the list goes on endlessly.

Battles are won by men and machine, but decided by luck and gambles.

Thus to answer the question:

It's impossible to answer, it depends on the ships, the crews and whoever is in favour of good old Fortuna.

Edited by Retia

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Alpha Tester
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This should be Yamato vs Iowa considering there were no Montana's ever completed. So I voted Yamato.

 

Either way both Yamato and Iowa were similar in regards to fire power, armour, underwater protection, AA, and overall combat agility - survivability, damage control systems, speed etc. - but Japanese fire control systems were never going to match the US.

 

FC during those times - and now - play a huge role in who will win at sea. Raytheon radar systems gave US ships the ability to 'blindfire' targets OTH whereas Japanese vessels would need to be within visual range. Japan, Germany and the Italians never developed those systems during the period and were only good for targeting a BB size vessel in their optics range which was approx. 27 Kyds,

 

 

Edited by HuehueHefner

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Alpha Tester
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I didn't put the Iowa in for 2 reasons.

1. Iowa is what they called a 'fast battleship' kind of the like the German battlecruisers of WWI, they could go in line battle if they had to, but they were not as well protected as battleships (unlike British BC's that should never go in line battle against BB's). The Montana on the other hand was built with the Yamato in mind.

2. Iowa is down as tier 9 for the game with the BB-65-2 as tier 10 for there fast line of battleship. Montana on the other hand is at tier 10 on the BB line

 

just on another note I wasn't thinking about crew when I put this poll up, I just wanted people to compare the 2 ships and see which one they thought would win most of the time (if the crew where evenly matched)

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Alpha Tester
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I didn't put the Iowa in for 2 reasons.

1. Iowa is what they called a 'fast battleship' kind of the like the German battlecruisers of WWI, they could go in line battle if they had to, but they were not as well protected as battleships (unlike British BC's that should never go in line battle against BB's). The Montana on the other hand was built with the Yamato in mind.

2. Iowa is down as tier 9 for the game with the BB-65-2 as tier 10 for there fast line of battleship. Montana on the other hand is at tier 10 on the BB line

 

just on another note I wasn't thinking about crew when I put this poll up, I just wanted people to compare the 2 ships and see which one they thought would win most of the time (if the crew where evenly matched)

Another note is that the upgrade tree for the Iowa class ends in the ability to accurately fire all the way out to max gun range, and missiles. Because overkill.

 

In WoWS terms though it will probably be mid 50s tech at best, which should in theory still make them the vessels with the longest detection ranges and best gunnery.

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Alpha Tester
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There are a lot of ships that were planed and in some cases even started work on, but because of the naval treaty of around 1921 or 1922 they had to be scarped or converted, that treaty ran to almost the start of the WWII so a lot of designs work was done without any chance of the ships being built. most good battleship book will cover them. ships like the Lexington CC-1 battlecruiser (turning into a carrier) the British N3 design (which had to be cut down to take it from 48,500tons down to under 35,000tons given you the Nelson). even the Russians had the Sovietsky Soyuz of 59,000tons, Germany had the 'O', 'P' and 'Q' battlecruiser designed as longe range raider. the list goes on.

I'm not as big a fan of paper tanks and planes as there were many real ones not yet in the game, but I think there is room for paper ships in WoWS

 

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[CLAY]
Alpha Tester
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Another note is that the upgrade tree for the Iowa class ends in the ability to accurately fire all the way out to max gun range, and missiles. Because overkill.

 

In WoWS terms though it will probably be mid 50s tech at best, which should in theory still make them the vessels with the longest detection ranges and best gunnery.

wiki pre-release

~~Summary¶
What is World of Warships? If you're familiar with World of Tanks, you already have a pretty good idea. If you're not, World of Warships will, at its essence, be two teams of players, each Captaining a warship, facing off against each other in a twenty minute battle royale. Only ships from a little before World War I, until just after World War II will be available for play.
 

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Senior Moderator
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wiki pre-release

~~Summary¶
What is World of Warships? If you're familiar with World of Tanks, you already have a pretty good idea. If you're not, World of Warships will, at its essence, be two teams of players, each Captaining a warship, facing off against each other in a twenty minute battle royale. Only ships from a little before World War I, until just after World War II will be available for play.
 

 

I would take marketing blurbs with a large fistful of salt if I were you.

 

WoT, for example, have gone way past the WWII era despite being marketed as a WWII themed game. Not everything the devs say will become reality, and they can change their mind about anything. Except subs.

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Alpha Tester
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I'm not as big a fan of paper tanks and planes as there were many real ones not yet in the game, but I think there is room for paper ships in WoWS

 

 

Lucky there are no Submarines allowed. On  paper the USN was building something sinister.

 

 

 

A freekn Submarine Launched F-35!

KX50C3X.gif

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[CLAY]
Alpha Tester
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I would take marketing blurbs with a large fistful of salt if I were you.

 

WoT, for example, have gone way past the WWII era despite being marketed as a WWII themed game. Not everything the devs say will become reality, and they can change their mind about anything. Except subs.

 

you keeping something from me again amade? :tongue:

they do kind of run into a dead end with battleships. the only one that comes to mind as a post WWII battleship is HMS Vanguard (1946).

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