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Fear_the_Reaper

Battleship short range buff - Let us control the secondaries instead.

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Beta Tester
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With confirmation that WG will be significantly increasing the accuracy of main batteries on all battleships at short ranges it is time again to bring this up....:hiding:

 

Let battleship captains control their secondary batteries if they want to be the one aiming them instead of increasing the main battery accuracy, make it an option or a hot key to take control of them leaving them AI controlled for all those who find switching between weapon types too hard and there are no problems created by doing this. 

 

Good battleship captains will tear apart bad captains who do not utilise this and the problem of battleships being under powered at close range also disappears, not only that it will greatly improve the game play of battleships as they are not just going to be firing then waiting 30 seconds to reload again, it will also encourage battleship captains to get in closer to enemy ships so that they can start using their secondary batteries. 

 

It literally hits 4 birds with 1 stone, that is something Wargaming should be looking into doing in my opinion, fixing 4 problems with a minor change sounds like a good thing to me.

 

TLDNR: 

The only reason BB are under powered at short range is because the range of their secondaries is significantly less than it was in reality and some smart cookie decided to hire these guys to aim them... 

AbT4Oar.gif

So instead of increasing the main battery accuracy on BB, let BB captains take the controls away from these knuckle heads. 

 

 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Beta Tester
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Okay we'll let you control your secondaries, but under the condition that they retain their accuracy. :hiding:

 

Id be fine with that, best they keep their range it would encourage bb captains to get in closer to ships and fight instead of sitting at maximum range on the edges of the maps :P

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Alpha Tester
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Maybe for cruisers, but honestly, battleships are already powerful enough, they're getting buffs just about every major patch because all of the pubbies suck so hard and QQ so much, if they get a buff of this magnitude they would be hilariously OP.

 

However, it would be much more fitting for cruisers, as it fits WG's role for them (destroyer hunting), and they really don't have have hugely impressive batteries (primary or secondary) either way, so they wouldn't suddenly become hugely OP like battleships would.

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Beta Tester
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Id be fine with that, best they keep their range it would encourage bb captains to get in closer to ships and fight instead of sitting at maximum range on the edges of the maps :P

 

What I said was sarcasm, you won't be more accurate even if you can manually control those guns (because of that accuracy/dispersion).

Do you know that AI is better than Human player when it comes to aiming? Because they cheat. :hiding:

 

Honestly, buffing main gun accuracy is an easier solution to improve BB survivalbility at close range. It's much easier to change some values for accuracy instead of coding multiple pages for secondary guns control, not to mention debugging and such. Also, it's to prevent something like this from happening:

 pwbXi6o.jpg

 

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Beta Tester
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Maybe for cruisers, but honestly, battleships are already powerful enough, they're getting buffs just about every major patch because all of the pubbies suck so hard and QQ so much, if they get a buff of this magnitude they would be hilariously OP.

 

However, it would be much more fitting for cruisers, as it fits WG's role for them (destroyer hunting), and they really don't have have hugely impressive batteries (primary or secondary) either way, so they wouldn't suddenly become hugely OP like battleships would.

 

Idk Cleveland basically has 2 Gearings plus a turret sitting on either side of it if you let it use its secondaries properly, i mean i like the idea but i could see everyone else not liking the idea of Cleveland gaining an extra 160 rounds per minute fire storm at close ranges, they fire is it 12.8km on gearing? imagine if cleveland could do that haha 
Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Alpha Tester
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Maybe for cruisers, but honestly, battleships are already powerful enough, they're getting buffs just about every major patch because all of the pubbies suck so hard and QQ so much, if they get a buff of this magnitude they would be hilariously OP.

 

However, it would be much more fitting for cruisers, as it fits WG's role for them (destroyer hunting), and they really don't have have hugely impressive batteries (primary or secondary) either way, so they wouldn't suddenly become hugely OP like battleships would.

 

88 shots fired from secondary guns for 2 hits. Those were at a CL that had RUN AGROUND.

 

OP indeed.

 

My own suggestion was that the secondary guns should increase in accuracy with successive volleys at the same target if that target has been marked on screen (as per selecting planes for AA).

 

What that would do is make it all but impossible for a DD to sail around within close range for extended periods. Lower tier DDs can do so to the point they even reload their torps; I happen to think that's not ideal.

 

My experience was that secondary guns improved significantly at tier 7, but that frequently was meaningless as DDs can hit with torps from outside secondary ranges anyway.

 

As for the OP's suggestion of direct control? No. Besides, as was pointed out, if the accuracy is inherently terrible then manual control isn't really going to help.

Edited by Steeltrap

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Beta Tester
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88 shots fired from secondary guns for 2 hits. Those were at a CL that had RUN AGROUND.

 

OP indeed.

 

My own suggestion was that the secondary guns should increase in accuracy with successive volleys at the same target if that target has been marked on screen (as per selecting planes for AA).

 

What that would do is make it all but impossible for a DD to sail around within close range for extended periods. Lower tier DDs can do so to the point they even reload their torps; I happen to think that's not ideal.

 

My experience was that secondary guns improved significantly at tier 7, but that frequently was meaningless as DDs can hit with torps from outside secondary ranges anyway.

 

Yeah up at the higher tiers Japanese BB have 9km range and they are actually really accurate with the 155mm secondaries that fire AP, same goes for the American ships they get a lot more accurate at tier 8 when they get the 5 destroyer turrets on either side of the ship. 

 

Honestly i think the only reason they are buffing BB is because they are low on the statistic charts and it is 100% because of people playing stock BB's lol.

They don't actually need a buff, maybe ships like Kawachi and Myogi do but not the higher tier BB's, heck i do on average more damage in my battleships than i do in my cruisers. 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Super Tester
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This must be about high tier BBs since I dont think low tiers have problems with this.

 

If its about high tiers then stop right there, because high tiers will take much more time till WG will

even try to balance them.

Try again after release...

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Alpha Tester
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This must be about high tier BBs since I dont think low tiers have problems with this.

 

If its about high tiers then stop right there, because high tiers will take much more time till WG will

even try to balance them.

Try again after release...

 

You must have a different low tier BB from any I've played. My secondary guns can't hit for ****.

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You must have a different low tier BB from any I've played. My secondary guns can't hit for ****.

 

Lol depend on it but I really want wg to let us control the Secondary guns and the AA guns instead of AI Control it. Accuracy is too -.-

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Beta Tester
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buffing secondary accuracy will be nice, it will push dd and cruiser player who like move in too close and personal for too long. also increasing the range of lower tier secondary will also be nice. 3.5 km is just way too short to be any useful.

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Beta Tester
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Personally aside from a range buff with the accurracy issues it should be ok (+1km tops), there is no need to have player controlled secondaries, that would just complicate things even more and we want balance

Edited by Blitzkreig95

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Super Tester
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You must have a different low tier BB from any I've played. My secondary guns can't hit for ****.

 

The OP was about BBs having manual control of secondaries to improve their close range efficiency.

I dont see why this would be necessary since BBs are doing well at close range if done correctly.

 

Of course its possible that high tier BBs are unable to do so,

but as stated this wont be fixed for quite some time.

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Beta Tester
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Personally aside from a range buff with the accurracy issues it should be ok (+1km tops), there is no need to have player controlled secondaries, that would just complicate things even more and we want balance

 

yup as long as they buff the range and accuracy i will glad to leave it to ai as i can focus my attention to other things like evading incoming shell fire, torpedoes and attack planes.

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Honestly i think the only reason they are buffing BB is because they are low on the statistic charts and it is 100% because of people playing stock BB's lol.

 

 

That is just SILLY.

We have limited stats - we get the mean (average) only.

I would love to see the mode.

WG has more detail, obviously.

Your comment is just speculation. 

 

You don't play without fully upgraded ships - good for you. Your stats are obvious. Others chose not to spend the money, yet.

(I am waiting for the Kreigsmarine and saving up for the whole fleet)

 

Or are you arguing that "Pay to Win' is the real situation and the rest are cannon fodder.

I am sure WG knows how many people pay to have only the upgraded BBs and how many grind.

 

The big problem with BB stats is that there are so few BB (and DD) in the top 1000.

Even people who pay and only play upgraded BBs are not competitive.

WG would know the full stats detail there.

 

Summary : most people do OK with BBs but they cannot be leet.

Even you do significantly better with CA than BB, Mr Reaper sir.

So some changes are needed.

 

Probably won't help me - I'm too old to grow a brain.

But better than 1 hit average from a full broadside well aimed would be nice, IMHO.

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That is just SILLY.

We have limited stats - we get the mean (average) only.

I would love to see the mode.

WG has more detail, obviously.

Your comment is just speculation.

 

You don't play without fully upgraded ships - good for you. Your stats are obvious. Others chose not to spend the money, yet.

(I am waiting for the Kreigsmarine and saving up for the whole fleet)

 

Or are you arguing that "Pay to Win' is the real situation and the rest are cannon fodder.

I am sure WG knows how many people pay to have only the upgraded BBs and how many grind.

 

The big problem with BB stats is that there are so few BB (and DD) in the top 1000.

Even people who pay and only play upgraded BBs are not competitive.

WG would know the full stats detail there.

 

Summary : most people do OK with BBs but they cannot be leet.

Even you do significantly better with CA than BB, Mr Reaper sir.

So some changes are needed.

 

Probably won't help me - I'm too old to grow a brain.

But better than 1 hit average from a full broadside well aimed would be nice, IMHO.

 

Chill please....

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Alpha Tester
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The OP was about BBs having manual control of secondaries to improve their close range efficiency.

I dont see why this would be necessary since BBs are doing well at close range if done correctly.

 

Of course its possible that high tier BBs are unable to do so,

but as stated this wont be fixed for quite some time.

 

I don't understand how you can say "if done properly".

 

Is there a way that if you and I both aim perfectly well at close range you get better RNG than I do? Because that's the whole point of RNG, it's random. Given all other things being equal, there will be randomness in the result.

 

Sure, firing from better angles and having more guns pointing the right way, plus using best ammo choice etc are all things that can be done to improve the likelihood of success.

 

But that's NOT the issue with excessive RNG. And I'm sure you're well aware you can aim perfectly at a target broadside to you and miss with everything.

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Super Tester
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But that's NOT the issue with excessive RNG. And I'm sure you're well aware you can aim perfectly at a target broadside to you and miss with everything.

 

At what range, with what ship, what target and what map/part of the map?

 

Im asking because no, every time Ive missed my salvos it was because I failed at aiming.

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Alpha Tester
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At what range, with what ship, what target and what map/part of the map?

 

Im asking because no, every time Ive missed my salvos it was because I failed at aiming.

 

Fired broadside from Wyoming at a DD at about 4km. It was about 10 degrees off broadside. Every shot landed short or went over. Same DD killed me with torps (took it 3 tries, but in that time I hit it with one main gun shell and NO secondary shots).

 

If you claim never to have missed other than poor aim then frankly you mustn't have the same RNG as the rest of us. It's literally impossible to hit all the time when aimed properly IF there is RNG in the game. Period.

 

p.s. why would the map or part of it matter? Does RNG operate differently on different maps, or different parts of maps?

Edited by Steeltrap

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I never had any problem aiming at close range targets in Battleships. Never - even back in CBT.

 

The thing is, in a Battleship you really should not put yourself in CQB in the first place.

 

However even so I rarely get kill for it.

I have do torpedo runs in USN DD for long enough now, and rarely I was successful in a 1v1 with a BB. They usually have time for 2 Entire Salvo to deal with you - and if thats not enough the secondary needs a couple of hits to kills you (They do ~900-1500 Damage per hit to a DD - And DD had less than 15000 usually.).

The rare occasion I was successful is either the BB is stupid enough to turn Broadside against me - which I can only say thanks and look forward to your Torpedo Delivery Service.

 

To avoid them, simply Turn Towards them and Keep facing them if they turn around. You Got to know about when the guy is about to launch Torpedo right? Even for a BB torpedos are still avoidable up to 2km. A bit higher - ~2.5km - for a longer Rudder shift time BB (Arkansas, Stock BBs or the Tirpitz (21 seconds)).

 

The main problem is probably people is loaded AP for other ships, and was surprised to see the incoming DD and so do _____ against DD.

 

1 Battleship HE shell can Easily, I mean Seriously easily, take off a DD Half of it's health no matter what tier it is. My initial thoughts to this Close range Accuracy buff is that So what about USN DD? 

They're really down to their super inconsistent, Super low damage and Super low chance to fire guns? I don't know, but thats just my thoughts on this (Serious level).

Edited by Alvin1020

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