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Delphaeus

Tweaking the reward system

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At the moment you get rewards at the end of each match based on damage done, ships sunk, aircraft shot down, bases captured/defended.

 

I would like to suggest this be taken a little further to incorporate a lot of other actions (and some of these suggestions are taken directly from WoT)

 

1. Spotting. If you spot an enemy ship, you get a "spotting" bonus, as you are then relaying intelligence to your team (this would help both cv's and dd's)

2. Team damage due to your spotting. Following on from the last point, if you spot an enemy and someone else damages them/kills them, you should get rewarded for "assisting" (again for cv's and dd's)

3. Damage deflected/avoided. If you're taking a lot of fire from the enemy team, you should get a small reward for avoiding and/or deflecting the damage (ie: shots that don't penetrate your armour, or shots that land within 100m but miss you - Because the enemy team is attacking you, not your team mates). Damage taken should not get rewarded (mostly for bb's)

4. Capturing base points even when you abandon before capture. This is because it often forces the enemy to turn around and defend, rather than push the attack. This sudden reposturing of the enemy team can immensely help your team (think of a bb turning around and heading back to base, or a cv pulling bombers back to scout their own base)

5. Friendly ships hidden by smokescreen. If you would otherwise be spotted, but a smokescreen is preventing the spotting, then the deploying unit should be credited for deploying the smokescreen effectively.

 

Last and definitely least, I also think there should be an Achievement for killing an enemy before being spotted.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion. I hope you agree (or can add to my list), because there are so many things players can do that can help their team, but a lot of these actions are currently unrewarded

Edited by Delphaeus

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Beta Tester
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1&2: The thing is that, ships in WoWS have huge spotting range, and with the limited concealment available it makes spotting too easy. Only until later in the game would spotting makes large impact. Furthermore, the view range (acquisition range) parameter in WoWS is nowhere near as crucial as in WoT, almost every ship other than Destroyers have more than enough spotting range.

 

3: Nope. In WoT WG did consider exp bonus for tanking, but it wasn't implemented as it is too easy to be abused (players could just park their vehicles in sidescrape position and go afk, netting substantial exp without having to actually play the game. Similar thing could be abused by using BB in WoWS).

 

4: I'm not sure does gaining cap point without capturing gives any reward at all, but even if you do a full capture the reward is so pitiful it's prettymuch non-existent anyway.

 

5: This is really difficult to implement, because smoke screens in this game are neutral (as in your smoke is the same as enemy's smoke), so it's kinda difficult to tell. Also, since smoke applies both ways (it also blocks enemies from your vision), quite a number of occasions I see DD on my team unintentionally helping the enemy, so no. The least thing I want friendly DD to do is protecting enemies using their smokescreen, because friendly DD thinks he's being smart by covering ally team but infact he's doing the opposite.

 

6: That would be biased. BB always get spotted from firing, so do most Cruisers. Applying this bonus would be a huge bonus to IJN DD and CV in general. I object such unfairness.

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Alpha Tester
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that Other Warplanes games have a helluva lot of way to get Exp,

The difficulity to obtain this EXP wont stop player to contribute with them for the team

1. Spotting should have highest reward for spotting enemy DD which hardest to detect, but the CV should get penalty from spotting through their planes. Spotting enemy Bomber and Fighter should reward as well, but only a little.

2. Like what i said at above, BB target  and using CV Planes will least rewarding for this

3. Grazing score.... as Touhou fan... i love this one 

 

4: I'm not sure does gaining cap point without capturing gives any reward at all, but even if you do a full capture the reward is so pitiful it's prettymuch non-existent anyway.

.

 

The reward for Solo Capture base in encounter battle have highest reward

4. But i still don't like it as shooting does DD in our base is troubling enough

5. The reward should not big, as sometimes it will happen unintentionally, and the reward should only given when the allied CV become Unspotted from enemy cased by your Smoke

6. The achievement only works mostly by DD. and I don't really like it 

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Super Tester
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Adding spotting damage would probably make DD play a bit more viable. Rewarding players for covering allies with smoke would also help promote proper teamwork. Currently as it stands, an average CA player does the same amount of contribution to the team as the world's best DD player.

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Just to refute some of your arguments:

 

1&2: If spotting is too easy, then i dare you to count how long it takes for anyone to be spotted at the beginning of an ocean map (where there is no cover), especially when you don't have a CV on your side. The game only starts after the first spot. Do you know how many times a BB or CA has killed something outside of their spotting range, while i was waiting for my torpedoes to hit the same target? So they are getting the xp for killing, and i am getting nothing for enabling the kill.

 

3. a) it doesn't have to be a lot of exp, and 

b) You can't effectively angle armour in WoWS, due to a number of factors including dive bombers, torpedoes (air and ship launched), plunging fire etc. Anyone that AFK's will get killed in short order.

 

4. No point to argue here

 

5. You have some good points here. Although a good dd knows that after deploying a smokescreen over his allies he has to go in front of the smokescreen - but then he would get the spotting bonus in steps 1 and 2.

 

6. It was an achievement, not a bonus. Today I had a mission to kill 4 aircraft in one battle, which is nearly impossible as an IJN DD, so i decided to use a IJN CV. If people want the achievements they need to swap ships. its as easy as that!

 

 

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Honestly, the problem with rewarding spotting is basically how it works in the game. DDs have the lowest sight range, but are frequently the first to make contact with enemy ships due to their high acceleration and maneuverability. However, if they break contact with enemy ships and once friendly battleships move in to under 16km of other battleships, the bulk of the spotting exp is going to go to them, in terms of spotting cruisers and battleships. That, and aircraft carriers who can keep ships lit up with their squadrons.

 

As for exp for shots avoided...that's basically asking to be given exp for favourable RNG rolls. There's a lot less skill involved in avoiding/deflecting shots in WoWS as compared to WoT.

 

I believe #5 is already in the works, or at least the devs have talked about adding it.

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Adding spotting damage would probably make DD play a bit more viable. Rewarding players for covering allies with smoke would also help promote proper teamwork. Currently as it stands, an average CA player does the same amount of contribution to the team as the world's best DD player.

 

Wow, apparently you've never played with a good DD player...

 

I'm not saying i'm the worlds best, but i think i'm reasonably good... and my record so far is 5 ships sunk and about 140,000 damage in a Tier V game (I've actually done this twice so far). The problem is that a lot of DD players don't know how to use it to its strengths. I actually had to tell an IJN DD to stop using his main guns once... he didn't like using torpedoes :/

 

 

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Super Tester
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Wow, apparently you've never played with a good DD player...

 

I'm not saying i'm the worlds best, but i think i'm reasonably good... and my record so far is 5 ships sunk and about 140,000 damage in a Tier V game (I've actually done this twice so far). The problem is that a lot of DD players don't know how to use it to its strengths. I actually had to tell an IJN DD to stop using his main guns once... he didn't like using torpedoes :/

 

*sees that damage done on a Minekaze*

 

No wonder...

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Beta Tester
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Wow, apparently you've never played with a good DD player...

 

I'm not saying i'm the worlds best, but i think i'm reasonably good... and my record so far is 5 ships sunk and about 140,000 damage in a Tier V game (I've actually done this twice so far). The problem is that a lot of DD players don't know how to use it to its strengths. I actually had to tell an IJN DD to stop using his main guns once... he didn't like using torpedoes :/

 

You missed the point.

 

A Good DD player "May" Get a Good result because it depends how bad the enemies are or how lucky you are with your Torps.

A Good CA/CL player, however, is pretty much guaranteed to have at least Decent game given he didn't get insta-nuked by a BB. 

Edited by Alvin1020

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Honestly, the problem with rewarding spotting is basically how it works in the game. DDs have the lowest sight range, but are frequently the first to make contact with enemy ships due to their high acceleration and maneuverability. However, if they break contact with enemy ships and once friendly battleships move in to under 16km of other battleships, the bulk of the spotting exp is going to go to them, in terms of spotting cruisers and battleships. That, and aircraft carriers who can keep ships lit up with their squadrons.

 

How about removing my first recommendation but leaving in my second recommendation. This would encourage people to help out their team, rather than just go for the kill themselves.

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You missed the point.

 

A Good DD player "May" Get a Good result because it depends how bad the enemies are or how lucky you are with your Torps.

A Good CA/CL player, however, is pretty much guaranteed to have at least Decent game given he didn't get insta-nuked by a BB. 

 

If what you said is true, then i missed the point because I didn't think anyone would be so blind... basically you think there is no skill at all to playing a DD. People just spam torps and hope for the best?

 

A good DD player has to manoeuvre into a good position within torpedo range, stay undetected by the enemy, and then calculate where he thinks the ship will be in 15-20 seconds time. Its halfway to a game of chess, trying to judge how your enemies will think. Yes torps do a lot of damage, but that's because they take a hell of a lot more skill than spamming HE, where you only have to judge 2-5 seconds ahead of the enemy.

 

But we're getting off topic here.

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If what you said is true, then i missed the point because I didn't think anyone would be so blind... basically you think there is no skill at all to playing a DD. People just spam torps and hope for the best?

 

A good DD player has to manoeuvre into a good position within torpedo range, stay undetected by the enemy, and then calculate where he thinks the ship will be in 15-20 seconds time. Its halfway to a game of chess, trying to judge how your enemies will think. Yes torps do a lot of damage, but that's because they take a hell of a lot more skill than spamming HE, where you only have to judge 2-5 seconds ahead of the enemy.

 

Duh, Did I ever said "DD take no skill at all"? If you can find such quote I will gift you an Atago.

 

My meaning is in fact, DD is harder to play and had less consistent reward.

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A Good DD player "May" Get a Good result because it depends how bad the enemies are or how lucky you are with your Torps.

 

Duh, Did I ever said "DD take no skill at all"? If you can find such quote I will gift you an Atago.

 

Ok, I read that first sentence as

 

A Good dd player may get a good result if:

a) the enemy team is bad

b) the dd gets some lucky shots

 

If you didn't intend it to be read that way, then surely you can see that it could benefit from better wording :)

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That's the problem with DD play, especially at the higher levels. Landing hits with torpedoes requires an enemy player/target to be bad or not paying attention, and that you or your torpedoes aren't somehow spotted by the huge clouds of aircraft flying over. 

 

Looking at the average DD achievements on the server - it's currently a lot harder for DDs to contribute (and be rewarded) as much as any other class, simply because the method of gameplay they utilize simply isn't viable past certain tiers. Hence benli's comment.

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That's the problem with DD play, especially at the higher levels. Landing hits with torpedoes requires an enemy player/target to be bad or not paying attention, and that you or your torpedoes aren't somehow spotted by the huge clouds of aircraft flying over. 

 

Looking at the average DD achievements on the server - it's currently a lot harder for DDs to contribute (and be rewarded) as much as any other class, simply because the method of gameplay they utilize simply isn't viable past certain tiers. Hence benli's comment.

 

That makes a little more sense then. I haven't played higher tier battles... I started playing tier 6 and realised how much i disliked the new playstyle of the Mutsuki, So I went back to the Minekaze (T5) and levelled bb's so i could see if i would like playing cv's.

 

I love torps because it's not a "lets shoot and get a hit" mechanic like most games today, it's a "lets think about where this guy might go and fire there" type mechanic. I also love them because it doesn't get you spotted so you're always trying to walk the thin line of "lets get in torp range but not in spotting range".  It makes you use your grey cells more... Then everything goes out the window when you see that "detected" warning and a usn dd is steaming right at you, so you start weaving crazily while shells from everywhere land all around you. It's such a fun game because of that.

 

If the problems exist as you say they do, maybe plane spotting or torpedo mechanics need to be worked on... But i'm not suggesting that, because I honestly don't really mind what happens at the higher tiers. I'm happy where i am halfway up the ladder.

 

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Super Tester
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View PostDelphaeus, on 30 August 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

I love torps because it's not a "lets shoot and get a hit" mechanic like most games today, it's a "lets think about where this guy might go and fire there" type mechanic. I also love them because it doesn't get you spotted so you're always trying to walk the thin line of "lets get in torp range but not in spotting range".  It makes you use your grey cells more... Then everything goes out the window when you see that "detected" warning and a usn dd is steaming right at you, so you start weaving crazily while shells from everywhere land all around you. It's such a fun game because of that.

If only everyone thinks the way you do... + 1 for you anyway...

 

You should still try (to get used to) Mutsuki, you would still cooperate and/or go against ships of the higher tier, knowing the mindset of all kinds of ship is important after all, know thy self and know thy enemy...

 

Besides, when you got used to it, you might think to yourself "Actually, it's not that bad, let me give it a bit more push to get Hatsuharu."

 

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