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pancakeofdoom

my conclustion of destroyers late game

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Member
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This is my own opinion which iv culminated from playing high tier DD from tier 6 to 7. I don't have concrete facts as I simply can't get the information on WG statistics it solely based on what iv seen my self. which may be incorrect and is open to interpretation. 


 


 

I thought id make this post to help people who where in my position. I really enjoyed playing JPN Destroyers in the early game from 1-5   but tier 6 you get a ship that really is inferior you has a huge reload time for it torpedos. Torpedo spotting range goes up nearly two fold and making thing very difficult.  even with larger turning radius ships  seem to easily see them coming and are able to move. you can circumvent this by the fact you get more torpedos the fubuki get 9 and the tier 10 ship get 15 but it a massive grind to get that far and is it really worth it.


 

planes also become a huge problem I found it extremely difficult getting close enough.

and launching at long range where it takes over a minute to get to the target simply leaves to much to go wrong.


 

iv noticed a lot of times Minekaze are getting sucked into those high tier games as match making can't find enough high tier destroyers. I rarely see a fubuki and iv only seen a Shimakaze once. 


 

which really makes me suspect lot of people are reaching my conclusion. I maybe wrong I don't know as I don't have a all the facts I don't have the information WG has.


 

But in my own opinion I am having more fun playing in tier 4 games.


 

this chart is second hand information which iv been unable to verify but iv been assured is accurate.

this chart really high lights just how difficult it gets in higher tiers for destroyers.


 

2ep3g2a.png

 

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Alpha Tester
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I'm about to spoil something

 When it was Alpha test and Weekend test, the Torpedoes is still lethal. Until they Increase the detection range to 1,4 times of normal Detection range. For the worse, Smoke Won't cover your torpedoes from enemy planes (even if the planes can't see you) and the smoke now get Nerf as well

 

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Beta Tester
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Kinda understand how ya feel :D:D:D

 

Thats why ive move to the USN DD line, But u have to understand that IJN DD is Torpedoes machine their Torps have longer range and deal more Dmg more over u get more Torps per broad side so its easier to make it connect to targets or simply spam, So u have to make use the advantage of your ships thats all i can say. :D:D:D

P.S. if u think im not qualified to answer juz check my status lol.

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Member
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stop cry , your ships are borderline op , learn to play .

 

 

 

I think you need to go and learn how to speak English first off and maybe also how to interact with people in public.

It not "stop cry". (it stop crying)

 

 

 

 

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Moderator
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Torpedoes are still incredibly lethal at higher tiers - but necessitate actual skill in using them instead of the close-range torpedo spamming of tiers 3-5. Whereas a low tier can afford to simply charge in and dump torps willy-nilly on the white aim assist path, Mutsuki and up are better off sending their torpedo spreads from beyond their detection range, and using the aim assist as a guideline to dump one set of torps in the target's path, and another to where its predicted to dodge. There's a pretty large sweet spot for destroyers, a window where they are in range for long-range torpedo attacks whilst still being undetected by a target ship. And despite the large reaction times you see on the table (which was one I linked here, actually), it's not nearly enough for battleships to dodge since it takes upwards of 10 seconds to shift the rudder from the moment torpedoes are detected (not to mention some cruisers aren't able to, either). 

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ST Coordinator
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As someone who plays IJN DD in CBT and OBT I can agree everything changes after Minekaze.

 

At Tier 4/5 there is less planes in the air and your torpedoes are faster to reload and faster (the 7Km ones). You detection range of your own DD is also shorter at those tier, even so with less planes in the air, less chance to get spotted to, so easier to score hits.

 

Once you get pass Minekaze, everything changes you have slow reload and slow torpedoes which gets detected so early you either have to banzai charge to get a kill, shoot around islands or hope the other guy is stupid and doesn't notice it and go straight (Yeah with your crew shouting in your ear TORPEDOES TO PORT!!!!!). It doesn't help at this point on, CV (or worst 2 CV) worth of planes are in the air, making it impossible to even get within striking range of the enemy before you get spotted AND every ship opening fire on you.

 

Not to say its impossible, but if the stars align, you can get a good game in a DD, if not, be prepared to sink to Iron Bottom Sound very early.

Edited by Windforce

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Alpha Tester
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I think you need to go and learn how to speak English first off and maybe also how to interact with people in public.

It not "stop cry". (it stop crying)

 

 

 

 

 

Take a lesson yourself LOL. 

 

The correct way is "It's, stop crying" or "it is, stop crying".

 

 

EDIT: BTW, this post makes no claim that my Engrish is perfect.:trollface:

Edited by Krieg

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Beta Tester
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Torpedoes are still incredibly lethal at higher tiers - but necessitate actual skill in using them instead of the close-range torpedo spamming of tiers 3-5. Whereas a low tier can afford to simply charge in and dump torps willy-nilly on the white aim assist path, Mutsuki and up are better off sending their torpedo spreads from beyond their detection range, and using the aim assist as a guideline to dump one set of torps in the target's path, and another to where its predicted to dodge. There's a pretty large sweet spot for destroyers, a window where they are in range for long-range torpedo attacks whilst still being undetected by a target ship. And despite the large reaction times you see on the table (which was one I linked here, actually), it's not nearly enough for battleships to dodge since it takes upwards of 10 seconds to shift the rudder from the moment torpedoes are detected (not to mention some cruisers aren't able to, either). 

 

Those that aren't actively dodging should get hit, but then you only get one or two if lucky. 

 

Then we get torpedo bulges for fun, laughter, peace and joy.

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Beta Tester
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OP hasn't encounter kagerou and shimakaze torpedo. specially at map like ocean whenever i saw a clump of ship with battleship an cruiser escort i will just target the very first bb, doesn't matter if she change course i will still able to hit two or ship and probably sink escorting cruisers.

 

hell with even with proper play-style mutsuki,hatsuharu and fubuki are still deadly. mutsuki can safely stalk un-escorted battleship at 7km range fire her torpedo without being detected. 

 

the only problem on OB is they change mutsuki torpedo, iirc back in cbt her torpedo use to be minekaze upgraded 10km slow torpedo but now its furutaka 6km range torpedo. not a problem because it still .5km farther than usn torpedo you will have to change your play-style to USN DD (using island for cover to ambush unsuspecting enemy) until the 10km torpedo are available.

 

tldr version: stop spamming torpedo and learn how to properly play destroyer.

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Beta Tester
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Torpedoes are still incredibly lethal at higher tiers - but necessitate actual skill in using them instead of the close-range torpedo spamming of tiers 3-5. Whereas a low tier can afford to simply charge in and dump torps willy-nilly on the white aim assist path, Mutsuki and up are better off sending their torpedo spreads from beyond their detection range, and using the aim assist as a guideline to dump one set of torps in the target's path, and another to where its predicted to dodge. There's a pretty large sweet spot for destroyers, a window where they are in range for long-range torpedo attacks whilst still being undetected by a target ship. And despite the large reaction times you see on the table (which was one I linked here, actually), it's not nearly enough for battleships to dodge since it takes upwards of 10 seconds to shift the rudder from the moment torpedoes are detected (not to mention some cruisers aren't able to, either). 

 

nah, the average reaction time(as shown in the table) of IJN high tier torp is around 12 second

you can never hit a BB with torp whatever you do(unless the BB is noob)

 

"using the aim assist as a guideline to dump one set of torps in the target's path, and another to where its predicted to dodge."

this is what will happen(sorry that my drawing skill isn't good)

未命名 -1.png

未命名 -2.png

未命名 -3.png

BB can easily evade the torpedo you carefully launched like the pictures

 

IJN DD can launch torpedo without being detected?

yes, but your torpedo cannot hit the target

so you're not advancing, it's just a draw

 

"it's not nearly enough for battleships to dodge since it takes upwards of 10 seconds to shift the rudder from the moment torpedoes are detected"

8second rudder shift time for Myogi, what does that mean?

it means you take 8 second to shift your rudder from fully turning left to fully turning right

in normal cases, BB are going straight forward at the time they spot torpedo

it only takes 2 seconds to start turning. 2 more seconds to complete the rudder shift

you still have 8-10 seconds turning, absolutely enough for any BB regardless how large your turn radius is

未命名 -1.png

未命名 -2.png

未命名 -3.png

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ST Coordinator
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Don't forget you can even make your turn radius smaller with a hard reverse as you turn then full speed forward.

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Alpha Tester
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Don't forget you can even make your turn radius smaller with a hard reverse as you turn then full speed forward.

 

it's not smaller

It just, combining slowing move and turning will make less chance to get hit (but not medium to close range shells)

(OH, AND YES EDIT: The Destroyer can Turn in Smaller Radius in slower Speed)

Edited by Harpoon01

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Super Tester
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Based on experience with IJN DD up till Bucky, yes there's a HUGE shift in the play style for IJN DD. No longer it's the spam machine but the probability of a fail torpedo run is increased exponentially. 

 

Up to Bucky, you're still capped at 10km so the margin of error is slightly less than shooting with 15km torps. Also, yes, you can remain undetected while dropping your fish in the water as long as you don't stray into your surface and air detection range. Though shooting at range, there's 1001 variables that you have to take to account. Once you dump your fish, just pray that your targets remains on course or at the very minimum, helps your team to buy some time since the enemy are busy dodging it. Though the most wonderful thing is that your torpedoes hit unintended targets that so happen to run into your spread.

 

Managed to kill a Gearing and Zekamashi in CBT thanks to that.

 

As for planes being a problem, one easy way to stop them from spotting you is to turn off your AA simply by pressing "P"

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Beta Tester
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As for planes being a problem, one easy way to stop them from spotting you is to turn off your AA simply by pressing "P"

 

"P" is not helping (who plays with AA "ON" ?) :amazed: , because if you are spotted by a plane you have 1 Fighter from CV for the entire game over you, until you can manage to reach friendly AA.

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Beta Tester
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tier 6-7 of the IJN line is bad so this rant is expected. this topic has been debated countless times and my hope for a change is null so just grit your teeth or off you go.

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Beta Tester
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tier 6-7 of the IJN line is bad so this rant is expected. this topic has been debated countless times and my hope for a change is null so just grit your teeth or off you go.

 

yeah, WG staff:you can hit a BB with torpedo when he isn't concentrating

DD and torpedo may still get further nerf

 

if you can, trying to get the shimakaze ASAP so you can enjoy before the nerf that makes shimakaze useless

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Alpha Tester
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It is curious that the IJN DDs end up with torps that give their targets around 25% more reaction time than their USN equivalents from tier 6 and up.

 

 

Sure, longer range is nice, but if the warning time Is such that all but the idiots will avoid them what use is it?

That and the reality that the number of planes in the air at those tiers mean the likelihood of torps not being spotted from outside the minimum possible is often pretty high.

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Alpha Tester
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It is curious that the IJN DDs end up with torps that give their targets around 25% more reaction time than their USN equivalents from tier 6 and up.

 

Pretty sure torpedo detection range is directly based off range, so the longer the range the further away it gets detected.

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ST Coordinator
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I want to clarify regarding AA "P" button.

 

If you are spotted by planes, there is no point in keeping your AA off, so turn it on. If you are sitting in smoke, you can be blazing all your DP guns at the planes above you and they won't see you.

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Beta Tester
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I want to clarify regarding AA "P" button.

 

If you are spotted by planes, there is no point in keeping your AA off, so turn it on. If you are sitting in smoke, you can be blazing all your DP guns at the planes above you and they won't see you.

 

Except smoke dissipates quickly now so you will get spotted again regardless. 

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ST Coordinator
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Except smoke dissipates quickly now so you will get spotted again regardless. 

 

If the plane is above you, you will get spotted anyway so....... FIRE EVERYTHING !!!!!!

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Alpha Tester
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Pretty sure torpedo detection range is directly based off range, so the longer the range the further away it gets detected.

 

 

Which makes next to no sense IMO.

 

 

Surely the important factor is how long you have to dodge it assuming you see it at the minimum distance regardless of how far it's travelled to that point?

 

 

If I'm the target that's what I worry about. If I get 12 seconds to dodge it I don't really care if you fired it from 5km or 15km.

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Beta Tester
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If the plane is above you, you will get spotted anyway so....... FIRE EVERYTHING !!!!!!

 

Are you trolling ? AA on my DD´s are less in firing distance as Plane spot-range and have the power to take down just Bird-pooh.

If I shoot (if I could), the chance is 100% to be spotted further 20 seconds, as to hope for to get out of spot-range.

 

@Steeltrap

If I'm the target that's what I worry about. If I get 12 seconds to dodge it I don't really care if you fired it from 5km or 15km.

 

Yes fully correct, the mechanic needs to be tweaked.

Furthermore the limit to Torpdistance should be at 10km maximum range.

 

Very often you find yourself with leftover torps, shooting at target, and the rest is going 30 seconds later into one of your teammates.

15km and 20km torps are just a pain for the team.

 

Except 1 Map, to be the Ocean Map where the long distance torps are an advantage, but that's the only Map and no one likes it.

 

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Alpha Tester
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I happen to think Ocean is the best map of all. Great for testing alleged balance, great for requiring effective team play rather than having zones everyone goes to based on their ship type.

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