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Fear_the_Reaper

Is it just me or..?

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With the defensive AA fire ability active actually aiming your guns in the direction of a plane squadron seems to make them drop like flies, Is this actually the case or coincidence? 

I know the defensive AA ability is allowing a cruiser to use its main batteries as AA guns if the ship had dual purpose guns like Salem for an example it is just not animated, So does this also mean they actually have to be aimed in that direction for the defensive fire ability to actually come into effect?  

 

On a related topic does activating the defensive fire ability disrupt the reload time of your dual purpose main batteries?

Not many people tend to keep main batteries firing while the defensive fire ability is active due to normally being in hard maneuvers but when i do keep firing i swear the reload is disrupted, it is most noticeable because i tend to fire a cruisers guns off so that as the last gun fired the first gun is reloading, "Make it rain fire" so to speak. 

 

If this is the case i and i would assume everyone else would greatly appreciate this being outlined in the defensive AA fire ability description tab.

 

Thanks in advance for whoever it is that knows the answer to this. 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Beta Tester
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In case you wondered: AA mechanics is highly random. There's almost no player-controlled factor that can affect the outcome aside one: setting priority target.

Doing so boosts the average AA DPS by 50%, but that's it. AA gun accuracy and stuffs like that are completely subjected to RNG.

 

Also, AA Barrage boosts DPS of your AA gun, but only the long-range ones (those 102-127mm ones). Medium and short-range AA do not get any boost, don't get fooled by the animation. In theory, the Atlanta would benefit the most from this skill, due to the number of 5-inch DP guns it carry, second comes Cleveland, Baltimore and Des Moines.

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Beta Tester
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In case you wondered: AA mechanics is highly random. There's almost no player-controlled factor that can affect the outcome aside one: setting priority target.

Doing so boosts the average AA DPS by 50%, but that's it. AA gun accuracy and stuffs like that are completely subjected to RNG.

 

Also, AA Barrage boosts DPS of your AA gun, but only the long-range ones (those 102-127mm ones). Medium and short-range AA do not get any boost, don't get fooled by the animation. In theory, the Atlanta would benefit the most from this skill, due to the number of 5-inch DP guns it carry, second comes Cleveland, Baltimore and Des Moines.

 

Hmm are you sure the 152mm guns on cleveland for an example do not fire as AA guns? 

I remember being told even Des moines 203mm guns work as AA, just not all the time or it would be OP hence the defensive AA fire ability being a thing simply because in real life 10 times as many planes would be flying toward ships and it would be too much strain for most peoples PC to animate that. 

 

Seriously try aiming your guns at planes next time you have that ability active and watch them drop, then the time after activate the ability and point your guns in the opposite direction and watch none drop, even with them selected as targets, thats how it seems to go with me, though i do admit it could be coincidence and down to as you said, RNG. 

 

It would not be the first thing in the game to be far more complicated than the description leads you to believe, Armour is a good example. 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Hmm are you sure the 152mm guns on cleveland for an example do not fire as AA guns? 

I remember being told even Des moines 203mm guns work as AA, just not all the time or it would be OP hence the defensive AA fire ability being a thing simply because in real life 10 times as many planes would be flying toward ships and it would be too much strain for most peoples PC to animate that. 

 

Seriously try aiming your guns at planes next time you have that ability active and watch them drop, then the time after activate the ability and point your guns in the opposite direction and watch none drop, even with them selected as targets, thats how it seems to go with me, though i do admit it could be coincidence and down to as you said, RNG. 

 

It would not be the first thing in the game to be far more complicated than the description leads you to believe, Armour is a good example. 

 

Aww, DP guns, this's complicated.

Some main batteries  is a DP gun right??

It might be too OP to give da main batteries power to shoot down plane with the fire ability on

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Beta Tester
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Aww, DP guns, this's complicated.

Some main batteries  is a DP gun right??

It might be too OP to give da main batteries power to shoot down plane with the fire ability on

 

Nono thats the thing i swear they already do for all ships that have the ability, those cruisers without the defensive fire ability do not have guns that can fire at planes, Omaha for an example its guns could never fire at planes, Clevelands could though, Same with Furutaka, its guns could that is why it gets the ability at the same tier as Omaha.  

 

I also swear pointing your guns at the planes makes the ability more effective and it is just not in the description.

I would not put it past WG to leave that out, they have never mentioned the penetration values of shells, they have given the armour stats out briefly but still no one knows what ships they can penetrate with what because of it, heck 90% of the community has no idea that angling your armour makes it twice as effective just like in world of tanks. 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Nono thats the thing i swear they already do for all ships that have the ability, those cruisers without the defensive fire ability do not have guns that can fire at planes, Omaha for an example its guns could never fire at planes, Clevelands could though, Same with Furutaka, its guns could that is why it gets the ability. 

 

Imagine if Omaha could shoot down planes with her main batteries, lol

Mmm, from what I played, I never interrupts the main battery

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Beta Tester
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Imagine if Omaha could shoot down planes with her main batteries, lol

Mmm, from what I played, I never interrupts the main battery

 

yeah im not 100% sure if the disruption comes from shooting down planes with dual purpose main batteries or if it comes from mag detonations to be honest, sometimes i miss mag detonations on the messages. heat of the battle and all that, if im in a situation where im still firing my guns while firing at planes its a dire situation haha 

 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Super Tester
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Hmm are you sure the 152mm guns on cleveland for an example do not fire as AA guns? 

I remember being told even Des moines 203mm guns work as AA, just not all the time or it would be OP hence the defensive AA fire ability being a thing simply because in real life 10 times as many planes would be flying toward ships and it would be too much strain for most peoples PC to animate that. 

 

Yeah I remember that watching the WG video on USS Salem saying they were DP guns.

 

But the only light crusier with 6" DP guns was the Worcester Class

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Hmm are you sure the 152mm guns on cleveland for an example do not fire as AA guns? 

I remember being told even Des moines 203mm guns work as AA, just not all the time or it would be OP hence the defensive AA fire ability being a thing simply because in real life 10 times as many planes would be flying toward ships and it would be too much strain for most peoples PC to animate that. 

 

Seriously try aiming your guns at planes next time you have that ability active and watch them drop, then the time after activate the ability and point your guns in the opposite direction and watch none drop, even with them selected as targets, thats how it seems to go with me, though i do admit it could be coincidence and down to as you said, RNG. 

 

It would not be the first thing in the game to be far more complicated than the description leads you to believe, Armour is a good example. 

 

Those 152mm guns were used for AA in real life, but in this game if they were it'd be shown on the AA tab of stats page.

The Japanese also used sharpnel shells for AA use, namely the Sanshikidan (or Type-3 Beehive shell), but they were really ineffective at their intended role and were preferred for ground bombardment instead. Same story for other nations, Flak rounds fired from main batteries were quite ineffective.

 

Long story short, it's just RNGesus playing a game with you.

 

Regarding plane disruption, it's because the density of fire that scared those pilots, long-range flak guns are not as scary as you might think.

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Yeah I remember that watching the WG video on USS Salem saying they were DP guns.

 

But the only light crusier with 6" DP guns was the Worcester Class

 

Ahh, 12 guns, 6 turrets, all DP. If she's in game she's flamethrower

Anyways, most powerful CL, good old worcester

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Yeah I remember that watching the WG video on USS Salem saying they were DP guns.

 

But the only light crusier with 6" DP guns was the Worcester Class

 

From what i know Clevelands 152mm guns were dual purpose also, I am not sure about Pensacola but both New Orleans and Baltimore 203mm guns were not, Des moines (Salem) re gained the ability, all the japanese cruisers with 203mm guns to my knowledge were also dual purpose. 

 

Correct me if i am wrong, i very well could be. 

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Those 152mm guns were used for AA in real life, but in this game if they were it'd be shown on the AA tab of stats page.

The Japanese also used sharpnel shells for AA use, namely the Sanshikidan (or Type-3 Beehive shell), but they were really ineffective at their intended role and were preferred for ground bombardment instead. Same story for other nations, Flak rounds fired from main batteries were quite ineffective.

 

Long story short, it's just RNGesus playing a game with you.

 

Regarding plane disruption, it's because the density of fire that scared those pilots, long-range flak guns are not as scary as you might think.

 

Are you sure it would be shown in the AA tab? 

Modules stats are not shown in the tabs, neither are captains skills, armour is no longer shown and neither are penetration values of different ships shells which yes do all have different penetration amounts, only way to tell which ships have better penetration atm is the ones that have higher shell velocities. 

 

My guess is because they are complicated stats to show wargaming has decided to hide them to save confusing the hell out of people. 

Penetration values for an example because AP shells lose penetration at longer range. 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Are you sure it would be shown in the AA tab? 

Modules stats are not shown in the tabs, neither are captains skills, armour is no longer shown and neither are penetration values of different ships shells which yes do all have different penetration amounts, only way to tell which ships have better penetration atm is the ones that have higher shell velocities. 

 

My guess is because they are complicated stats to show wargaming has decided to hide them to save confusing the hell out of people. 

Penetration values for an example because they lose penetration at longer range. 

 

Are you that doubtful of a person?

This is just RNGesus playing a game on you, go ask him instead.

 

 

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Super Tester
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From what i know Clevelands 152mm guns were dual purpose also, I am not sure about Pensacola but both New Orleans and Baltimore 203mm guns were not, Des moines (Salem) re gained the ability, all the japanese cruisers with 203mm guns to my knowledge were also dual purpose. 

 

Correct me if i am wrong, i very well could be. 

 

You would be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6%22/47_Mark_16

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[BLUMR]
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I don't think the Cleveland's 152mm count towards any AA damage since they aren't under the AA tab and I highly doubt WG would neglect to show information as important as that.

I think you know this already but I'll just mention it just in case:
Regardless of where you point your guns or where they are animated, AA works like an aura around your ship, dealing damage to aircraft that fly within the various gun-range that are listed in the AA tab.

An example would be the Atlanta, its main batteries are DPs yet you don't have to point them at any aircraft for them to count towards your AA damage.

I think you might be experiencing a pseudo effect, thinking that point your main batteries at aircraft would deal extra damage while in reality its more RNG giving you high damage rolls with your AA.

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[1NATN]
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In case you wondered: AA mechanics is highly random. There's almost no player-controlled factor that can affect the outcome aside one: setting priority target.

Doing so boosts the average AA DPS by 50%, but that's it. AA gun accuracy and stuffs like that are completely subjected to RNG.

 

 

 

That post is worth it's weight in gold, thank you sir.

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[SIF]
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in game is simple - if you have defensive fire, then your main guns are dual purpose. You do not have to aim the guns, and as far as I know, pointing the main guns at the aircraft will do nothing, aircraft damage is controlled by RNG

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Super Tester
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in game is simple - if you have defensive fire, then your main guns are dual purpose.

 

You guns are dual purpose if the same gun shows up as primary and AA armament.

 

EG: Atlanta 

 

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Beta Tester
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I didn't go up that high tier yet .... if you Main gun are DP .. then than mean we can shoot the main gun into the sky and shot down the plan? .. or it just another RNG thing

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I didn't go up that high tier yet .... if you Main gun are DP .. then than mean we can shoot the main gun into the sky and shot down the plan? .. or it just another RNG thing

 

another RNG thing lol

 

AA is totally controlled by the AI.  The only input you have is to CTRL and click a target to set priority.

If your rig can cope, turn everything up to max and fire at an enemy ship at the same time you are focusing on an aerial target.

It's quite unnerving to watch rounds go in both directions!

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Alpha Tester
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It's quite unnerving to watch rounds go in both directions!

 

 

It gives me an artificial sense of security :trollface:

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I don't think the Cleveland's 152mm count towards any AA damage since they aren't under the AA tab and I highly doubt WG would neglect to show information as important as that.

 

I think you know this already but I'll just mention it just in case:

Regardless of where you point your guns or where they are animated, AA works like an aura around your ship, dealing damage to aircraft that fly within the various gun-range that are listed in the AA tab.

An example would be the Atlanta, its main batteries are DPs yet you don't have to point them at any aircraft for them to count towards your AA damage.

 

I think you might be experiencing a pseudo effect, thinking that point your main batteries at aircraft would deal extra damage while in reality its more RNG giving you high damage rolls with your AA.

 

So i am right about ships like Cleveland then? 

How about the reload times of main batteries, are they affected when using defensive fire? 

If not they probably should be imo

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Will try, But i doubt that it won't make any difference. :D:D:D 

 

I should probably get a CV to join me in the training room and test it at some point, It honestly probably is coincidence, still if its not coincidence then it is something we need to know haha 

 

It would be like discovering that angling your ship can nearly double your effective armour again only its something to do with AA this time :P

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