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EvyL

KM Scharnhorst

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Super Tester
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Never thought I would derp this thing of all the bit I did but meh.

 

I PRESENT TO YOU THE KM SCHARNHORST.

 

im48yc.jpg

 

This thing is the only freaky ship that has the dubious honor of being a battlecruiser sans battleship type despite her official bit as a full-on battleship.

 

Of all the things to pop out and what some are eagerly expecting in the Germany battleship tree might be this thing. Since Germany was still gagged and muzzled by the Treaty of Versailles like a dominatrix stepping all over someone with their hands bound behind their back, ship construction wasn't all that good for the German Navy and said gagging and muzzling was to prevent them from starting to subcheese the sea so much that you would be forced to play the game of 'pin the depth charge on the u-boat'. To add the complication, the Naval Treaties aka Nerf Papers were there to prevent nations from going all "nice boat... now how the hell do I build something to beat it?" although to be fair, in the interim the Washington Naval Treaty had a couple of amendments such as increased long tonnage and cruiser hard cap for the signatories and a 'plan B' escalating clause where if anyone had somehow 'oopsie'd' the nerf and build something outrageous, they in turn would respond but will still be under the nerf they had placed only with the embedded plan B taking full effect. After a while however, Hitler wanted to remove the gag as the muzzle was already removed not too long ago during when Germany was still rolling in the Weimar Republic and had discussed for the needs of a solid capital ship that did not violate the nerf put in place but would still be solid as they can although all of this was before Nazi Germany decided to ragequit out of the nerf and build the Bismarcks in just a very small span of months or years which is probably coincidental as Japan also ragequitted right at the Second London conference for amendment to the ship nerf put in place. One interesting result was the Scharnhorsts but we'll speak of the big sister.

 

2lj3tyc.jpg

how to Scharnhorst in WWII:

topmost - 1939 during her shakedown cruise

middle - Operation Cerberus/Channel Dash refit with noticable bow which I think is called the "Atlantic bow" as there was some derp that happened during her shakedown cruise that accidented her bow. mast also looks a bit smaller and moved a bit backwards

bottom - 1943 outfit

 

There is, however, a very interesting question that still generates a crapton of discussion on the freaky thing: is she a battleship or a battlecruiser?

 

sp8xlw.jpg

 

Behold, her side cutout.

 

Scharnhorst by the time she was in her shakedown cruise was protected with about 14 inches of belt, 2 inches of deck, protected turrets that had a thickness range of 8-14 inches and the conning tower with about 13-14 inches thick. Now there was something wonky about her deck as there was... well... a tiny section where I remember that one of the boilers kinda protruded a bit and was covered with nothing more than 80mm thick of armor plate since despite the fact a heavy cruiser zeroing in there could potentially put the ship dead in the water, who'd know it was freakin there? Her offense and close-in weapons consist of nine 11 inch guns in three triple mount turrets which in the Kriegsmarine then had AB-C/Anton, Bruno und Caesar which is basically their version of the AB-X layout, a dozen 6 inch guns for secondaries, some 4 inch guns and a load of 2cm guns for her AA suite. She could run with the speed of about 32 knots and had a sound endurance for a ship of her grade (now if only the Italian battleships would stop swimming in the Mediterranean and try enduring the brutal seas of areas such as the Baltics or the Black Sea, that would be impressive).

 

Now this might be for the weaponfags to start railing at although I have yet to hear from the seasoned detailfags in the APAC server to note changes in ships aside from people still calling Kongo a facemelt between the lead ship and Hiei. Scharnhorst packing 11 inch guns was there because one pointed out that so that the Brits wont get cranky and go all "y u put big dakka on battleship? u know about nerf and ur gag amirite?" which is certainly one thing that would be ticking off... that and the KM started to build subs again to once more subcheese the sea because honey badger don't care, honey badger don't give a shit all is fair in love and war. So far, 11 inch guns had already been packed by German battlecruisers and while it was indeed solid vs cruisers, its going to barely do squat against the newer iterations of battleships which are protected from 14 inch rounds, how much more with her 11 inch rounds. To solve that notion a bit later, they wanted to cram six 15 inch guns on her in three dual mount turrets so that she will become Deutschland 2.0 able to blast battleships more effectively. Well that was strange.

 

vrzp0p.jpg

 

The ship at 1939 was practically there after the fitting outs were done witnessed by Herr Fuhrer himself and was to be subjected to the brutal part in how to ship: the shakedown cruise. This cruise isn't an ordinary cruise, this run is to see if the ship is truly seaworthy and she does NOT have any dubious prospects of construction or design which is pretty much us Supertesters taking the then-NDA'd Tirpitz in her shakedown cruise. Its really a must for all ships to have a shakedown because you don't want to be in a ship that's untested, now do you? It had to happen and they found something that alarmed them a bit as the bow section, when in the rough seas, had a propensity of taking water due to the design of sort of her prow, started flooding and knocked out some electrical systems in the forward section of the ship and so was sent back to the drydock to grab a new raised prow for that. When WWII kicked off when Germany steamrolled into Poland, Scharnhorst was somewhere in the seas patrolling with her little sister, a light cruiser and a few destroyers to provide something for the Brits to eyeball with to ease Graf Spee, a Deutschland cruiser, which was already playing tag with HMS Exeter and her consorts. Was probably the first commerce raider to unload at an armed merchant vessel in the whole war and as it was burning, A squadron of the Allied Navy starting with the spotting of Newcastle heading in as they were picking up survivors with her little sister and decided to run back to base using the weather as cover and good thing too, as the Hood, Nelson, Rodney and Dunkerque ran after them but failed to even blast the ships although Scharnhorst and Gneisenau weren't exactly Scott Free as the brutal winds gave them something to bemuse upon as in base, her boilers were upchucked and she underwent repairs.

 

The battleship wasn't with her mar of shame however as there was a freaky encounter with the battlecruiser Renown which when the British battlecruiser was reported visibility contact via her gun flashes as she was blasting Gneisenau, something went wrong with Scharnhorst's radar which severely restricted her gunnery and the battlecruiser was already blasting her at this point and she had to maneuver hard and both of them had to outrun the battlecruiser because had they stayed longer, Renown would send them under as she had bigger guns although this is not taking into account if she DID have rounds left after shelling both Gneisenau and Scharnhorst. After that shameful run, she had her run in the slugfests at Narvik, invasion of Denmark and Norway and operated as a commerce raider.

 

Warspite isn't the only ship that slotted a moving ship from far away however as the Scharnhorst did as well. In terms of range the Warspite wins but in terms of solo achievement and ship type, the Scharnhorst blasted a carrier whilst the Warspite was blasting a battleship. During the Norway campaign she and her little sister sent the carrier HMS Glorious down under despite being smoked by her escorting destroyers which makes it so that both Scharnhorst class had aimbots and wallhacks superb gear that was totally not cheating at all and that the big sister had the second honor of railing in a long range hit on a moving ship. However, I'm starting to think these ships are freakin ninjas as they appear when there's a convoy of gud stuff to send down under and only running away when powerful ships such as the King George V's were called in to find em as they use the weather to run away although they get battered by the winds as consequence.

 

260d5wj.jpg

 

She had her taste of whacking from the air as bombers gave her damage that nearly... neeeaaarly made her aft magazine go boom and participated in the Channel Dash which was, in all essences of words, a gauntlet run where she got mined, started listing and slowing down and eventually stopping which was really REALLY bad as the Brits took this chance to try and send her down under with plane spam with the end result of the Germans eventually finishing the gauntlet run and Scharnhorst's AA suite were all red hot from the constant firing. This is why plane spam is a ghey maneuver TACTIC MEANT TO DESTROY FILTHY ALL GUN SHIPS! Well her runs came to an end however as she was targeted by a task force led by the Duke of York just to blast her and she was alone... oh so alone since she was just to blast some ships filled with assorted crap that was the lifeblood of the war effort... perfect for the Brits. They didn't want her to run and kept blasting her so hard that they were forced to flood the magazine to prevent it from going boom and until the last run of her hour turret C was the only one shooty enough as the magazine crews were running to the magazines of turrets A and B to keep the last turret shooting... but it failed with the utmost drama of a tear jerking story there is as she was given the coup de grace of torpedo strikes. Well that was insane however, what capital ship ninjas her way out from a brawl? Tell that to the freakin Scharnhorst and the Brits are vengeance-driven guys as they actually sent hunter-killer teams to ships that gave them great grief: for the sinking of Hood Bismarck was hunted down with all the fury of her colleagues, Scharnhorst had a hunter-killer team get her when she was doing her routine commerce raid and the Myoko cruiser Haguro had a couple of destroyers out to kill her... dafuq. This still didn't answer that question however.

 

In-game wise, I'm actually assuming that the Scharnhorst, much like the Tirpitz albeit more maneuverable, can behave as both standard battleship or battlecruiser given the layout and crap she gets. putting on the planned dual mount turrets packing 15 inch guns makes her stand at the battle line since her armor is solid enough to deal with punishments and the 11 inch guns will make her into a battlecruiser as those things are highly effective vs cruisers and destroyers and with her speed and armor it won't be surprising if she can act AS a battlecruiser. I'm also sure that Scharnhorst is at tier 7 and will be a staple for competitive play assuming the RUdevs will not make her agonizing to play.

 

derp.exe has stopped working.

 

that is all.

Edited by EvyL

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Beta Tester
1,825 posts
5,163 battles

The Germans love small but quick firing guns on their ships. Despite being small caliber, their guns has pretty impressive velocity and armor penetration. Scharnhorst/Gneisenau-class is likely to be in tier 7. She is fast... And i think She will have torpedoes too. Why not then? She has  six 53.3 cm deck-mounted torpedo tubes. Guess the play style for this German beauty is more like a cruiser.

 

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Super Tester
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I dare to say this should be tier 5 ship

 

Pray tell, what made you think that? Her armor and ergonomics are sound enough at tier 7 and her gun selection, again, can make her behave in two different things.

 

There's the Koenig and Bayern battleships to think of and Bismarck is at tier 8 which rightfully makes her tier 7.

 

The Germans love small but quick firing guns on their ships. Despite being small caliber, their guns has pretty impressive velocity and armor penetration. Scharnhorst/Gneisenau-class is likely to be in tier 7. She is fast... And i think She will have torpedoes too. Why not then? She has  six 53.3 cm deck-mounted torpedo tubes. Guess the play style for this German beauty is more like a cruiser.

 

The question is then if they would shorten the range of those 11 inch guns despite the conformed high velocity. From what bit I can gather, that thing can punch through a good bit of armor only if you're at salvo trading range and not attempting to bracket or straddle someone.

Edited by EvyL

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Alpha Tester
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Pray tell, what made you think that? Her armor and ergonomics are sound enough at tier 7 and her gun selection, again, can make her behave in two different things.

 

There's the Koenig and Bayern battleships to think of and Bismarck is at tier 8 which rightfully makes her tier 7.

 

 

Yeah, i forgot, WG could fasten her RoF, and give her krautz armor:bajan:

how foolish i am:child:

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Super Tester
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Heh, the Ultimate CA/CL Hunter.

 

Runs away when facing battleships though. If in any ship that is a cruiser thug but is not a battlecruiser herself, the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau are those types of ships. Damn bullies.

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Member
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It's not Scharnhorst, it's Cheathorst

Scamhorst? It's not as good as it is hyped to be (I think the Admiral Hipper, or the Deutschland class cruisers will take all the hype, leaving a little, if unpredictable hype left for all the other cruisers. Same goes for the Bismarck in the BB line).

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Super Tester
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Scamhorst? It's not as good as it is hyped to be (I think the Admiral Hipper, or the Deutschland class cruisers will take all the hype, leaving a little, if unpredictable hype left for all the other cruisers. Same goes for the Bismarck in the BB line).

 

One thing will most likely happen is that she WILL rip cruisers apart and potentially destroyers with a bit of ease as she had done on commerce raids and a cruiser can't outright blast her due to her protected belt. One problem however will be if someone gets a lucky shot to her engines with plunging fire she'll most likely go boom. The hype however is from the "ERMAGHERD SCHERNHERST" level and not of "Scharnhorst is going to be gud and OP hurr durr" from what I can tell as I am however in the former. Aside from her upgunning, I still am quite interested if there were plans for her to soup up armor as well.

 

Scamhorst and cheatland

Ohhh, So much for Pun

 

Scamhorst, Cheatland, Haxlanta, Baltimoist, Des Moans... but its going to be funny seeing the Scharnhorst behave as a battlecruiser in-game and people whine of her ability to give cruisers a whacking as well as functioning as a standard battleship despite the... well... potential problems her layout might get.

Edited by EvyL

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[CLAY]
Alpha Tester
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Yeah, i forgot, WG could fasten her RoF, and give her krautz armor:bajan:

how foolish i am:child:

 

 

Just over 3 rounds a minute was her normal RoF. (think it was 18 second reload off the top of my head....feel free to stop me if I'm wrong)

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Beta Tester
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Just over 3 rounds a minute was her normal RoF. (think it was 18 second reload off the top of my head....feel free to stop me if I'm wrong)

 

3 rounds per min sounds good. With 280 mm guns, that's more than enough to give a CL/CA a really bad day.

But what if she has the horrible gun dispersion like the Tirpitz?

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Super Tester
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3 rounds per min sounds good. With 280 mm guns, that's more than enough to give a CL/CA a really bad day.

But what if she has the horrible gun dispersion like the Tirpitz?

 

I hope not. Tirpitz IMHO feels like it has sound dispersion as during my time with her in her shakedown cruise with and without the main battery accuracy equipment, I scored at most 4-6 hits.

 

She also had a good FCS as she at a time fired right into the smokescreen that concealed the Glorious.

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Super Tester
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speaking of which, I found this:

 

4shfo6.jpg

 

The Scharnhorst with distributed 15 inch guns instead of projected pair of triple mount turrets packing em. Now as this may make the ship more viable, the problem now is that the foremast will be pushed backwards some more to accomodate the new guns. I am not entirely sure if this involves souping up the armor as well as she might slow down.

 

Now this solidifies my assumption that the Scharnhorst is the Mogami of the battleships as you can pack the 11 inch guns to rip cruisers apart and give destroyers a hard whacking OR you can still be effective with 15 inch guns as a ship of the line.

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Beta Tester
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My favorite ship, really looking forward to its introduction in WOWS

 

Hope they do have the upgrade to the 15" guns 

 

Kapitan needs his ship !!!

Edited by Kapitan_Zur_See_Hoffmann

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2 Things:

 

1. When the Gneisenau was damage by a magnetic mine she was sent (after the Channel Dash) to the shipyard for repairs where she struck a submerged wreck that tore a monstrous hole in her hull. It was there she was being repaired. During that time, they were fitting her with 15" guns. However, because AH was pissed about how his 'ships' were performing he ordered all work on the Gneisenau stopped and to be scrapped. Here is a picture of the only thing remaining of the Gneisenau, one of her turrets. I'm of the mind that they may well give the Scharnhorst Class an upgrade to 15" guns since they were slated to have them.

 

2. The Scharnhorst lost her radar during her final battle to gun fire. She were forced to use the secondary gun director radars which was a few meters above the #2/#3 turrets. Her main radar was high atop the main mast. This greatly affected her ability to target and hit; however, she did put up a heck of a fight damaging a number of Brit ships until she was holed and her engines died. Which the Fleet Commander honored her and 36 survivors out of 1968 by saluting them in the BB's crews mess. This is what the Fleet Commander had to say about the Scharnhorst to his officers:

 

"Gentlemen, the battle against the Scharnhorst has ended in victory for us. I hope that any of you who are ever called upon to lead a ship into action against an opponent many times superior, will command your ship as gallantly as the Scharnhorst was commanded today."-Admiral Bruce Fraser

 

This video series is very well done and informative.

Battleship Scharnhorst Part 1

Battleship Scharnhorst Part 2

Edited by Ni_Tehn_Do

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Super Tester
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speaking of which, I found this:

 

4shfo6.jpg

 

The Scharnhorst with distributed 15 inch guns instead of projected pair of triple mount turrets packing em. Now as this may make the ship more viable, the problem now is that the foremast will be pushed backwards some more to accomodate the new guns. I am not entirely sure if this involves souping up the armor as well as she might slow down.

 

Now this solidifies my assumption that the Scharnhorst is the Mogami of the battleships as you can pack the 11 inch guns to rip cruisers apart and give destroyers a hard whacking OR you can still be effective with 15 inch guns as a ship of the line.

 

I beg to differ.

 

The fore mast originates from the superstructure so it stays. The aft mast doesn't affect the upgrade to 15"

 

In fact, I'm of the opinion that Scharnhorst and Gneisenau WERE designed to utilise the 15"

 

I used my 1/700 as proof of concept

 

BP0Ahq5.jpg

 

eYSbhBi.jpg

See that the fore mast comes from the super structure

 

56vr7Kk.jpg

See that the aft mast doesnt affects it either

 

XuX9RC3.jpg

I always had the suspicion that the 11" were too small. Now it's proven right

 

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Super Tester
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And I have no regrets in awakening your kitbash mode, makise.

 

Also, I don't think the hypothetical 15 inch guns in the AB-X placement will use the Bismarck class turret type for it but will use a unique turret to house the things although the Bismarck type turret has already took into account the recoil the things have. Either mess with the superstructure to make a small space for the turret to turn because it still looks like the Bismarck type turret will scrape against both fore and aft areas of superstructure.

 

Besides, adding three turrets that big may very well deduct a knot or two on the ship as well as extensive barbette increase since it will, after all, have a more heavier turret and guns on them. Modularity at the cost of penalties: 15 inch guns which enables her to increase her combat capacity at the cost of speed and load time or 11 inch guns which lets her thug cruisers but may not be at all best effective against typical battleships.

Edited by EvyL

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Super Tester
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Evyl... top most is Gneisenau

 

Which is strange since most of the plans I get bunked with was that Scharnhorst came out of the slipway with the mast there. Gneisenau got her mast moved back during her 1942 retrofit.

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Which is strange since most of the plans I get bunked with was that Scharnhorst came out of the slipway with the mast there. Gneisenau got her mast moved back during her 1942 retrofit.

 

They both looked the same like the top picture shows. However, Scharnhorst was damaged during sea trails because of her bow. She was fitted with the 'Atlantic bow' and retro-fitted with new equipment in-which they moved her mast back. Gneisenau didn't get the same refit. Her mast remained in its original area. That's how you could tell the two ships apart. After the Channel Dash, Gneisenau never put to sea again and was ordered dismantled by you know who.

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I remember having the honor of captaining this ship class in NF... Long beautiful lines, awesome top speed, great acceleration, and looked so bada** in the dock screen... I also had the Gneisenau and they were both my favorites in my collection... I do hope they'll bring her to play in WoWS, I may play the KM if these were around... Although I was quite pleased that the Konigsberg is around... First ship that taught me how to manual fire back then... Please tell me they're considering her... oh please, oh please, oh please... 

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I remember having the honor of captaining this ship class in NF... Long beautiful lines, awesome top speed, great acceleration, and looked so bada** in the dock screen... I also had the Gneisenau and they were both my favorites in my collection... I do hope they'll bring her to play in WoWS, I may play the KM if these were around... Although I was quite pleased that the Konigsberg is around... First ship that taught me how to manual fire back then... Please tell me they're considering her... oh please, oh please, oh please... 

 

According to the rumor mill, the Scharnhorst is supposed to be in the KM Battleship line probably tier 6 or 7. Not sure about the Gneisenau though. She could possibly be a premium ship much like the rumored Graf Spee is supposed to be.

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Super Tester
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Its quite sound that Scharnhorst will be at tier 7 since she's practically the newer iteration of battleship the Germans ever let loose from the slipway. And of course they're considering her. If that's something of note, you should remember that they already slated both Bismarck and Tirpitz at tier 8 at one announcement long ago.

 

As for the lead ship, I thought they moved the mast on the funnel during the refit of the new bow? She was damaged during the Channel Dash that I know but I didn't know the repositioning happened after that.

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