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TE_Deathskyz

Montana vs Yamato. A comprehensive look.

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Super Tester
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Once again I bring enlightenment from the WotLabs Forums, where we deny stat deniers. But this time they were enlightened by a glorious post by DeprivedPickle, one of NA's best BB players who did a look at the 2 tier 10 BBs and come to a conclusion. With his permission, I am reposting this from the NA Forums

 

All credit goes to DeprivedPickle

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/47103-yamato-vs-montana-question-answered-in-detail/

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So I get asked quite often through many channels, why do I run Yamato only right now instead of the Montana, and which of the two ships do I think is better at this point.

 

My short answer is the Yamato is better in almost every situation at the moment.

 

My long answer is going to be a little long and involve some video evidence to back it up so grab some popcorn and prepare yourself if you want to see why the Yamato wins Hands Down.

 

 

0.  My Expertise in Both Ships:

I have been playing since Closed Beta.  I had over 2400 games played by the end of CBT, with about 1000 of them being in Battleships. 

 

The Montana was my favorite ship in CBT with almost exactly 1 million experience earned, and the Yamato a close second with 600k experience, but since CBT, something has changed in the balance.

 

Currently I have 450 Yamato games and 97 Montana games.

Current Yamato Experience:

Q5U8U3A.jpg

Current Montana Experience:

 TVmtmdq.jpg

 

 

 

1.  Round Penetration and Damage:

So we all know that the Yamato does more damage per shell than the Montana does, but with an extra turret of 3, the Montana has a larger possible Alpha Damage with all 12 shells to the 9 shells of the Yamato.  Unfortunately, the 4th turret also involves showing a considerable broadside to your opponent.  So when both ships are reduced to using only the front turrets, like in many situations, the Yamato has a higher alpha strike. 

 

Lets also look at the sheer difference in penetrating power between the two ships:

 

 

As you can see, the Yamato can almost ignore angling because of the power of the shells.

 

 

 

2.  Anti-Air and Ability to Survive vs Carriers:

 

Edit:  Thanks to MikeHuntz aka. RenamedUser_1011432294  for helping me make the video

 

I hear a lot of people say that the Montana's AA balances out its lack in fire power with the Yamato.  I completely agree that the Montana has better AA, but the difference in AA is actually quite negligible.

 

I ran tests to try and show how the AA really makes 0 difference in terms of surviving longer when you are the target.  There is a place where the AA difference can help a lot in a team setting, but I don't know how to test or even appraise that.

 

Planes Shot Down vs Hakuryu

Yamato:   19  (video shows 23, but I am not including the 4 fighters I was fed at start)

Montana: 13

 

Planes Shot Down vs Midway

Yamato:   10

Montana: 20

 

Video of Carriers vs Yamato/Montana

 

 

Number of Torps/Bombs to Sink from a Midway

Yamato:     21 Torps, 8 Bombs

Montana:   16 Torps, 3 Bombs

  

Number of Torps/Bombs to Sink from a Hakuryu

Yamato:      20 Torps, 25 Bombs

Montana:    14 Torps, 14 Bombs

 

 yaXAEWH.jpg

 ZY4rhLX.jpg

 nibbCgM.jpg

 oj58iwI.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

From all of my test runs, the Montana will take more damage per volley than the Yamato.  Its really difficult to replicate all the time due to the RNG of the shells from the cruiser, but over time you can see the difference.  This makes a huge difference in games when multiple cruisers are firing on you.  The Montana is and feels so much weaker in comparison. 

 

The Yamato quite often had more volleys doing 0 damage to it on bad dispersion, where as those same volleys against the Montana would still do some damage.

 

With regards to heals; the Montana  is only able to heal 15,000 health to the Yamato's 20,000 health.

 

 

 

4.  Final Verdicts
 
So if we look at the ships from all angles:
Penetration of Rounds:
The Yamato is the clear winner of this round hands down.  It puts out more damage per shell, has better accuracy, and can penetrate ships at all angles.  Despite having an extra turret, the Montana just can not compete.
Advantage: Yamato
 
AA Ability:
The Montana is clearly a winner in the AA field, but its lack of armor and ability to withstand plane launched torps, actually puts it on par if not a little bit behind the Yamato.
Advantage: Neither.
 
Armor and Heal
The Yamato is able to heal for 20,000 to the 15,000 of the Montana, giving it a huge edge over 3-4 heals.  The armor also appears to be much thicker on the Yamato.  The Yamato withstands more and has a good lead in its ability to survive.
Advantage: Yamato
 
Yamato wins.
 
Feel free to discuss or ask any questions about the two ships.
 
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I hope you have found this thread useful and enlightening. Once again all credit goes to DeprivedPickle and his comprehensive studies and tests between the two tier 10 BBs.
 
An added benefit is that I asked if he was ok to respond to any questions you may have about the 2 BBs and their performance and I will try to collate the questions and send it to him so he can reply.
Edited by Deathskyz

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Super Tester
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This is what I'm refering to when I say that high tiers aren't balanced at all atm.

It's literally a one-to-one copy of the situation that occured during WoT's beta.

There are not enough vehicles of each class/nation to properly balance the few existing ones.


 

Basically you have the IS-7 Yamato and  Maus Montana, both with their basic stats changed to be somewhat capable of doing what other ships are going

to excel in later phases of the game's development.

Why doesn't WG Change These stats further to make them equals on the battlefield?

Well, why didn't WG throw out the tier IX IS-4, which only got a couple hundred hitpoints more when it was pushed up to Tier X?

Cause WG likes to make big changes instead of small updates, and thus we're sitting here, high tiers basically unplayable unless you're fine with the nonsense the game will throw at you.


 

I was fine with it in WoT... That_Other_Game and many other beta/alpha games I've played recently, thus I'm not fine with it anymore.

Especially in a product that costs money and is supposed to be released in 2 weeks.

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Super Tester
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Ugh. Yamato being able to heal more triggers muh historical accuracy, given the USN damage control was so much better than IJN. (Not to mention what happens when IJN ships lose their damage control teams)

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Alpha Tester
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Okay! It's time to give up on the American battleship tree!... :hiding:

 

More like there's little point in going past tier 6 in either. New Mex and Fuso are both powerful and perform better than their tier 7 replacements.

All that grinding for less and less balanced play and worse economy?

 

LOLNOPE

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Super Tester
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More like there's little point in going past tier 6 in either. New Mex and Fuso are both powerful and perform better than their tier 7 replacements.

All that grinding for less and less balanced play and worse economy?

 

LOLNOPE

 

I'd much rather stay on tier IV... tier VI has a huge chance of having a meet n' greet with the unbalanced mess that awaits above tier VI...

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Alpha Tester
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I'd much rather stay on tier IV... tier VI has a huge chance of having a meet n' greet with the unbalanced mess that awaits above tier VI...

 

Yes, there is that. I'm only at tiers 3-4 myself.

 

I was speaking more of a limit; doesn't matter how much I play, I'm not sure I'll bother going above tier 6 until I see signs of them addressing the multitude of issues.

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Member
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How about each module survivability ? Looking at the port view, it looks like Yamato AA and secondaries are bunched together. A few hits on that area will knocked out some of them.

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Member
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I don't get it, we have proved that the Montana is better than the Yamato in other forums yet the Yamato can rofl stomp the Montana easily. Time to give up on US battleships, War Gaming clearly want IJN BBs to perform better than US ships

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Funny how some ppl say IJN DD/CA/CV are better than USN, and now even BB.

Incoming IJN bias whine in 3...2...1... :hiding:

 

IJN DDs are better we all know that

Tier 7-9 U.S. CA are UP when compare to IJN counterpart 

IJN CVs are still better than many U.S. CVs (Langley, bogue, ranger and independence)even with the current nerf

Funny how all of those ships are on the U.S. Line and that's 50% of all of the U.S. CVs

Explain to me how this game is not IJN biased. U.S. Navy have all the worst ship right now, the only bad IJN ship that I can think of is the Kawachi and it is only a tier 3 ship.

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Alpha Tester
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This, well written, OP reinforces my stance that I plan to happily troll around tiers 5/6/7 for the foreseeable future. More players, more balance - except that I lost all 5 games played each of the last two nights :angry:

 

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Super Tester
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IJN DDs are better we all know that

Tier 7-9 U.S. CA are UP when compare to IJN counterpart

IJN CVs are still better than many U.S. CVs (Langley, bogue, ranger and independence)even with the current nerf

Funny how all of those ships are on the U.S. Line and that's 50% of all of the U.S. CVs

Explain to me how this game is not IJN biased. U.S. Navy have all the worst ship right now, the only bad IJN ship that I can think of is the Kawachi and it is only a tier 3 ship.

 

 

 

It's not bias though, take for example german tanks during WoT's beta and for about half a year after release.

They were effectively worse performing than russian tanks due to the HE damage System of the time negating most armor.

Just like US ships in WoWS they would still perform well, however they were at a minor disadvantage.

 

 

German tank performance was improved quite nicely once the HE system was reworked due to armor playing a bigger role.

 

 

I assume that the current situation in WoWS is quite similiar, certain mechanics don't work well with certain ships and because

WG loves doing this national trait thingy this will cause a further imbalance due to only having two nations.

Heck, why do you think very early CW used to be many IS-7s, maybe a Maus, and one or two T30s? :P

 

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Beta Tester
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Ugh. Yamato being able to heal more triggers muh historical accuracy, given the USN damage control was so much better than IJN. (Not to mention what happens when IJN ships lose their damage control teams)

 

Agreed, but early war IJN ships (Perhaps the Yamato still had her original crew) had excellent and highly trained crews who would surely be well rehearsed in damage control, it was only later in the war when the talent pool of capable IJN officers and ratings was diminished that damage control skills were lacking, especially the case with Taiho and Shinano.

 

Meanwhile the talent pool of capable USN officers and ratings would only increase for the USN, so it should be expected the USN damage control is better if going by historical accuracy.

 

In terms of the game balance, I'd probably say that the increasing Yamatos dispersion is a bad idea, many BB players dislike the RNG component of its gameplay and any further increases will only serve to further cause more strain. A more subtle change could be increasing the effectiveness (range and accuracy) of Montanas secondaries (since USN employed the best DP guns and radar/fire control),  buff AA range further and increase RoF of main battery very slightly (Des Moines style BB/ CA killer?)

Edited by Blitzkreig95

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Member
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Well.....just had a game in my mogami where my team had 3 Yamato's and the enemy had 3 Montana's. And no CVs for both team. No prizes for guessing who won.

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Beta Tester
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Going by usn bb hoping that will be better in higher tier is waste I guess,  time to stick with ijn bb, thanks for posting it.

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Beta Tester
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I have the chance to unlock Yamato on test server and play a couple of matches with her. I must say that she feels a bit sluggish, but oh boy that guns can really punch hard.....

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Well...so far I'm at fuso and near to nagato. The gems at JPN BB line are the Kongo and Fuso. Kawachi is worth the free XP to skip it (which I did). Myogi was okayish. Fuso is the benchmark of a great BB. I read that the Nagato is not as good as fuso. Amagi is a beast but still is less armoured than fuso. The Izumo is the baptism of fire before you are deemed worthy of a Yamato.

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Beta Tester
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Well...so far I'm at fuso and near to nagato. The gems at JPN BB line are the Kongo and Fuso. Kawachi is worth the free XP to skip it (which I did). Myogi was okayish. Fuso is the benchmark of a great BB. I read that the Nagato is not as good as fuso. Amagi is a beast but still is less armoured than fuso. The Izumo is the baptism of fire before you are deemed worthy of a Yamato.

 

Do you even do Kongo sniping? :D

Kongou is a beautiful ship. Fuso isnt bad either.

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