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TE_Deathskyz

HE Shells and Belt Armor. What can be changed?

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Super Tester
1,459 posts
6,811 battles

So I was playing with Harcoo and iLordShade earlier and I brought up a point.

 

When HE shells hit my belt armor (especially at the waterline). Why in the seven seas does my deck catch fire?

Just... Think about it for a moment. It makes no logical sense that hitting on of the more heavily armored portions should cause my deck to catch on fire.

 

Yes this is an arcade game but this can and IMO should be rebalanced.

 

So whats my ultimate point?

HE shells hitting belt armor SHOULD NOT cause fires.

 

How would this impact the game? Not much really.

Long range shots from cruisers will still set your decks on fire. Atlantas and Clevelands and Mogamis will still set you ablaze.

Ok. Now you are probably saying then why bother changing this then?

 

2 Reasons.

1) Cuts down unreasonable and downright weird fires.

2) Cruisers (especially high tier 203mms) must make a more skill based choice. Do I fire HE at its superstructure or load AP?

 

Gameplay shouldn't be affected too much. However, it makes CA Captains come to a decision on their line of attack.

If I stay at a distance my HE will more or less set him ablaze comfortably. Nothing much will change.

However, should I close the distance, do I fire HE at the superstructure or load AP and aim for the bow/stern belts?

 

In summary, this change would make players aim more with their HE rounds rather than HURR DURR YOU ON FIYAH BIG EXP BIG CREDITS.

This change would not compromise the core fundamentals of how CAs attack BBs. They can still wither it down with fires but are now made to think out their line of attack.

Hitting the superstructure would give the players the best chance of setting them on fire with the bow and stern decks next.

Hitting the belt armor should either not set the ship on fire or have a very marginal chance of setting the ship on fire.

 

Thoughts. Comments. Suggestions?

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Beta Tester
2,083 posts
5,169 battles

hitting armored belt of cruiser with HE should  very low damage and no damage to bb at all with 0% fire chances. it will force cruiser  to adjust their shoot and learn where should they shoot properly instead of just mindlessly spamming HE shells.

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Super Tester
1,677 posts

So I was playing with Harcoo and iLordShade earlier and I brought up a point.

 

When HE shells hit my belt armor (especially at the waterline). Why in the seven seas does my deck catch fire?

Just... Think about it for a moment. It makes no logical sense that hitting on of the more heavily armored portions should cause my deck to catch on fire.

 

Yes this is an arcade game but this can and IMO should be rebalanced.

 

So whats my ultimate point?

HE shells hitting belt armor SHOULD NOT cause fires.

 

How would this impact the game? Not much really.

Long range shots from cruisers will still set your decks on fire. Atlantas and Clevelands and Mogamis will still set you ablaze.

Ok. Now you are probably saying then why bother changing this then?

 

2 Reasons.

1) Cuts down unreasonable and downright weird fires.

2) Cruisers (especially high tier 203mms) must make a more skill based choice. Do I fire HE at its superstructure or load AP?

 

Gameplay shouldn't be affected too much. However, it makes CA Captains come to a decision on their line of attack.

If I stay at a distance my HE will more or less set him ablaze comfortably. Nothing much will change.

However, should I close the distance, do I fire HE at the superstructure or load AP and aim for the bow/stern belts?

 

In summary, this change would make players aim more with their HE rounds rather than HURR DURR YOU ON FIYAH BIG EXP BIG CREDITS.

This change would not compromise the core fundamentals of how CAs attack BBs. They can still wither it down with fires but are now made to think out their line of attack.

Hitting the superstructure would give the players the best chance of setting them on fire with the bow and stern decks next.

Hitting the belt armor should either not set the ship on fire or have a very marginal chance of setting the ship on fire.

 

Thoughts. Comments. Suggestions?

 

HE blast on belt armor insta-burn ships? now that I think of it I did see those things occasionally, especially on ships that have slightly higher gun arcs. I actually have no flippin idea where the belt armor blasts since I tend to think that where the HE goes boom is where the deck railings are to prevent man overboard issues on ships.

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Senior Moderator
4,798 posts
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Part 1:

 

your deck is generally covered in a wooden sheath in this era - that's what is burning most of the time.

Along with a lot of flammable materials that are on the upper decks that will ignite with the flame caused by HE shells exploding.

 

Part 2:

 

agreed - the % chance should be a lot lower than it currently is now.

Unfortunately the game mechanics are set on a per shell basis so ships with a high RoF and lots of guns negate the per shell % by providing the statistical average chance of the fire every salvo or two

 

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[SGC]
Super Tester
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Part 1:

Your deck is generally covered in a wooden sheath in this era - that's what is burning most of the time.

Along with a lot of flammable materials that are on the upper decks that will ignite with the flame caused by HE shells exploding.

 

Part 2:

Agreed - the % chance should be a lot lower than it currently is now.

Unfortunately the game mechanics are set on a per shell basis so ships with a high RoF and lots of guns negate the per shell % by providing the statistical average chance of the fire every salvo or two

 

 

Aye. Which is why I'm suggesting to reward players for hitting areas of the ship prone to fires mainly the fore and aft decks, and the superstructure.

This in turn will make CAs slightly more difficult to kill BBs, but can still hold their own.

 

BBs in turn will get some slight relief from HE spam especially at closer range where CAs tend to hit their belt armor.

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Beta Tester
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Aye. Which is why I'm suggesting to reward players for hitting areas of the ship prone to fires mainly the fore and aft decks, and the superstructure.

This in turn will make CAs slightly more difficult to kill BBs, but can still hold their own.

 

BBs in turn will get some slight relief from HE spam especially at closer range where CAs tend to hit their belt armor.

 

right now i don't have much problem with BB because HE don't deal damage their armored belt (not sure about the fire chance though because i avoid on trying to hit the belt as much as possible). but on cruiser to cruiser action, HE deal damage to cruiser anywhere you hit them. 

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[SGC]
Super Tester
1,459 posts
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right now i don't have much problem with BB because HE don't deal damage their armored belt (not sure about the fire chance though because i avoid on trying to hit the belt as much as possible). but on cruiser to cruiser action, HE deal damage to cruiser anywhere you hit them. 

 

The main point isn't about rebalancing tthe damage of HE blasts but rather negating its side effects of fire. Players can still fire HE and deal damage but won't get to set their enemies on fire if they hit the armored belt.

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Alpha Tester
512 posts
308 battles

But do battleships really need more buffs? 

 

Maybe if cruiser AP was buffed to be less useless (when I last played the only time it was useful was when other cruisers were giving you their broadside, otherwise HE offers better effective DPM), but otherwise I just can't see how making battleships even more powerful against cruisers would be a positive change for balance, and it's a game by WG, realism is entirely inconsequential.

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Alpha Tester
2,150 posts
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Aye. Which is why I'm suggesting to reward players for hitting areas of the ship prone to fires mainly the fore and aft decks, and the superstructure.

This in turn will make CAs slightly more difficult to kill BBs, but can still hold their own.

 

BBs in turn will get some slight relief from HE spam especially at closer range where CAs tend to hit their belt armor.

 

You might remember I suggested they move away from the individual shell having a % and add a 'required threshold'.

 

So what's that? The idea that you need ENOUGH of them hitting to trigger the fire chance %, presumably over a period of time. Doing so would allow further graduation of fire chances, as you could alter that threshold to taste.

 

Right now there's a blunt instrument of your chance of catching on fire being affected by the shell (greatly) and the tier (significantly). Class should play a part, too, if it doesn't already.

 

But I think the devs are wedded to their idea of fires everywhere. And the skill that reduces the chance does so by such a pathetic amount it's laughable it's a level 2 skill.

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Alpha Tester
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Finally, someone has spoken the truth!!!

Special Reward:

 

 

 

How many times do mods have to tell you, LEWD AT THAT LVL IS NOT ALLOWED

 

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Alpha Tester
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Like steeltrap said which I already suggest that somewhere for about... wut? 4 times?
The chance for HE causing fire on the ship is quite strange, except the ship have thin Belt. The fire shouldn't appear that easy. This exclude Dive Bomber HE (which still need balancing as well)

Edited by Harpoon01

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Beta Tester
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Fire need some changes, but it seems like affecting BB's Balance a bit too much.

 

After all, Fires are the main ways from a Cruiser to "Scare off" a BB - HE Spam is annoying - but BBs are perfectly fine as it is.

 

Don't really know, Devs may need to completely rework it like what Steel proposed - But I doubt they will.

Edited by Alvin1020

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Beta Tester
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I don't play battleships. I don't like their style of gameplay.

 

But OP has a point. It is odd that shells I fire that hit the armor belt causes the deck to catch fire.

 

It's like in World of Tanks, where back in the day shooting a German transmission would somehow cause the engine to catch fire.

 

I don't see a problem if they change it such that HE shells don't cause fires when they hit the armor belt. I'd just have to aim either at the superstructure, or keep my distance and make it rain.

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Member
161 posts
5,905 battles

Seriously, the fires chance % need rebalancing to make ammo choice matters more.

 

I usually plays BBs aggressively when ever I encounter CAs without torps to counter BB shells dispersions by closing, this lower the chance of CAs with high arc lobbing shells on my superstructure thus lower the chances of getting fires on my ship. The problem is this didn't work, no matter where those HE shells land it'll catch fire anyway.

 

Another point I am concerned with is the amount of fire on a ship. CAs with high RoF tends to turn BBs into tinderboxes. Once in a span of one minute in my Nagato I caught 8 fires simultaneously from a Cleveland at about 14km lobbing range, 4 before I use damage control and another 4 after my damage control wears off. The amount of damage from fire is pretty insane from my view.

Edited by HeidimarieW

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