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CarbonMonoxide

need help for torpedo angle analysis

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Beta Tester
404 posts
1,148 battles

I've found a formula about the variation between time to react and angle of torpedo

It may help us figure out the best torpedo launching angle

and know more about the situation of IJN DD

 

t2=              s2                

     VT2+VS2-2VTVSCos X

 

t= time to react

s=torpedo spotting range

VT=torpedo speed

VS=target ship speed

X=angle between torpedo and target ship

 

I've tried to plot graph to see the time to react for some common DD against common BB

but all the graph generator I can find give me nonsense graphs,which give me incorrect values

can anyone give me links or help me to plot it?

 

btw, how should time required for turning X angle be calculated?

is it  t=2*pi*r*X ?

            360v

(r=turning radius,v=speed)

 

I hope starting a post to ask these questions won't break the rules

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Member
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371 battles

i calculated that, it needs not to know.

how do we shot torpedoes while we are thinking its a orbit?

that's very hard.

so, we shot those by feeling, it's a  effective method.

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Beta Tester
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I've calculated the best angle is point blank range :trollface:

 

Me when I Charge in a DD:

URAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Edited by Alvin1020

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[POI]
Super Tester
350 posts
3,601 battles

Who needs maths, all you need is:

 

No Dissent, No Shame, No Regret!

***** The soul of a torpedo girl *****

Aim True Never Miss!

 

You have earnt my like XD

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Beta Tester
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i calculated that, it needs not to know.

how do we shot torpedoes while we are thinking its a orbit?

that's very hard.

so, we shot those by feeling, it's a  effective method.

well...

I've seen too many miss in my hatsuharu and mutsuki

I've seen too many extremely-easy-to-evade torpedo in my battleships

so I wanna find the best angle to launch it

it may not help us very much

I'm just curious

Who needs maths, all you need is:

 

No Dissent, No Shame, No Regret!

***** The soul of a torpedo girl *****

Aim True Never Miss!

that's what I'm looking for when I'm playing IJN DD

but by the time you get the mutsuki

it never hit

Angles do not affect torpedo damage

angles do not affect torpedo damage

but it affect how much time you have for evading it

in other words, angles affect accuracy(and accuracy affect damage)

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Alpha Tester
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angles do not affect torpedo damage

but it affect how much time you have for evading it

in other words, angles affect accuracy(and accuracy affect damage)

 

The only thing affecting how much damage a torpedo does to your ship is on which section of the ship it hits.

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Beta Tester
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The only thing affecting how much damage a torpedo does to your ship is on which section of the ship it hits.

 

sorry if I misunderstand your statement

 

yes, angles don't change the torpedo damage

but you can only deal 0 damage if they don't hit

I'm trying to figure out how to maximize the possibility of hitting

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Alpha Tester
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I've found a formula about the variation between time to react and angle of torpedo

It may help us figure out the best torpedo launching angle

and know more about the situation of IJN DD

 

t2=              s2                

     VT2+VS2-2VTVSCos X

 

t= time to react

s=torpedo spotting range

VT=torpedo speed

VS=target ship speed

X=angle between torpedo and target ship

 

I've tried to plot graph to see the time to react for some common DD against common BB

but all the graph generator I can find give me nonsense graphs,which give me incorrect values

can anyone give me links or help me to plot it?

 

btw, how should time required for turning X angle be calculated?

is it  t=2*pi*r*X ?

            360v

(r=turning radius,v=speed)

 

I hope starting a post to ask these questions won't break the rules

 

Youre either overthinking this, or not thinking about it enough. The obvious answer is shooting at a ship travelling towards your torps will generate the shortest reaction time, but that doesnt take into account a lot of factors regarding likelihood of a hit (that maths is linear, when the denomination is largest, t2 is smallest, denomination is greatest when the cos(x) term is negative, cos(180)=-1).

 

If you really want to run a detailed analysis of this (which is going to be pretty pointless because you'll never use it in game), you need to consider rates of turn, cross sectional target area and torpedo spread. 

 

Because all that is a monumental waste of time, Im going to mock up some images in MS Paint to demonstrate a rule of thumb that will actually be applicable in battle instead.

Edited by karl0ssus1

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Alpha Tester
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Right, awful MS Paint images done. Polygon art is polygons, I dont have fondletons mad skillz at freehand MS Paint drawings.

 

 4HWEgwQ.pngtWIXv0n.pngG9Xa7WB.png

You'll note theres a theme here, deflection aiming means that shooting from behind a travelling object generates some quite extreme angles, but the shots taken from between 20-45 degrees ahead of the target generate reasonable cross sections and have higher closing rates. Ideal shots would be launched from ahead of the targets direction of motion, with an impact angle of no more than 20 degrees, as this gives a large target area, and decreases reaction time.

Edited by karl0ssus1

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Alpha Tester
372 posts
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Just enjoy the game when launching your Torps just know how to predict the enemy movement will do you don't need maths lol 

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Beta Tester
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Youre either overthinking this, or not thinking about it enough. The obvious answer is shooting at a ship travelling towards your torps will generate the shortest reaction time, but that doesnt take into account a lot of factors regarding likelihood of a hit (that maths is linear, when the denomination is largest, t2 is smallest, denomination is greatest when the cos(x) term is negative, cos(180)=-1).

 

If you really want to run a detailed analysis of this (which is going to be pretty pointless because you'll never use it in game), you need to consider rates of turn, cross sectional target area and torpedo spread. 

 

Because all that is a monumental waste of time, Im going to mock up some images in MS Paint to demonstrate a rule of thumb that will actually be applicable in battle instead.

I've considered rate of turn, that's why I ask about the turning time

cross sectional target area and torpedo spread...I can't reach them

I was going to calculate them after the rate of turn but I'm stuck here

 

btw, the graph isn't linear, it's similar to the cosine graph

it reaches the minimum at X=180, but it goes up again from X=180 to X=360

Right, awful MS Paint images done. Polygon art is polygons, I dont have fondletons mad skillz at freehand MS Paint drawings.

 

 4HWEgwQ.pngtWIXv0n.pngG9Xa7WB.png

You'll note theres a theme here, deflection aiming means that shooting from behind a travelling object generates some quite extreme angles, but the shots taken from between 20-45 degrees ahead of the target generate reasonable cross sections and have higher closing rates. Ideal shots would be launched from ahead of the targets direction of motion, with an impact angle of no more than 20 degrees, as this gives a large target area, and decreases reaction time.

your pictures...they're actually what I want to talk about

the ideal shot's angle is obviously around 90

but what I want to know is, picture 1 or 2, which is better?

in 2, the ship have less time to react but the turning time will be lower at the same time

may the ideal angle actually be around 100?

Just enjoy the game when launching your Torps just know how to predict the enemy movement will do you don't need maths lol 

whatever you do, they'll just miss

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Beta Tester
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Me when I Charge in a DD:

URAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

 

 

That gave me chills. 

I bet that in real life that would have had an effect very similar to the Haka, as performed by the Maori.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that in WWI a german sniper killed a Maori while he was 'on the toilet' (A major affront to the Maori) So the Maori under a British officer got up out the trench against orders, performed the Haka and charged the German position. The Germans fled in fear.

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Alpha Tester
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I've considered rate of turn, that's why I ask about the turning time

cross sectional target area and torpedo spread...I can't reach them

I was going to calculate them after the rate of turn but I'm stuck here

 

btw, the graph isn't linear, it's similar to the cosine graph

it reaches the minimum at X=180, but it goes up again from X=180 to X=360

your pictures...they're actually what I want to talk about

the ideal shot's angle is obviously around 90

but what I want to know is, picture 1 or 2, which is better?

in 2, the ship have less time to react but the turning time will be lower at the same time

may the ideal angle actually be around 100?

whatever you do, they'll just miss

Eh, Im not talking strictly linear, just using it as a shorthand for describing the pretty simple relationship. Youre only concerned about the T vs 1/-cos(X), everything else can be considered constant.

 

I speculated that the ideal angles would sit somewhere between 90-110 (i.e, between pic 1 and 2) in my write up, but to decide with any more precision, you need to start taking all those other factors into account. And thats honestly more effort than Im willing to put into this. Note that that equation you put in the OP already contains more information than is easily accessible in game, and its actually only valid when X  = 0 or 180, so theres little point going into an excessive amount of maths for something that can be pretty quickly eyeballed to within the precision youre going to require in game.

 

The basic rule of thumb is, the less maneuverable vessels would be closer to pic 1, and more maneuverable vessels closer to pic 2.

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Beta Tester
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 The basic rule of thumb is, the less maneuverable vessels would be closer to pic 1, and more maneuverable vessels closer to pic 2.

 

"closer to"

what do you mean?

better to launch like pic 1 against less maneuverable vessels and pic 2 against more maneuverable vessels?

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