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iLordShade

A way to make Historical Battles "work"

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Super Tester
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1,399 battles

...and not be the atrocious mess they were in World of Tanks.

 

Historical Battles would work like this. You'd pick a campaign from a list of famous WW1 or WW2 Battles, they'd vary from small scale to large scale engagements. To name a few : Battle of Midway, Battle of the Coral Sea, Night Battle of Savo Island, Battle of Leyte Gulf, Battle of the Denmark Strait (Bismarck vs Hood and belligerents)

 

Now once a battle has been selected, you pick either if you want to vs AI who would control every ship on the enemy team plus ships on your side that are not selected by players, or vs players, upon which you'd have to wait for people to join up and select the respective slots.

 

Now, what is a SLOT?

 

a Slot is a ship that was historically present in that battle. A player could pick this slot for the respective ship that want to play. Players do not have to research the ship beforehand to play it.

 

Heres an example : The Night Battle of Savo Island (The 1st Battle of Guadalcanal) 

 

IJN Side consisting of : Mikawa Fleet

 

1x Takao Class Heavy Cruiser Chōkai

2x Aoba class Heavy cruisers Aoba & Kinugasa

2x Furutaka class heavy cruisers Furutaka & Kako (with dual turret layouts)

1x Tenryu class light cruiser Tenryu

1x Yubari class light cruiser Yubari

1x Kamikaze Class Destroyer Yuunagi

 

USN side consisting off: Southern Force and Northern Force (there was an eastern force, but they did not contribute anything to the battle)

 

Note that due to historical circumstances, these ships spawn in seperate locations ala hotspot. 

Southern Force

2x County Class Heavy Cruiser HMAS Australia & HMAS Canberra

1x Northhampton Class Heavy Cruiser USS Chicago

2x Bagley Class Destroyer USS Bagley & USS Patterson

 

Northern Force

3x New Orleans Class Heavy Cruisers USS Vicennes, USS Quincy & USS Astoria

1x Bagley Class Destroyer USS Helm

1x Benham Class Destroyer USS Wilson

 

This is of course a night battle, Wargaming has yet to reveal or even state how night battles will work (though they are working on them) so general night battle rules would apply.

 

Players would choose slots based on which ship they would like to play. All ships in the game would have their historical names as stated above. So if somebody over TS or something says focus all guns on the USS Quincy, or "illuminate all searchlights on the USS Helm!" you'd be able to understand effectively which ship to look for. 

 

This system is what i have thought up and would not require players to research the ships beforehand to play them (IMO, WoTs historical battles big shortfall was the requirement to have the tanks you wanted to play - already researched). This allows players who simply don't have the time to grind or don't have the money to farm and convert free experience to try ships that they otherwise would spend a long time trying to obtain. It has a very "pick up and play" attitude and would open up your playerbase to more players.

 

Now if only i could figure out what the rewards would be... This is just a rough sketch, I'm sure somebody could figure something out.

 

Now will players change history or will they be faithful to it? They're many ways this battle could of turned out, and as some people know in history the IJN won a tactical victory (but it was a strategic defeat) while the USN lost 1200 sailors and a large portion of the Heavy Cruiser force currently present in the Pacific.

 

 

 

 

Edited by iLordShade

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Beta Tester
2,718 posts
1,988 battles

Rewards?

 

May be they can make it like W____ _____er - make it an Event which gives Higher Reward than usual (+10-20%).

 

Also, Finishing X amount of matches will earn you some cool stuff - May be some Slightly Stronger Camo - Unique and Useful (Say 5% More Effective AA for a match?).

 

And oh BTW, Make it PvE as well (In Case the lower Player count). Should be a Fun mode open like every other week (Different Battles of course).

 

 

Edited by Alvin1020

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Beta Tester
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This has the same issue as Historical Battles in WoT, who would want to be in a Tenryu or Yubari when you can play as Takao/Choukai?

This kind of setting would not go well at all, unless somehow WG make bots on friendly team work.

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Beta Tester
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This kind of setting would not go well at all, unless somehow WG make bots on friendly team work.

 

They do already. If you can't find a match for 1:15-1:30 it will match you with Bots.

Just that they always lose to the Enemy Bots for some reason. :amazed:

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Super Tester
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This has the same issue as Historical Battles in WoT, who would want to be in a Tenryu or Yubari when you can play as Takao/Choukai?

This kind of setting would not go well at all, unless somehow WG make bots on friendly team work.

 

Not particularly. This is a bit premature anyway, In Night Battle case you'd want a ship with a low profile and torpedoes. Yubari and Tenryu would be excellent choices in this matter.

 

Tiers would not matter here. a Tier 3 Tenryu in a night situation would be able to easily sink a tier 7 New Orleans if the Tenryuu can get into torpedo range first without being spotted due to presumed night battle mechanics.

 

If you wanted to be more historical, You would give the IJN fleet enhanced view distance, spotting range and concealment. The USN fleet at that time were exhausted from extended combat operations during the day ,and many of them were asleep at the time. Many ships were already ablazed and sinking before crews were even sufficiently roused.

Edited by iLordShade

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Super Tester
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The main thing holding people back on World of Tanks was that people had to buy the tank to play it in HBs. Everybody wanted to be the one with the big gun (Tiger I, Tiger II, Jagdtiger, ISU...). Because very few wanted to play as the itty-bitty tank that could, HBs were very difficult to organise.

 

Not needing to research and purchase the ship, I feel, is a great idea and one which will see people accommodating the lower tiers.

Edited by Haku

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Beta Tester
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The main thing holding people back on World of Tanks was that people had to buy the tank to play it in HBs. Everybody wanted to be the one with the big gun (Tiger I, Tiger II, Jagdtiger, ISU...). Because very few wanted to play as the itty-bitty tank that could, HBs were very difficult to organise.

 

Not needing to research and purchase the ship, I feel, is a great idea and one which will see people accommodating the lower tiers.

 

I think it can work like Steel-Hunt/Domination - Not Every Week, but like every Month or so There will be these "Event Ship" with Historical Setups and Names Free to players to join the event.

 

This will encourage people.

 

As for no one want to play the Bottom Tiers - Even Easier - Remember those Daily missions we have? Change them to reward people playing say a Tenryu for 5 times and give them like 100000 Credits for it. Want some easy money? Play those ships :P

Edited by Alvin1020

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Beta Tester
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They do already. If you can't find a match for 1:15-1:30 it will match you with Bots.

Just that they always lose to the Enemy Bots for some reason. :amazed:

 

Friendly bots losing to enemy bots is totally intentional, it's WG's plan all along.

Even if they make it far that bots on both team do well, there's still chance that they'll torp you because you know, bots.

Also, bots can't communicate, teamwork immediately threw out of the window.

 

 

Not particularly. This is a bit premature anyway, In Night Battle case you'd want a ship with a low profile and torpedoes. Yubari and Tenryu would be excellent choices in this matter.

 

Tiers would not matter here. a Tier 3 Tenryu in a night situation would be able to easily sink a tier 7 New Orleans if the Tenryuu can get into torpedo range first without being spotted due to presumed night battle mechanics.

 

If you wanted to be more historical, You would give the IJN fleet enhanced view distance, spotting range and concealment. The USN fleet at that time were exhausted from extended combat operations during the day ,and many of them were asleep at the time. Many ships were already ablazed and sinking before crews were even sufficiently roused.

 

Then how would it work for surface battle during daytime? And stuffs like Battle of Midway?

Who would want a Light Cruiser during day battle against Battleships and Heavy Cruisers? Who would not go for heavy air superiority Carrier in a Carrier Battle map?

Also, we don't know how would night battle mechanics work, but the general rules would still apply. You stand much better chance of influencing the battle being a top tier ship rather than low tier ones regardless.

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Super Tester
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Friendly bots losing to enemy bots is totally intentional, it's WG's plan all along.

Even if they make it far that bots on both team do well, there's still chance that they'll torp you because you know, bots.

Also, bots can't communicate, teamwork immediately threw out of the window.

 

 

Then how would it work for surface battle during daytime? And stuffs like Battle of Midway?

Who would want a Light Cruiser during day battle against Battleships and Heavy Cruisers? Who would not go for heavy air superiority Carrier in a Carrier Battle map?

Also, we don't know how would night battle mechanics work, but the general rules would still apply. You stand much better chance of influencing the battle being a top tier ship rather than low tier ones regardless.

 

Lower tiers can influence higher tier gameplay, but what I'm saying is tiers will not matter here. Its meant to be historical. Nothing else.

Balance concerns will be fixed with time, in a day surface engagement all ships would have their place and can contribute accordingly, People can choose to play carriers if they want. But the choice is there if people do not want to play carriers.

 

If nobody wants to play the light cruiser, then the system will just shove a bot in its place. The bot would act on a scripted ruleset and would try and stay in formation with other players.

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Super Tester
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This has the same issue as Historical Battles in WoT, who would want to be in a Tenryu or Yubari when you can play as Takao/Choukai?

This kind of setting would not go well at all, unless somehow WG make bots on friendly team work.

 

By making lower tier ships getting a much higher reward than their higher tier counterparts.

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Super Tester
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Then how would it work for surface battle during daytime? And stuffs like Battle of Midway?

Who would want a Light Cruiser during day battle against Battleships and Heavy Cruisers? Who would not go for heavy air superiority Carrier in a Carrier Battle map?

Also, we don't know how would night battle mechanics work, but the general rules would still apply. You stand much better chance of influencing the battle being a top tier ship rather than low tier ones regardless.

 

A Japanese light cruiser (espeically something like the Tenryuu and Kuma) has camouflage ratings comparable to destroyers. Dancing in front of the enemy going "loltorps!" is a viable thing to do. An American light cruiser would probably be sitting back and providing AA cover and fire support.

 

No one does, but there wouldn't be any reason to introduce night battles without there being changes to the core mechanics of the gameplay. Let WG do their thing while the OP provides conjectures on what could be in the game.

 

I could be in a high-tier cruiser. I still wouldn't accept hits from low-tier torpedoes. Don't forget that in the night time, torpedo spotting range would most likely be reduced, hopefully even eliminated, and Tenryuu reloads her torpedoes...extremely quickly.

Edited by Haku

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Alpha Tester
392 posts

The biggest mistake WoT did was combining PvP with historical battles. That was an utter failure. Gamers couldn't care less about history, much less historical accuracy. Take the Battle of the Bulge for example, majority preferred to queue in the Tiger II than the stock M4A3E2 because it's the stronger tank. So sorry to say, but PvP is only meant for Random Battles. The only mode suitable for historical battles is and will always be PvE. I only hope that both WoT and WoWP can see the potential PvE has.

 

Another reason would be that I just want to enjoy reliving a historical battle without worry of being teamkilled, accused of kill stealing and chat abuse (we still can't disable chat like in WoT). That kind of toxic stays in Random Battles.

 

Let the rewards be the same as daily missions, but only a percentage of it.

Edited by Nikolaevna

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Beta Tester
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HB won't work for the following reasons:

1.) Majority of the playerbase are playing IJN ships.
2.) A very tiny minority of the playerbase is only playing other nations's ships.

3.) Specifically on the Asia server where weeaboo-ism is prominent, doubt anyone would even want to play as the US or Allies side.
4.) It didn't work on WoT, why would it even work on WoWS. 

5.) Air Supremacy and Technological Superiority (radar and such) doesn't reflect well on the USN ships in game, both of which were paramount to the success of their real life counterparts.

Edited by _PanzerKeil_

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Super Tester
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HB won't work for the following reasons:

 

1.) Majority of the playerbase are playing IJN ships.

2.) A very tiny minority of the playerbase is only playing other nations's ships.

3.) Specifically on the Asia server where weeaboo-ism is prominent, doubt anyone would even want to play as the US or Allies side.

4.) It didn't work on WoT, why would it even work on WoWS. 

5.) Air Supremacy and Technological Superiority (radar and such) doesn't reflect well on the USN ships in game, both of which were paramount to the success of their real life counterparts.

 

Reasons 1-4...where did you learn those exaggerations, with those innuendos?

 

Reason 5, that can be balanced, but then again, we want to at least make sure that both sides have a fair chance of winning any engagement.

 

Dante's Inferno's reply has been automatically ignored for obvious reasons.
Edited by Haku

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Alpha Tester
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Pretty easy solution.

 

Remove PVP on a certain weekend and replace it with HB (Co-op)

Rotate battles and have a monthly special HB

 

That will upset alot of players even if it's only on weekends. While it does force them to try out HB mode, they can't play with their ineligible and paper/fake vehicles. In WoT, players often play the E-100 instead of the Tiger and majority don't care about history. Don't forget, everyone will want to play in the highest tiered vehicle.

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Super Tester
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Which you counter with incentives to play low-tier ships.

 

I also disagree with your statement that players only want to play high tiers. When I started World of Tanks, the first thing I wanted was the Tiger, so I grinded towards it. The Tiger is an incredibly iconic tank. Almost no one will have ever heard of the E-100 until this game came out.

 

Also, you're too entrenched in the tiering system prevalent in World of Tanks. Supposedly inferior ships can take on higher tiers and come out on top.

 

Again, one of the main obstacles stopping HBs from being played was because people owned all the high-tier tanks. Give them the chance to play the ship without needing to grind towards it and see what happens then.

Edited by Haku

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ST Coordinator
2,325 posts
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Most of my most driven tanks in WoT is Tier V/VI. I hardly even take my Tier VIII/IX out anymore, they are not as fun to play as mid tier.

In CBT when everyone was trying to get Yamato or Des Monies (I got the Yamato for the sake of getting her, then Hotel-ed her) I was more comfortable playing Kongou and Cleavland and Minekaze.

 

I would love to play in HB with Yasen mode!!!!!!

Edited by Windforce

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