Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
YourTarget

Can torpedo fire system be more realistic?

27 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Member
21 posts
566 battles

Well, if WG wants historically accurate they should make the Torpedoes be able to only fire within medium range or long range because in real life Torpedo can be bounced off the ship's hull at close to very close range due to not enough speed to explode the head of the torpedo. Also if the ship's hull is angling properly (front of ship facing torpedo) it also can bounce the torpedo away which is more fair and fun for many players.

 

Just Note: I also noticed torpedo bombers from CV can dropped a torpedoes in a very narrow water between me and the very close island..

 

Just hope WG will read it..:hiding:

Edited by YourTarget

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
982 posts

Can you explain how your suggestions will make the game better as opposed to the current system?

 

Keep in mind that this is a game, not a simulation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
266 posts
3,486 battles

gameplay over realism

 

Torpedoes be able to only fire within medium range or long range because in real life Torpedo can be bounced off the ship's hull at close to very close range

 

This is actually present in the game already but you need to be VERY close for dud torps to happen

 

 

also to correct, the reason why torpedoes won't detonate at close range is because it takes a bit of time to get armed after being launched. Not because of the speed to cause the explosion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
21 posts
566 battles

gameplay over realism

 

 

This is actually present in the game already but you need to be VERY close for dud torps to happen

 

 

also to correct, the reason why torpedoes won't detonate at close range is because it takes a bit of time to get armed after being launched. Not because of the speed to cause the explosion

 

Alright, thanks for your advise! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,040 posts
1,326 battles

at least make the angling works

 

Then ship's turn abilities would be nerfed for balance purpose.

Ships that use Torpedo as their main weapon are under-performing right now (exclude lower tiers where players don't know what is happening around them), they don't need even more nerfs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
575 posts
5,354 battles

Can you explain how your suggestions will make the game better as opposed to the current system?

 

Keep in mind that this is a game, not a simulation.

 

I know of a few things that will improve defense against how torpedoes are used in this game.

 

1. Increase the minimum engage run from 200m to 1000m. This would mean no DD or CA could be inside of 1km and dump it's torpedo load on another ship and they do damage. They'd only smash into the ships doing nothing.

2. Torpedo bombers dropping torpedoes from 100m above the water and less than 1.5 km from a target needs to be fixed. The need to drop them from less than 25m and be at least 5km from a ship. No, and I mean no pilot of a torpedo plane ever got as close as you see these planes in this game do. They would be obliterated by the ships AA. Case in point at Midway the first wave of US torpedo planes that did not get shot down by Zeros were shot out of the sky by the IJN CV's AA and their escorts. IIRC, all of Hornet's dive bombers and torpedo planes were destroyed with only 1 survivor.

3. Where they buffed the BB's main guns accuracy at 3km or less, they need to do to AA to make them more effective against Torpedo and Bomber planes. They can fly in and drop their load without fear of losing a plane unless you have the AA defense measure. AA from ships did an effective job on planes during WW2 on both sides.

4. Spotting mechanic on Torpedoes needs some serious work. At this point, they are using submarine mechanics for torpedoes because they are seen a few 100m by the targeted ship. Surfaced fired torpedoes left a wake from the firing ship because of the amount of exhaust pouring out of the back in of these weapons. Modern day weapons don't use screws as these old torpedoes do. They use a rotator/stator type propulsion system...think of a jet engine type system. Torpedoes fired from ship should be spotted at least 2km from the targeted ship or more. Especially if they are air dropped. The Enterprise was able to dodge 3 full torpedo squadron's torpedo attack on her by seeing them coming in, dropping these weapons, and maneuver from them. They had a multitude of lookouts with powerful binoculars for spotting planes and torpedoes high up on the ships. If you look at the ships in port in this game, you can see these lookout stations every where. The higher you are on the ship the further you can see. There should be some similar ability of this in game.

5. RNG should work against torpedoes in a manner it does against rounds fired. There should be a chance the torpedo that hits the ship is a dud or just fails to work as designed. This problem plagued all sides during the war even with modifications to improve them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
6,604 posts
2,477 battles

Let's make torpedoes realistic as well, where I could rekt you all for every hit (especially you Realistic Whiners)

 

We all knew how dangerous all IJN torpedoes were

Edited by Harpoon01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
84 posts
1,414 battles

The torpedo butthurt is stronk in this thread, typical whinging brought about by inadequate counter play.

Learn to play against DDs and CV airpower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
404 posts
1,148 battles

 

I know of a few things that will improve defense against how torpedoes are used in this game.

They're nonsense, just a few things that makes Destroyers absolutely useless

 

1. Increase the minimum engage run from 200m to 1000m. This would mean no DD or CA could be inside of 1km and dump it's torpedo load on another ship and they do damage. They'd only smash into the ships doing nothing.

Actually, DD seldom launch their torpedo at less than 1km

you deserve the hit if you let him doing his

and it isn't really effective against torpedo

 

2. Torpedo bombers dropping torpedoes from 100m above the water and less than 1.5 km from a target needs to be fixed. The need to drop them from less than 25m and be at least 5km from a ship. No, and I mean no pilot of a torpedo plane ever got as close as you see these planes in this game do. They would be obliterated by the ships AA. Case in point at Midway the first wave of US torpedo planes that did not get shot down by Zeros were shot out of the sky by the IJN CV's AA and their escorts. IIRC, all of Hornet's dive bombers and torpedo planes were destroyed with only 1 survivor.

at least 5km away and 25m above?

I remember that War Thunder says that the best distance for launching torpedo from the air is 1km

I'm sure torpedo bomber doesn't drop that far away in reality

also, think about how long 5km is in game

it'll never hit the target if you launch that far away

 

3. Where they buffed the BB's main guns accuracy at 3km or less, they need to do to AA to make them more effective against Torpedo and Bomber planes. They can fly in and drop their load without fear of losing a plane unless you have the AA defense measure. AA from ships did an effective job on planes during WW2 on both sides.

close range accuracy buff for BB has been done

buff AA? BB have had good AA, what do you want?

you wanna solo and take down all bombers like an iowa/montana?

that's unfair for CV, they won't be able to kill both BB or CA

and this worsen DD's life as CV will change their target to DD

 

4. Spotting mechanic on Torpedoes needs some serious work. At this point, they are using submarine mechanics for torpedoes because they are seen a few 100m by the targeted ship. Surfaced fired torpedoes left a wake from the firing ship because of the amount of exhaust pouring out of the back in of these weapons. Modern day weapons don't use screws as these old torpedoes do. They use a rotator/stator type propulsion system...think of a jet engine type system. Torpedoes fired from ship should be spotted at least 2km from the targeted ship or more. Especially if they are air dropped. The Enterprise was able to dodge 3 full torpedo squadron's torpedo attack on her by seeing them coming in, dropping these weapons, and maneuver from them. They had a multitude of lookouts with powerful binoculars for spotting planes and torpedoes high up on the ships. If you look at the ships in port in this game, you can see these lookout stations every where. The higher you are on the ship the further you can see. There should be some similar ability of this in game.

You're totally [content removed] nonsense, the statement is historically incorrect

torpedo are spotted 1km-2.1km away, depending on which ship launch the torpedo

LdqZaSB.png

look! You have 12seconds to evade the torpedo, even a sluggish BB can easily dodge it

you still request for more? this is ridiculous!

One more thing to add, historically, the high tier IJN DD uses Oxygen Torpedo

this kind of torpedo uses oxygen as exhaust gas which can be dissolved by water

You can hardly spot such creeping torpedo

according to reality, the torpedo spotting distance should be reduced, instead of increasing

 

5. RNG should work against torpedoes in a manner it does against rounds fired. There should be a chance the torpedo that hits the ship is a dud or just fails to work as designed. This problem plagued all sides during the war even with modifications to improve them.

well, then shells are possible to fail exploding too

what will you feel when you fire a whole salvo of large calibre AP on a CA and there's no damage due to RNG?

same for torpedo, they suffer even more because of their longer reload time

Your suggestion are the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen

sorry, but please don't highlight it

 

Profanity. Warning issued.

~Twisted0ne

Edited by Twisted0ne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
575 posts
5,354 battles

Your suggestion are the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen

sorry, but please don't highlight it

 

When you have 15 years of naval service as a REAL TORPEDOMAN come back and talk to me without being a condescending arse. Get some time in service before you call things stupid and learn from real life experiences instead of pulling them off Wiki. I've forgotten more about naval weapons, torpedoes and missiles, than you'll ever learn about from books or games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
404 posts
1,148 battles

 

When you have 15 years of naval service as a REAL TORPEDOMAN come back and talk to me without being a condescending arse. Get some time in service before you call things stupid and learn from real life experiences instead of pulling them off Wiki. I've forgotten more about naval weapons, torpedoes and missiles, than you'll ever learn about from books or games.

 

I said Don't highlight it!

 

back to topic

Okay, I don't talk about reality then

Do you know what is game balancing?

This is a game, not a real warfare

every game object should be fair, regardless how effective are they in reality

 

your suggestions will make the ships that uses torpedo as their main weapon become useless

launching aerial torpedo 5km away with >2km spotting distance guarantee 0 hit

forcing DD to launch at more than 1km, with more than 2km torpedo spotting distance, also guarantee an extremely low hit rate

look at how maneuverable the battleships are

 

If you want reality, go back to the navy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
695 posts
2,153 battles

Guys please keep is civil.  Every 1 is allowed there opinion and not every 1 will agree but please refrain from personal attacks to get your point across. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LLBC]
Super Tester
750 posts
3,314 battles

Torpedo bombers dropping torpedoes from 100m above the water and less than 1.5 km from a target needs to be fixed.

 

You know what, I think your right. Torpedo runs should be 100% historically accurate. I propose using USN training c. late 1944 as a starting point for the USN CVs - torpedoes should dropped from an altitude of 800ft @ 260kts (shouldn't be an issue for the mid-high teir USN CVs with a historical loadout). Torpedos should be released 1400 yards from the target with an actual arming run of 400 yards. Why? Cos' realism

 

pass the popcorn please

 

Cmiel5U.gif

 

This popcorn is mine. ALL MINE.

j2DIvoG.jpg

Edited by Gunduck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
802 posts

 

When you have 15 years of naval service as a REAL TORPEDOMAN come back and talk to me without being a condescending arse. Get some time in service before you call things stupid and learn from real life experiences instead of pulling them off Wiki. I've forgotten more about naval weapons, torpedoes and missiles, than you'll ever learn about from books or games.

 

Cool story bro. Please tell me how your experience with modern munitions correlates to an arcade game based around WW1 and WW2 ships and weapon systems where the impact of realism is minimal.

 

Come back the amount of games you've played isn't the same as the years you served IRL, and then we'll talk about how your ideas are create more imbalance then balance, don't take into account that the game does not use real world scaling and in some places, are ludicrous. 

 

EDIT:

 well, then shells are possible to fail exploding too

what will you feel when you fire a whole salvo of large calibre AP on a CA and there's no damage due to RNG?

same for torpedo, they suffer even more because of their longer reload time

 

I Guess I should point out that this is already a thing. HE rounds can hit and do no damage, AP can bounce off armour or do minimal damage when passing though a ships superstructure, and Torpedoes dropped too close will do no damage. Torpedoes and shells as listed in the dock screen for any ship will only show the maximum damage that can be dealt; RNG already takes into account that a shell might not have as much explosive in it, or a torpedo hits a torpedo bulge and does no damage.

Edited by Counterflak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
420 posts
20 battles

According to wikipedia ww2 torps detonate by 3 mechanisms. Still i probably wrong at telling you the details, since i'm lazy i just tell you from what i read once back there, you can check at english wikipedia by yourself.

1. Magnetic sensor

This will detonate the torpedo just before reaching a metallic object (ship) at specific range. A torpedo blown by magnetic sensor deals the optimum damage. It would induce the best underwater explosion effect. The explosion will create water bubbles, which when touching ship's hull, it would stress the ships structure, creating a tremor that can dislodge bolts and engine out from its place, fractures, and hole at the punctured side. And if the ship is small, compared to the power of the explosion, it could not only broken the keel, but break the ship in half. It is why some torpedo like DMU-90 has statement like it would destroy a ship within 5000 tonnage or less. And please do not compare the power of this small but modern torpedo with the old big WW2 torpedoes because it was designed to defeat larger ships namely BB, instead SS.

2. Gyroscopic sensor

This would detonate the torpedo when running too deep or veering in circle in order to avoid friendly fire.

3. Contact

When magnetic sensor failed to do the job, the last resort is this. Will detonate when touching something. The damage caused by this not as great as underwater explosion at its optimum range.

 

If a torpedo blown by magnetic sensor and inducing an underwater explosion, armor angling means nothing. It is not the power of a sharp bolt to puncture, but an underwater explosion. Simply speaking a very powerful HE that can wreck even the internal part of the ship. While when the torpedo exploded by contact, it just ordinary HE explosion.

 

To add more, if you want more realism with torpedo. Even WW2 torps were need to program before launch. I don't have an idea how it was done, maybe to adjust its running depth or gyro setting, failsafe mechanism, or any, but it requires quite a time to launch. But when it does, I-58 captain dare to said if his torpedoes were impossible to miss a certain cruiser. Japanese torpedo didn't leave a white trail while running back then, it was almost impossible to detect until it is very very close.

 

So, WoWs torpedoes are actually less powerful than IRL torpedo. Even air dropped torps at WoWs from tier 4 to 10 only has 8-9k potential damage when i looked to WoWs Wiki. I do think this is Minekaze or lower fault. Torps at tier 6 or lower are spammable, 24s Umikaze torp, don't you remember the horror when driving south carolina back there? Although the torp is slow and easily evaded, also has low power. But the most important is Unlimited Torpedo Works. Higher tier DD has longer reload, thats not historically accurate as Japanese (some), has kijihatsusoutensouchi, power assisted automatic torpedo loader. But of course, no DD carries unlimited torps. It was my first amazement when playing this game, unlimited torpedo supply.

 

To add more, why people angry when got hit by torpedo is because he/ she got hit by something that supposedly (in mind) coud be easily evaded. It is slow, can be driven in between. It is unavoidable when it is appears too close for the ship to response, and want to blame that. It is a hard reality that some people wont accept in and a problem that i do think any developer could solve when the keyword are 'action game' and 'as historically as possible', which contradicting each other. Although i don't remember WG stick with the latter.

 

15 years torpedoman IRL is has no relevance either, you also need to be there at the target ship and survive to tell the half of the fact needed to answer this. Is 15 years enough? lol. Sorry it is a joke. Instead, try to use different ships. Low tier ships have different play style than higher tier. That's now i'm with Mutsuki and Colorado. Feels different with Minekaze and New Mexico, which also different with South Carolina and Umikaze. And always be careful when driving into close gaps between islands and turning points. Or perhaps do not, until all enemy torpedo spewing ships are gone from the map.

Edited by Zwelivelle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
8 posts
2,125 battles

I feel like torpedo gameplay now fits the game. Gameplay trumps realism, after all. And let's face it - if you really wanted realism, you're playing the wrong game.

 

Fair warning though - I've only really played destroyers, cruisers and carriers, so I can't speak for battleship captains - I only got up to the Kongou in CBT, and I only have the Myogi and Wyoming at this point.

 

I've never really felt upset or irritated or angry when I get hit by ship launched torpedoes - I mean, DDs tend to give their positions away. Either your team's DDs spot them, they fire on passing aircraft, or they pop a smoke for no reason whatsoever. If you see signs of a destroyer, and continue on your course without making any form of evasion whatsoever, then well. You really don't have anyone else to blame do you?


As for long range torpedo strikes, well. There's a reason I let someone else take the lead. :P But in all seriousness, the ships in the lead are most likely to be either destroyers, in which case the torpedo strike is unlikely to be targetting him, or cruisers, which have enough agility to dodge the strike once they see the warning.

 

I do think there is something to be said for buffing close range AA though. I have lost count of the number of times enemy carriers have flown their torpedo planes right up to me and dropped their torpedoes at point blank range - making successful evasion of the entire spread close to impossible, and getting away scott-free because either my team had no carrier of our own, or our team's carriers were engaged else where. 

 

Though buffing close range AA would prove problematic for dive bombers, because they HAVE to get close to bust one out, so that presents another problem. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,126 posts

what I want to see form torpedoes is.... it's action.

 

 

I want to see it pop out of it's tube puff!, jump into water splash!! and fuuummmm!! swim away. that all, the rest is good enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
4,163 posts
1,874 battles

what I want to see form torpedoes is.... it's action.

 

 

I want to see it pop out of it's tube puff!, jump into water splash!! and fuuummmm!! swim away. that all, the rest is good enough.

 

They do that, actually. Have you got "Animate Small Objects" turned on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
84 posts
1,414 battles

Game is not simulator/

 

edit:

Always so many historians getting confused by WG's stronk Historicitytm

"I wonder who is firing the torpedoes on all those flat topped DDs?"

Edited by GDavid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×