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Steeltrap

Repeat of client-server de-synch thread per Conan's request

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Alpha Tester
2,150 posts
486 battles

Hi all

 

Some of you would know I have posted about this many times. There was a 5 page (?) thread in the old bug reports forum from CB that was 'archived', so I've been asked to repeat it.

 

Issue Description:

There is an increasing difference between where the server calculates you and all other ships are versus where your client renders them on screen. When you start a battle, all seems fine. As time advances, however, it's as though there's a 'leak' between the server time and the client time, with the client increasingly falling behind.

 

In-Game Effect:

What this all adds up to is the client has your ship somewhere DIFFERENT from where you see it on screen, and the same applies for all other ships.

If you fire your guns you might well see the muzzle flash a few hundred metres ahead or to the side or even behind you.

When other ships fire, you'll see their muzzle flashes appearing in clear air away from where the ships themselves appear to be on your screen.

The movement of your ship becomes bizarre. If you give a helm order nothing happens for quite some time, then you find your ship moving at crazy angles to the ocean and your wake as the client tries to reconcile how to render what it is told from the server v what your command is. You can, for example, be moving at 45 degrees to your direction of travel i.e. if you drew a line of your advance, your ship's model could be at 45 degrees to that line, essentially sliding sideways through the water.

 

Obviously this is a disaster because:

- you can't aim effectively. Generally your shots will be behind where the server calculates the enemy to be.

- you can't navigate. You can be sailing along in what appears to be clear water and suddenly get the collision alarm and run aground.

- there is considerable lag between issuing commands (helm or firing, including torps) and their being executed; sometimes they aren't at all.

In short the game is entirely UNPLAYABLE.

 

 

When/how did this happen?

 

Around the 1st of June there was a 'trial hotfix file' released for testing to address 'micro-lag'. I noticed some people said it made things considerably WORSE.

On the 5th June update 0.3.1.3 was released, and this included something about router/net stuff designed to address micro-lag. I'm going from memory, because the update descriptions were also 'archived' (seriously, wtf was with that??).

My friend immediately found this problem made the game unplayable on the first game he played under 0.3.1.3.

He raised it with support. They said "there is no support, raise it in the bugs forum" which I did on his behalf (he gave up as he's a WoT beta player and used to WG's 'support').

The bug has continued with each and every update since.

 

There were others who wrote in that thread (Unraveler in particular).

 

My friend plays from Sydney on ADSL 2+ via a wireless connection to his router in another room.

He has a 4GB graphics card (can't remember which) and enough RAM and processor power to exceed the technical requirements by far.

He ISP is TPG.

He tried playing WoT to see if it was affected; it wasn't.

 

We're all but certain it relates to the point I made about the update 0.3.1.3.

 

I note, too, there is already another thread in this part of the forum, written as far back as 10th June?

 

Sorry for the repeat, but I was asked to do so by Conan.

 

Could anyone who is experiencing this issue please comment here? Might be worth including:

- is it constant or only some battles?

- your system info, including internet connection type/method.

- your location and ISP.

 

My friend has been UNABLE TO PLAY AT ALL since 5th June. He can log in and join battles, but there's no point because the de-synch is so bad he soon has no control of anything. He has lost the 1 month premium he should have had as a result of buying into the CBT.

 

Please give as much detail as you can. Conan has promised to escalate this as required; while it's been too long, we have to be pleased at least to see a commitment at last to address it.

 

Cheers all.

Edited by Steeltrap

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Alpha Tester
2,150 posts
486 battles

Hi again.

 

I've just had it suggested to me that this issue in Australia might be due to TPG putting some sort of filter on traffic etc. Another person had the same issue and resolved it through VPN.

 

Will pursue this with my friend and TPG.

 

WG should still look into it, however, as maybe they can do something from their end/discussions with TPG.

 

Cheers

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Alpha Tester
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486 battles

server restart seems to have fixed my dsync and lag issues

 

The recent upgrade and performance problems today are not relevant to this topic.

 

That's not me being rude, lol, just saying I appreciate the input but they're entirely coincidental.

 

Cheers

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Member
25 posts
937 battles

 

The recent upgrade and performance problems today are not relevant to this topic.

 

That's not me being rude, lol, just saying I appreciate the input but they're entirely coincidental.

 

Cheers

 

ok my bad

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Senior Moderator
4,798 posts
1,924 battles

Hmm TPG you say?

Interesting tried to do a "show and tell" at a work games night (work is on TPG) and it lagged horribly with desync.

WoT was no where near as bad.

Got the boys to change the routing to our Internode connection and no issues since.....

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Beta Tester
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I'm getting this in almost every battle. On rare occasions I'll get a normal battle in amongst all the de-synced ones. Battles are either fully, consistently de-synced for their entirety (the delay does not vary) or normal for their entirety. Normal battles happen about 5% of the time.

 

One of the more recent patches fixed the shells appearing from in front of the ship, but all other effects remain: all ships are being drawn with a 2-3 second delay. So what is displayed is not where the ships really are on the server (and on most other players' screens). Shells and torpedoes (which are apparently not subjected to this time warp and appear where they should) will pass harmlessly through these phantom images. Conversely, they will visibly impact on the invisible, real location of the target if you're lucky enough to land a hit by aiming at where you think the target might be. It would therefore seem that the client does indeed know the real location of all the ships but is choosing not to draw them there for some reason.

 

Steering is unpredictable due to the display of your own ship being delayed by 2-3 seconds. Avoiding land masses can be difficult - evading torpedoes, gunfire, enemy ships, etc is effectively impossible.

 

The game is unplayable in this state even in PvE mode.

 

My connection is ADSL 2+, all wired. My ISP is Internode, Melbourne. WoT (and every other game) has no connection issues.

Edited by Unraveler

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Alpha Tester
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That's interesting, Unraveler, as I'm with Internode in Sydney on ADSL 2+, all wired, and I have no issues.

 

Friend on TPG has been screwed ever since 0.3.1.3.

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Alpha Tester
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So I went to my friend's place and called TPG.

 

After a lot of stuffing around, they supposedly changed the port use as that was what someone else said had been the issue (TPG allegedly filtering to lower QOS for certain ports).

 

No effect, still unplayable.

 

Am going to try again in a few days.

 

Meanwhile, WHAT DID WG CHANGE IN 0.3.1.3 THAT COULD AFFECT NET CONNECTION ETC???

 

THAT is one vital piece of info we need to know. Are they looking into it from their end?

 

The black hole when it comes to input from WG makes those unlucky enough to have been screwed by this problem feel entirely unwanted. And some of them, like my friend, PAID WG MONEY.

 

WG, please provide some evidence you're trying something.

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Senior Moderator
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Wiresharked the basic connection (note I am a server engineer not network so I may well have missed some connections):

most of the communication was UDP (as expected) 

Source Destination Protocol

30000+ 80/443       TCP

30000+ 5222          TCP

20020  51359         UDP

51359  20020         UDP

32802  51359         UDP

51359  32802         UDP

 

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Beta Tester
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114 battles

- is it constant or only some battles?

Constant but time to time there are matches with no de-synch issue at all (i.e no delayed steering and shells/torps actually hitting the spots where I aimed at).

I say 1 in every 50 matches or so results in "clean" gameplay. But for the rest, it's an de-synch galore.

 

 - your system info, including internet connection type/method.

 HD7950 3GB, i7 4770K, 8GB RAM, Windows 7 64bit... ADSL2+

 

 - your location and ISP.

 Sydney, TPG

 

 

My third support ticket is still waiting for a reply and so far their answers are either "we're investigating the issue..." or "please provide these information...".

 

On the related note, I remember calling TPG on the very first day when I encountered this problem. Unfortunately one of their representatives had no idea what I'm talking about nor understanding the whole de-synch issue.

I gave up on asking help from them which I eagerly waited for an reply from mods and support on the forum and ticket respectively instead.

 

Hopefully this will be the last thread for reporting de-synch issue as I pray for a permanent fix to be released by WG.

 

 

 

 

 

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Alpha Tester
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Seems everyone with the constant de-synch is using TPG in Sydney.

 

I'm going to try dealing with them again.

 

But I am heartily sick of WG's utterly useless support and management's general disinterest in a game breaking issue THEY introduced.

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Beta Tester
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I'm Internode, Melbourne, and the route goes through Perth to Singapore. Constant de-sync, except like Kanade mentioned once in a while a rare battle will be perfectly normal.

 

I suspect that at the start of each battle the game is determining my connection quality and getting a false reading of "terrible lag." Then it enacts this de-sync effect to smooth out my "terrible lag." In reality, of course, I don't have any lag or packet-loss issues but the game is nonetheless flagging me as a bad connection for some reason. The rare non-de-sync battles that occur are probably due to the server reading my connection accurately and therefore not applying the de-sync smoothing.

 

This would fit with the anti-lag changes that were implemented around patch 0.3.1.3.

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Alpha Tester
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OK that's interesting because I'm with Internode in Sydney and I've never had issues.

 

And, yes, I believe it relates to that 'paper over the cracks' they tried.

 

But of course we're in a vacuum here because WG.

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Alpha Tester
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And here we are another week later on a thread I re-wrote at the request of Conan (my first PM to him was 11th June, mind you, and he/they deleted the entire bugs thread for lols) and what have we from WG?

 

ABSOLUTELY [REDACTED] NOTHING.

 

Seriously, just how inept/disinterested can they be? Is there some award (think 'golden joystick' but the opposite) for which we can nominate them?

Edited by Steeltrap

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Alpha Tester
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Thanks DMW.

 

AS you can see, the frustration is the utter lack of any communication. We don't know if they even know what the problem is. We've no indication they do, and none that they care (as silly as it might seem, that last part matters unless you don't care if your reputation is garbage).

 

So we don't even know if what they're doing will have any effect.

 

Reminds me of an amusing maintenance log for a commercial plane:

 

Report: something loose in cockpit

Fix: something tightened in cockpit.

 

Amusement aside (and that still makes me laugh after all the years I've known it), the trouble is the "something loose" has been described in very great detail.

 

Yet we've no idea what WG is tightening.

 

Bear in mind, too, that the problem in 0.3.1.3 as far as I can tell was to address 'micro-lag' and that caused all this. My friend had no issues whatsoever before then; WG 'fixed' a problem he (nor I or anyone else I know) didn't have, and introduced a game-breaking problem for him when they did.

 

AND HE HAD PAID THEM MONEY and hasn't been able to play AT ALL for OVER 2 MONTHS.

 

If I still worked in that space, I'd use WG as a case study in ineptitude when it comes to customer interaction. I did years ago, lol, to much amusement and amazement of the audience. Proved my points, however, so maybe I should thank them.

Edited by Steeltrap

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Senior Moderator
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believe it or not WG Asia is actually ahead of the pack for this one we at least have notification of the patch - no one else does (at the time of writing this)

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Alpha Tester
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believe it or not WG Asia is actually ahead of the pack for this one we at least have notification of the patch - no one else does (at the time of writing this)

 

I believe almost anything when the crux of it is how devoid of professionalism they are.

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Alpha Tester
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Here's something I posted elsewhere. Maybe someone might read it and do something. LOL, I know, but worth hoping.

 

Here's a freebie Root Cause Analysis:

Problem Statement (greater detail contained on first page):

- game works fine before 0.3.1.3.

- 0.3.1.3 sees client/server de-synch such that the game is unplayable

- the de-synch appears to be a particular problem with one ISP in particular in Australia.

Likely root cause: whatever was changed in 0.3.1.3 to 'improve network stability' (or whatever it was; the patch notes aren't available and my thread that had them all laid out was deleted) has caused a problem with how that ISP handles connections to WG's server.

Suggested Course of Action:

1. Answer the thread, calling for IDs of all affected players.

2. Gather technical info from them.

3. CONTACT THE ISP to determine how the 'fix' has caused the issue. WG and the ISP have engineers, right?

4. Determine a potential solution through that conversation/investigation.

5. Deploy the solution either at WG's server or through ISP's handling of traffic, whichever seems most efficient and effective.

6. Advise affected customers. Ask them to confirm issue solved.

7. End of issue.

 

See how easy it is to be professional and give a **** about your customers? Don't you think your customers would do this themselves if they could?

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WG Staff
606 posts
447 battles

Hello, I am already in direct contact with both our producer and our infrastructure guru/specialist/magician... 

Anyway, if you are de-sync-ing please provide a traceroute. You can PM me your complete traceroute along with your public IP (yes, that will help, and yes, it will be confidential.)

 

Thank you for your patience. 

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