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Hakuryu Vs. Midway (USN VS IJN CVs)

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Finally got my Midway, so it's about time to shed some more light on how poorly balanced and OP the IJN CVs are compared to their counterpart, and of course, to other ships, and how they can effortlessly farm some cash,exp and skyrocket their player profile.

 

Me, and some other USN CV captains, have been complaining ever since CBT about how OP and flexible IJN CV's flight controls are and how USN CV's flight controls makes no sense in comparison, how IJN's servicing time is 2x - 3x  faster than USN's (equals to more sortie/ more damage).

 

all planes here are the upgraded/top version

Flight controls: (figther/torpedo/dive)
       balanced mod.1: (stock)
                   Hakuryu: 2 / 3 / 2 (total aircraft in air: 28 with air superiority : 32) | fighters(AS) : 10 | 12 TB x 8567 damage = 102 804 damage/wave | negligible / equal
                   Midway:  2 / 1 / 2 (total aircraft in air: 30 with air superiority : 34) | fighters(AS) : 14 |  6 TB x 9867 damage = 59 202 damage/wave    | negligible / equal

       Strike mod. 2:
                   Hakuryu: 1 / 3 / 4(total aircraft in air: 32 with air superiority : 37) | 5 fighters(AS) : 5 | 12 TB x 8567 damage = 102 804 damage/wave | 20 DB(AS) = more flexibility/control and more chance for fire
                   Midway:  1 / 2 / 2(total aircraft in air: 30 with air superiority : 33) | 7 fighters(AS) : 7 | 12 TB x 9867 damage = 118 404 damage/wave | 14 DB(AS)

       Air Domination mod.3:
                   Hakuryu: 4 / 2 / 2(total aircraft in air: 32 with air superiority : 38)  | 20 fighters(AS) : 20  | 8 TB x 8567 damage = 68 536 damage/wave | negligible / equal

                   Midway:  3 / 0 / 2(total aircraft in air: 30 with air superiority : 35)  | 21 fighters(AS) : 21  |                         0 damage/wave                         | negligible / equal

 

      Servicing/reload/rearm time per squad:
                   Hakuryu: fighters: 16 seconds | TB: 20 seconds | DB: 27 seconds
                   Midway:  figthers: ~42 seconds  | TB: 47 second s| DB: 38 seconds


As seen, Hakuryu dominates the Midway in every aspect.

 

Mod. 1/ balance setup: even with midway's slightly superior fighter power, the haku's fighters can keep them busy while haku's vastly superior torpedo power can rip ships apart.

 

Mod.2 /strike setup: The most popular Midway FC and the least for hakuryu. In this setup, haku exchanges 1 fighter for 1 DB hence the unpopularity. This setup made essex/midway LOOK  terrifying but not that far in damage output/wave as the hakuryu's. Against each other, once again the hakuryu gains the advantage with more dive bombers, which he can use to force an enemy ship to use Damage Control and proceed to re ignite the ship and with 4 squadrons, it's raining fire. Midway's fighters have slight advantage but can go either way and will be forced to use all ammunition against haku's fighter.

Mod.3 / air domination setup: The hakuryu trend nowadays, the setup that makes you think what was the devs thinking when they thought 4-2-2 would be balanced. This takes the cake, it will absolutely dominate any setup of midway, both sea and air. Even midway's mod 3 FC is barely a match against a hakuryu with this setup, all while capable of dishing out 68k damage per wave! As a midway or any USN CV, you might as well forget about your enemy ships since you have no real capability to damage them decently.

And all of these changes when we factor in hakuryu's lightning speed rearm/servicing of its plane which is twice as fast, now that's real OP and bad balancing work right there. No wonder, even a hakuryu in air domination setup can dish out 120k damage no sweat, no skill, just clicking on ships and auto dropping torpedos.

At the end of the day, much has been said about this topic and nothing has been done. I've finally reached the top of USN CVs. All the way up there has revealed the terrible job WG has done on our CVs. With 0.4.1 looming, it is probably bound to get worse. WG has failed to see why IJN carriers are OP as hell, and will make wrong changes, for the worse. Well, I'll probably not be around to see carriers balanced so good luck to you guys,

 

Edited by Deicide

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[POI]
Super Tester
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Yea Harujuku can definitely overwhelm Midway with it's swarm of Squadrons and zerg rush you(5 squads to 10). Coming next update (0.4.1) Taiho and Hakuryu had are having there 1/3/3 and 1/3/4 loadout altered to 2/3/2 and 2/3/3, so it's more fighter heavy.

 

Also next update we get a Fighter strafing ability and from my testing on the PT server it seems to work a lot better on USN carriers than IJN carriers 

Edited by Juan_23

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I thought that Midway balanced loadout is beastly, 2 fighters squadron and 2 TB along with one DB..... If Midway is still underpowered then the game is official biased toward the IJN carriers

 

There's no 2/2/1 on Midway or Essex, only 1/2/2 or 2/1/2.

 

As for that biased thing:

 Not this **** again. :hiding:

 

IJN CV isn't OP, it's just that USN CV is UP.

#BuffUSNCV 

 

Yea Harujuku can definitely overwhelm Midway with it's swarm of Squadrons and zerg rush you(5 squads to 10). Coming next update (0.4.1) Taiho and Hakuryu had are having there 1/3/3 and 1/3/4 loadout altered to 2/3/2 and 2/3/3, so it's more fighter heavy.

 

Also next update we get a Fighter strafing ability and from my testing on the PT server it seems to work a lot better on USN carriers than IJN carriers 

 

Haku only get 8 squads, not 10.

Essex/Midway: 5 squads x6 = 30 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 35 to 33 active planes.

 

Hakuryu: 8 squads x4 = 32 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 38 to 37 active planes.

 

Taiho: 7 squads x4 = 28 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 32 to 33 active planes.

 

The problem here is the squad side and Air Supremacy skill, which makes it really hard to balance out the number of active planes for same tier Carriers.

Also, the core problem with balancing Carrier is Air Superiority vs Strike Capability.

 

- Air supremacy skill is messed up, it allows CV with more squads to field more planes, which indirectly punish CV with large squad (USN CV). Personally I think this skill should be removed and replaced with something else, or have WG normalize squad size.

 

- Going Air Superiority will win you the fight against enemy CV, but then you lose much of your impact on the actual surface battle. It's not fair to compare Strike/Balanced CV against Air Superiority CV because it's straight up who will win. Players should take wider looks at the impact on the battlefield as a whole instead of just CV vs CV; CV only take up to 1/6 of the team.

 

- USN CV Air superiority loadout is gimped, I don't know why WG still haven't fix it because 1-2 squads of DB can't compete with IJN CV's TB and DB in their Air Superiority loadout. Then again, this boils down to how WG decided to implement DB with HE bomb only. If USN CV gonna stick with their favorite DB then they should get the option to use AP Bomb where as IJN DB can only use HE Bomb. Easier solution is to just replace 1 squad of DB on USN CV AS loadout with TB.

 

 

Okay enough with the OP talk, CV is a really situational class. If the enemy gather up then CV is useless, but if they keep spreading out like what we see **** do then they are devastating. It all depends on how the enemy team plays, the CV class is still gonna stay like this no matter how WG changes it. It's OP if you don't know how to counter it, but if you do then it's easily the most useless of all classes. 

(This is only valid for tiers of ships that has decent AA, tier6+)

 

EDIT: Fixed profanity picture. :hiding:

 

 

Edited by Gezeiten_Heimatwelt

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I thought that Midway balanced loadout is beastly, 2 fighters squadron and 2 TB along with one DB..... If Midway is still underpowered then the game is official biased toward the IJN carriers

 

only 1 torpedo bomber. having 2 fighter and 2 torpedo bomber in a flight control is a dream for USN CV captains

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There's no 2/2/1 on Midway or Essex, only 1/2/2 or 2/1/2.

 

As for that biased thing:

 auunp3.jpg

 

IJN CV isn't OP, it's just that USN CV is UP.

#BuffUSNCV 

 

 

Haku only get 8 squads, not 10.

Essex/Midway: 5 squads x6 = 30 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 35 to 33 active planes.

 

Hakuryu: 8 squads x4 = 32 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 38 to 37 active planes.

 

Taiho: 7 squads x4 = 28 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 32 to 33 active planes.

 

The problem here is the squad side and Air Supremacy skill, which makes it really hard to balance out the number of active planes for same tier Carriers.

Also, the core problem with balancing Carrier is Air Superiority vs Strike Capability.

 

- Air supremacy skill is messed up, it allows CV with more squads to field more planes, which indirectly punish CV with large squad (USN CV). Personally I think this skill should be removed and replaced with something else, or have WG normalize squad size.

 

- Going Air Superiority will win you the fight against enemy CV, but then you lose much of your impact on the actual surface battle. It's not fair to compare Strike/Balanced CV against Air Superiority CV because it's straight up who will win. Players should take wider looks at the impact on the battlefield as a whole instead of just CV vs CV; CV only take up to 1/6 of the team.

 

- USN CV Air superiority loadout is gimped, I don't know why WG still haven't fix it because 1-2 squads of DB can't compete with IJN CV's TB and DB in their Air Superiority loadout. Then again, this boils down to how WG decided to implement DB with HE bomb only. If USN CV gonna stick with their favorite DB then they should get the option to use AP Bomb where as IJN DB can only use HE Bomb. Easier solution is to just replace 1 squad of DB on USN CV AS loadout with TB.

 

 

Okay enough with the OP talk, CV is a really situational class. If the enemy gather up then CV is useless, but if they keep spreading out like what we see newbs do then they are devastating. It all depends on how the enemy team plays, the CV class is still gonna stay like this. It's OP if you don't know how to counter it, but if you do then it's easily the most useless of the team.

 

 

 

 

sorry prematurely clicked submit post already heavily edited.

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sorry prematurely clicked submit post already heavily edited.

 

It's okay, my post is still valid anyway. :hiding:

But yeah, They really should fix the aircraft loadout. USN CV should use more TB instead of DB. Also the Air Supremacy skill should not remain in this game.

 

I still don't like how people always prefer the word OP over UP. I don't find IJN CV OP, just that USN CV are UP.

Or maybe because of how general community of this game find CV OP; no they aren't, just that players make little effort to counter them, they should learn how to play this game differently from WoT.

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It's okay, my post is still valid anyway. :hiding:

But yeah, They really should fix the aircraft loadout. USN CV should use more TB instead of DB. Also the Air Supremacy skill should not remain in this game.

 

I still don't like how people always prefer the word OP over UP. I don't find IJN CV OP, just that USN CV are UP.

Or maybe because of how general community of this game find CV OP; no they aren't, just that players make little effort to counter them, they should learn how to play this game differently from WoT.

 

OP or UP, it's ok for me either way since i;m just comparing the two ships, so one has to become OP the other UP. But things should be different when describing CVs as a whole element in WoWS gameplay.

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Game is officially IJN biased:

US DD= pile of crap up to tier 9

U.S. CV= pile of crap all around

U.S. CA= tier 7-9 underpowered 

U.S. BB= one some are good: New York, Colorado are free bags of EXP

In the near future all IJN ships shall to be nerfed to the ground. They got to pay. The tear of the anime fan boys will make the sea even saltier- fine by me 

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Game is officially IJN biased:

US DD= pile of crap up to tier 9

U.S. CV= pile of crap all around

U.S. CA= tier 7-9 underpowered 

U.S. BB= one some are good: New York, Colorado are free bags of EXP

In the near future all IJN ships shall to be nerfed to the ground. They got to pay. The tear of the anime fan boys will make the sea even saltier- fine by me 

 

Looks like you had too much salt there USN fanboi:popcorn:

 

 

OP or UP, it's ok for me either way since i;m just comparing the two ships, so one has to become OP the other UP. But things should be different when describing CVs as a whole element in WoWS gameplay.

 

That would cause a bit misleading, since the term OP/UP should only be used when comparing certain ship to the all vessels of same tier or same class.

Edited by Gezeiten_Heimatwelt

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There's no 2/2/1 on Midway or Essex, only 1/2/2 or 2/1/2.

 

As for that biased thing:

 auunp3.jpg

 

IJN CV isn't OP, it's just that USN CV is UP.

#BuffUSNCV 

 

 

Haku only get 8 squads, not 10.

Essex/Midway: 5 squads x6 = 30 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 35 to 33 active planes.

 

Hakuryu: 8 squads x4 = 32 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 38 to 37 active planes.

 

Taiho: 7 squads x4 = 28 active planes.

- With Air supremacy: 32 to 33 active planes.

 

The problem here is the squad side and Air Supremacy skill, which makes it really hard to balance out the number of active planes for same tier Carriers.

Also, the core problem with balancing Carrier is Air Superiority vs Strike Capability.

 

- Air supremacy skill is messed up, it allows CV with more squads to field more planes, which indirectly punish CV with large squad (USN CV). Personally I think this skill should be removed and replaced with something else, or have WG normalize squad size.

 

- Going Air Superiority will win you the fight against enemy CV, but then you lose much of your impact on the actual surface battle. It's not fair to compare Strike/Balanced CV against Air Superiority CV because it's straight up who will win. Players should take wider looks at the impact on the battlefield as a whole instead of just CV vs CV; CV only take up to 1/6 of the team.

 

- USN CV Air superiority loadout is gimped, I don't know why WG still haven't fix it because 1-2 squads of DB can't compete with IJN CV's TB and DB in their Air Superiority loadout. Then again, this boils down to how WG decided to implement DB with HE bomb only. If USN CV gonna stick with their favorite DB then they should get the option to use AP Bomb where as IJN DB can only use HE Bomb. Easier solution is to just replace 1 squad of DB on USN CV AS loadout with TB.

 

 

Okay enough with the OP talk, CV is a really situational class. If the enemy gather up then CV is useless, but if they keep spreading out like what we see newbs do then they are devastating. It all depends on how the enemy team plays, the CV class is still gonna stay like this no matter how WG changes it. It's OP if you don't know how to counter it, but if you do then it's easily the most useless of all classes. 

(This is only valid for tiers of ships that has decent AA, tier6+)

 

 

 

Dude don't post profanity

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- Going Air Superiority will win you the fight against enemy CV, but then you lose much of your impact on the actual surface battle. It's not fair to compare Strike/Balanced CV against Air Superiority CV because it's straight up who will win. Players should take wider looks at the impact on the battlefield as a whole instead of just CV vs CV; CV only take up to 1/6 of the team.

 

 

"Going Air Superiority will win you the fight against enemy CV, but then you lose much of your impact on the actual surface battle"

 

tell that to WG then, and ask why they gave hakuryu/taiho 2 torpedo bomber at fighter setup. and with that re-arm time it can juice out same damage as midway's strike setup.

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"Going Air Superiority will win you the fight against enemy CV, but then you lose much of your impact on the actual surface battle"

 

tell that to WG then, and ask why they gave hakuryu/taiho 2 torpedo bomber at fighter setup. and with that re-arm time it can juice out same damage as midway's strike setup.

 

I think that in the next update what you should actually do is border humping and put down the enemy IJN CV, I can't wait to get rekt in my Ranger when I come back because WG have decided that Haku can have the 3-3-1 loadout

 

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Dude don't post profanity

 

Okay, I fixed that, now just need Deicide to fix the quoted image. :hiding:

 

 

"Going Air Superiority will win you the fight against enemy CV, but then you lose much of your impact on the actual surface battle"

 

tell that to WG then, and ask why they gave hakuryu/taiho 2 torpedo bomber at fighter setup. and with that re-arm time it can juice out same damage as midway's strike setup.

 

Okay then, it's not "much" but "some".

Although tier9-10 is the only cases where Air superiority loadout doesn't greatly affect the ship's strike capability.

Ryujo's 3/1/1 gonna sux albeit less than Indy's 2/0/1 (would be fair if Indy get 2/1/0, not Bogue though because that would be overkill).

Hiryu and Shoukaku 3/1/2... well it depends, although I think it'd be fair if Ranger also gets 2/1/1 like Lexi.

 

I don't think Haku with 4/2/2 can outdamage Midway's 1/2/2 though, effectively 2 squads of IJN TB against BB only deal as much as 1 group of USN TB, even with the shorter service time. There's the "effective time under AA" thing too, having to do more runs on enemy ships means more planes would be loss thus also amounts to lower effective DPM.

Edited by Gezeiten_Heimatwelt

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I don't think Haku with 4/2/2 can outdamage Midway's 1/2/2 though, effectively 2 squads of IJN TB against BB only deal as much as 1 group of USN TB, even with the shorter service time. There's the "effective time under AA" thing too, having to do more runs on enemy ships means more planes would be loss thus also amounts to lower effective DPM.

 

yes that's right, of course it can't outdamage midway's strike setup but can potentially reach almost the same amount of damage in good situations, and with those 4 figthers protecting your bombers, good situations often comes by a lot.

 

 

Although tier9-10 is the only cases where Air superiority loadout doesn't greatly affect the ship's strike capability.

 

true, but exclusively to our dear IJN CVs. USN CVs retain their retarded, torpedo-less air superiority setup till the end.

 

 

I think that in the next update what you should actually do is border humping and put down the enemy IJN CV, I can't wait to get rekt in my Ranger when I come back because WG have decided that Haku can have the 3-3-1 loadout

 

 

3-3-1, if that is true oh my goodness. they might as well remove the USN CV line and we all go to IJN

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3-3-1, if that is true oh my goodness. they might as well remove the USN CV line and we all go to IJN

 

I've never heard that Haku would get 3-3-1, ever.

Last time I check on 0.4.1 PT server the only thing changed was 1/3/4 to 2/3/3.

 

With regards to how WG changed CV loadout, 3/2/3 is a possibility, but 3/3/1 no chance.

Unless the 2nd PT is out, in that case I don't know but I don't think they've opened 2nd PT yet.

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Depends only on your play style.

-If you want an enjoyable game but still make quite a lot of money, go for USN ones.

-If you want to be furious and have quick punches but hurt badly, go for IJN cruisers.

Also Midway has the worst stealth in the game - 18,1 km detection range in the air and 18,4 km on the surface

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Depends only on your play style.

-If you want an enjoyable game but still make quite a lot of money, go for USN ones.

-If you want to be furious and have quick punches but hurt badly, go for IJN cruisers.

Also Midway has the worst stealth in the game - 18,1 km detection range in the air and 18,4 km on the surface

 

I think the midway detectability range is getting buffed in the next update. Until then we can only wait

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I'd say that if you wanna have fun at high tier and got punish at low-mid tier pick USN or if you want something that reverse from the first one pick IJN.  that's it:red_button:

 

Edited by james4b

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