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Fear_the_Reaper

Pensacola, New Orleans and Baltimore are all under powered

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After looking at the statistics what i have been saying since CBT has finally been confirmed, Pensacola, New Orleans and Baltimore are all terribly under powered when compared to their Japanese counterparts. 

Average for all players: Myoko, Mogami, Ibuki 

S8iMFDX.jpge0pgah6.jpgAverage for all players: Pensacola, New Orleans, BaltimoreS8iMFDX.jpg

AbFuogH.jpg This is 100% because the Myoko, Mogami and Ibuki all have the same DPM as the American ships using their main batteries with the added bonus of torpedoes (And before anyone says something about those 3 american ships having small citadels go play them.) 

All it would take to fix this disparity is increase Pensacola DPM to 4.5 rounds per minute, New Orleans to 5 rounds per minute and Baltimore to 6 rounds per minute.

It is either that or nerf the Japanese cruisers and i really do not want to see wargaming throw fun killing nerfs at them.... please.. buff the American ships instead. 

 

If Zao vs Des moines tells us anything they tell us that it is OP as all hell having the American ships fire so slowly considering how much more DPM Des moines can pump out with its guns yet Zao still beats her on average damage. 

YWWDgks.jpgnmzJoZv.jpg

^ (FYI Des moines range was nerfed while Ibuki received a DPM buff from CBT to OBT which i think may be a big causing factor behind this, another topic for another thread already covering 3 ships here)  

Stats page if anyone is interested in seeing other ships stats.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20150719/statistics.html

 

TLDNR: 

Pensacola needs 4.5 rounds/min DPM, New Orleans needs 5 rounds/min DPM, Baltimore needs 6 rounds/min DPM to compete with the Japanese cruisers. 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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They are a bit Ordinary, I guess.

 

They're not bad, but they had little selling point other than Good AA and the +0.3 ROF for every tier you goes up.

 

Would love to see the Baltimore had a ROF of 5; NO 4.6~4.7; Cola 4.2~4.3. Wouldn't be game breaking I guess - but I genuinely think they are okay as it is now. 

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They are a bit Ordinary, I guess.

 

They're not bad, but they had little selling point other than Good AA and the +0.3 ROF for every tier you goes up.

 

Would love to see the Baltimore had a ROF of 5; NO 4.6~4.7; Cola 4.2~4.3. Wouldn't be game breaking I guess - but I genuinely think they are okay as it is now. 

 

Thats the thing Cleveland has better AA than both Pensacola and New Orleans, only at tier 9 does it get better than Cleveland and it damned well should be better than Clevelands by then so they do not even really have AA going for them either considering tier 6 ships they get matched with are better at it. Though compared to japanese ships yeah they do out perform them. 
Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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I prefer giving USN CAs a faster shell velocity and better arc. Enough to compete with the IJN CAs.

 

Right now, they arc pretty high, and that's why they are a little worse compared to the IJN's.

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Thats the thing Cleveland has better AA than both Pensacola and New Orleans, only at tier 9 does it get better than Cleveland and it damned well should be better than Clevelands by then so they do not even really have AA going for them either considering tier 6 ships they get matched with are better at it. Though compared to japanese ships yeah they do out perform them. 

 

I think the Devs agree with you - So.... *SURPRISE* Nerf the Cleveland's AA instead.

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I prefer giving USN CAs a faster shell velocity and better arc. Enough to compete with the IJN CAs.

 

Right now, they arc pretty high, and that's why they are a little worse compared to the IJN's.

 

That and the fact that IJN fire just as fast when you account for their extra gun (10 instead of 9), they are faster ships and they get torpedoes. 

The American ships by default should have a marginally larger DPM ratio like is seen between Des moines and Zao. 

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I think the Devs agree with you - So.... *SURPRISE* Nerf the Cleveland's AA instead.

 

Or they could put Cleveland at tier 7 or 8... Make Pensacola tier 6, New orleans tier 7. Baltimore would still need a DPM buff up to 6 rounds per minute though.  
Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Or they could put Cleveland at tier 7 or 8... Make Pensacola tier 6, New orleans tier 7. Baltimore would still need a DPM buff up to 6 rounds per minute though.  

 

Until they implement CL line I suspect More nerf to Cleveland is still coming.

 

Poor Cleveland - New Marder II. Nerf like 10 straight patch and become a pile of Rubbish - Hope it don't go that way.

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That and the fact that IJN fire just as fast when you account for their extra gun (10 instead of 9), they are faster ships and they get torpedoes. 

The American ships by default should have a marginally larger DPM ratio like is seen between Des moines and Zao. 

 

The IJN CAs only have more guns if they move at an angle. 

 

Myoukou needs to turn more to use 6 front guns and even more to use both of the back turrets.

Mogami needs to turn less to bear 6 guns, but with enough pressure from the enemy, she can't turn more.

Ibuki have the same turrets as Mogami.

SenjouZao is the only IJN CA that has the USN's guns, 2 turrets that can fire without anything blocking the way.

 

Only the Cola gets 2 x 2 on the front.

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Until they implement CL line I suspect More nerf to Cleveland is still coming.

 

Poor Cleveland - New Marder II. Nerf like 10 straight patch and become a pile of Rubbish - Hope it don't go that way.

 

Ugh me too, Wargaming nerfing every single thing in a game until everything is bloody terrible annoys me it is the wrong way to go about things, it just progressively makes the game less fun, the right way to go is bringing under powered ships up to the level of those that are supposedly OP.
Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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The thing is, ultimately some ships will be more powerful than others. All ships cant be the same. Just so happens the US get the bad end of the stick.

 

What will happen when the other 3 nation lines come out? There will no doubt be differences between these ships, or do you want them to all be identical?

 

 

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The thing is, ultimately some ships will be more powerful than others. All ships cant be the same. Just so happens the US get the bad end of the stick.

 

What will happen when the other 3 nation lines come out? There will no doubt be differences between these ships, or do you want them to all be identical?

 

 

 

Not identical a Japanese ship and American ship have completely different play style, the end results should be simmilar from those different play styles though as in they should end up having near the same scores, this is why they nerf and buff certain tanks in world of tanks, this is an arcade game not warthunder naval forces.... It is already very unrealistic with ships having health pools instead of bouyancy being the killer, Guns do not fire their actual distances, heck BB secondaries should fire as far as a clevelands main guns. 

If this game was realistic it would simply be world of battleships vs carriers because all the other ships wouldnt be able to touch them. 

 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Not identical a Japanese ship and American ship have completely different play style, the end results should be simmilar from those different play styles though as in they should end up having near the same scores, this is why they nerf and buff certain tanks in world of tanks, this is an arcade game not warthunder naval forces.... It is already very unrealistic with ships having health pools instead of bouyancy being the killer, Guns do not fire their actual distances, heck BB secondaries should fire as far as a clevelands main guns. 

If this game was realistic it would simply be world of battleships vs carriers because all the other ships wouldnt be able to touch them. 

 

 

Yup, cuz da muricans are trained to be flamethrowers but da Japs are trained to make da torps OP

edit: so they have different playstyle

Edited by Conkhead_12

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Yup, cuz da muricans are trained to be flamethrowers but da Japs are trained to make da torps OP

edit: so they have different playstyle

 

yeah this exactly basically, Do not get me wrong i do not want to see them nerf the Japanese ships but that is what will happen if they do not buff the American ships.

 

Buffs and nerfs are based on statistics and wargaming would rather nerf one ship than buff another, this is basically me begging for them to make the game more fun not less. 

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yeah this exactly basically, Do not get me wrong i do not want to see them nerf the Japanese ships but that is what will happen if they do not buff the American ships.

 

Buffs and nerfs are based on statistics and wargaming would rather nerf one ship than buff another, this is basically me begging for them to make the game more fun not less. 

 

Still, I think USN CAs is very fine, I have no problems with it. 

Anyways, right now I'm trying IJN CAs

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Ugh me too, Wargaming nerfing every single thing in a game until everything is bloody terrible annoys me it is the wrong way to go about things, it just progressively makes the game less fun, the right way to go is bringing under powered ships up to the level of those that are supposedly OP.

 

Uh, no, that's called power creep and is a good way to ruin balance over the long term, WG isn't very good at balancing, which is why things usually take ages, and then the changes are either too much or too little, but to say that nerfing is always a bad idea speaks volumes about your understanding of balance.

 

And there's absolutely no reason for the Japanese cruisers to get nerfed, these ships aren't balanced in a vacuum, and the IJN cruisers aren't exactly over-performing.

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Uh, no, that's called power creep and is a good way to ruin balance over the long term, WG isn't very good at balancing, which is why things usually take ages, and then the changes are either too much or too little, but to say that nerfing is always a bad idea speaks volumes about your understanding of balance.

 

And there's absolutely no reason for the Japanese cruisers to get nerfed, these ships aren't balanced in a vacuum, and the IJN cruisers aren't exactly over-performing.

 

The statistics say they are despite what anyone says with their personal experience so yeah they will nerf the japanese cruisers if the American ones do not get buffed, just like they will nerf the cleveland and Omaha instead of buffing Fukutara and Aoba. 

The problem is they make fun ships no longer fun and ships that already struggle to be fun even less so.

It works both ways if all you do is nerf ships the game will end up being boring. 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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The general idea is to use a combination of buffs and nerfs, if I was a betting man I'd wager that the Furutaka will get buffed, while the Cleveland probably won't get nerfed outside of changes to the game mechanics (eg fires), also the Omaha is getting buffed apparently.

 

The point I was trying to make, if the American cruisers are UP (which they are), they will get buffed, the Japanese cruisers aren't OP just because the American cruisers are UP, because games don't constitute 12 USN cruisers vs 12 IJN cruisers of equal tier, hence why they won't get nerfed, ideally (I say this because I have no idea how WG actually balances) ships aren't compared to other ships of the same class when buffing/nerfing, they are compared to all of the other ships it faces, basically how it fits into the game, not how it fits in relation to what is essentially one or two other ships.

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The general idea is to use a combination of buffs and nerfs, if I was a betting man I'd wager that the Furutaka will get buffed, while the Cleveland probably won't get nerfed outside of changes to the game mechanics (eg fires), also the Omaha is getting buffed apparently.

 

The point I was trying to make, if the American cruisers are UP (which they are), they will get buffed, the Japanese cruisers aren't OP just because the American cruisers are UP, because games don't constitute 12 USN cruisers vs 12 IJN cruisers of equal tier, hence why they won't get nerfed, ideally (I say this because I have no idea how WG actually balances) ships aren't compared to other ships of the same class when buffing/nerfing, they are compared to all of the other ships it faces, basically how it fits into the game, not how it fits in relation to what is essentially one or two other ships.

 

What i have been told is they take the statistics shown from all the servers and make adjustments according to them 
Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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No.

These 3 ships deserve to be underpowered as punishment for the Cheatland.

 

They arent actually all that UP, but they are support ships. Especially the Pensacola, its hull is absurdly lightly armored, and thats a bit of a shock for players coming off the dakkaland. Lots of people probably wondering why their ship doesnt stand up against fire from anything (read the description you numpties) while they try and use the same bully tactics they perfected in the earlier US cruisers.

 

I may have totally rekt a Pensacola with an Omaha about 30 min ago. I dont understand some pubbies, why would you yolo out side on to where the enemy are going to be? 

Edited by karl0ssus1

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Just wait for the Soviet navy.

 

We all know they'll be better.

 

:P

:trollface:

 

p.s. some sarcasm might have been deployed in the writing of this comment. Some, but not entirely made from it.

from what i see from russian stronk premium ships i can already see that they are going to be bia... i mean stronk too. come one we know that the russian navy has defeated the japanese navy during the russo japanese one sidedly war and the japanese navy defeated the usn nave during WWII.

 that's why its logically that RUSSIAN NAVY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the rest of the world navy.

 

soon we will see ship that are made from stronk stalinium armor the stongkest armor that are invincible to enemy fire and they don't need FCS too because each shell are under the guidance of stallin to smash inferior imperialist and capitalist made ships. 

 

those who don't believe that the russian navy are the best should be sent to gulag for re-education about the glorious motherland navy. :izmena:

 

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This might be irrelevant but isn't those stats just from the Asian server? One would assume if we were able to get our hands on the NA or maybe even EU server's stats we might see a different picture?

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This might be irrelevant but isn't those stats just from the Asian server? One would assume if we were able to get our hands on the NA or maybe even EU server's stats we might see a different picture?

 

We're bigger than NA. The overall stats might be interesting though, but I see no reason why they would deviate significantly.

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