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Fear_the_Reaper

Pensacola and Cleveland need to swap places

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Now i know this is going to be a very unpopular opinion based on how much everyone loves stomping on tier 4 and 5 ships in a Cleveland because heck i love it too but it is about time we stop the "shhh don't tell the devs" on this topic and fix the balance issue here, the Cleveland is by far my favourite ship so i am in no way being biased when i say it is in the wrong place on the tech tree, this ship does not struggle at all with fighting tier 7-9 ships and it is completely unfair for it to be getting matched up against tier 4-6 ships as it simply rips them apart with its 17.4km firing range and insane DPM.

 

Pensacola would make a great tier 6 replacement ship in my opinion, It is quite comparable to an Aoba at tier 6 but not a Myoko at tier 7, the myoko simply out classes Pensacola when it comes to most aspects of fighting with its superior fire power, longer range and added bonus of torpedo tubes where Myoko does not out class a Cleveland in all those areas. 

 

With Mogami and Myoko switching places in was it 3.0? i am really surprised Cleveland and Pensacola have not received the same treatment yet. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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Super Tester
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well I did once suggest for a split for light cruisers and heavy cruisers (I think the RUdevs already planned for it long before I had suggested) so it might be possible we will see both Pensacola and Cleveland in the same tier although the question remains on how in the world will one fill in the blanks. Cleveland as far as I know unloads like a Des Moines. the light cruiser at tier 6 can be a souped up Atlanta the Juneau since Atlanta currently is a gold ship (if this is so, then why not swap? the Juneau as tier 7 gold and Atlanta tier 6 normal) whilst the tier 7 light cruiser the Cleveland.

 

the swap aside, wouldn't this break the transition to heavy cruiser in the current build? suddenly putting the heavy cruiser Pensacola at tier 6 will start to zigzag the US cruiser line since at tier 7 the Cleveland would force you to behave as a light cruiser again. its going to be very strange, even if the combat stats atm say otherwise. its still a heavy cruiser and from the lulzy experience at CBT, a reasonably solid one.

 

remember that the current line that is zigzagging is the Japanese battleship tree (tier 3-4 starts with slow dreads, tier 5 throws them into a fast battleship, tiers 6 and 7 goes back to dreads, tier 8 forces them to go back to fast battleships)

 

as for the Mogami-Myoko switch, I think I remembered that many were saying that Mogami is best at tier 8 because she's more solid than Myoko.

Edited by EvyL

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Super Tester
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Naah..... the Mogami & Myoukou swap is all right since both are Heavy Cruiser.

But Cleaveland is Light Cruiser and later Pensacola is Heavy Cruiser.

The concern is the tier 7 Pensacola should be & intentionally a game changer after the U.S. Light Cruiser, so we need to shift to other tactics.

Edited by Mingfang47

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Super Tester
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Cleveland? more like Cheatland

 

I've played 15 games in it and lost 3.

 

It really is a Winrate padder, Once you get used to the guns you really can carry hard and the fact it has an extremely small citadel location (despite its huge size for a CL) means you can duel against battleships and have no relative fear of losing.

 

at 17.4km its kinda crazy with that captain skill...

 

 

doe that shell hang time... I feel like I'm firing mortars at the enemy.

Edited by iLordShade

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Alpha Tester
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Mingfang, that point about CA v CL may be true but in general terms RoF trumps calibre far too much.

 

To that end the Cleveland is a superior ship for its tier compared with Pepsi at its.

 

Whether they should swap tiers is another matter, however.

 

Problem is massed RoF and HE spam = fires of doom that vastly increase the effectiveness of guns that frankly should be little more than an irritation to a true BB.

That's the root cause of the effectiveness of the Cleveland. It out RoF anything else that's a CA, shreds DDs, and HE fire spams BBs. It also has some serious AA capacity, even though that has been nerfed.

 

In short there's little it can't do. It's true that it's now far more possible to get a cit hit with AP from a high calibre gun (was all but impossible once), but there really are NO opponents the Cleveland can't engage and expect some chance of either winning outright or at least leaving the opponent much the worse for wear even should they win.

 

Just about the perfect ship in some respects.

Edited by Steeltrap

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I think since WG has done diverging and converging tech tree branches in WoT, they can surely do it in WoWS too,

 

Cleveland seems fine from CBT experience, but I wouldn't mind if its RoF was toned down a fraction if they did nerf it.

 

I personally think adding another tier 7 or 8 cruiser would be nice, my suggestion for the candidate being the Brooklyn class or St Louis (WW2 era) cruisers with thier 15x6" guns in 5 triple turrets, putting them on par with the Mogami.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn-class_cruiser

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis-class_cruiser_(1938)

 

The lack of 8" guns for this cruiser is why I would still perhaps consider it a possible tier 7 ship

Edited by Blitzkreig95

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I'm up for up-tiering the Cleveland. However, the Pensacolla would be a bit too powerful at tier6, I laughed a bit when you say the Pensacolla is comparable to the Aoba.

Look at how many guns Aoba has compare to the Pensacolla, look at their armor comparison, look at their AA capabilities. Yeah, it won't work.

 

And also, those 2 captain skills that boost 155mm guns and lower are messed up, they should not apply to main guns (but WG is drunk and they did it, and so we have this tier6 cheating machine).

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And also, those 2 captain skills that boost 155mm guns and lower are messed up, they should not apply to main guns (but WG is drunk and they did it, and so we have this tier6 cheating machine).

 

But my DD's need them guns to be able to you know, be useful, especially USN DD's

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I'm up for up-tiering the Cleveland. However, the Pensacolla would be a bit too powerful at tier6, I laughed a bit when you say the Pensacolla is comparable to the Aoba.

Look at how many guns Aoba has compare to the Pensacolla, look at their armor comparison, look at their AA capabilities. Yeah, it won't work.

 

And also, those 2 captain skills that boost 155mm guns and lower are messed up, they should not apply to main guns (but WG is drunk and they did it, and so we have this tier6 cheating machine).

 

Its kinda off-topic abit, Yes those skills should not apply to main gun for some reasons, but if they remove the effect on main gun USN DD going to get nerf even more... since USN DD need support skills for low caliber gunnery like -10% reload time on basic firing-training to be able to fight off CAs. :D:D:D  

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Super Tester
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But the Cleveland uses a smaller caliber gun, and the Pepsicola is a citadel hit pumping machine.

Edited by ExESGO

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But the Cleveland uses a smaller caliber gun, and the Pepsicola is a citadel hit pumping machine.

 

But 152 HE Rain.

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Super Tester
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But 152 HE Rain.

 

Therefore I push we move the St. Louis to Tier IV.

Also, I will point out that the Cleveland is a CL, the Pepsi is a CA.

Edited by ExESGO

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Super Tester
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They'll probably split CA and CL lines in the future, so I don't think the current tech tree layout will be permanent by any stretch.

 

The awkward transition from tier 6 to tier 7 is that you're essentially moving from a late-war era light cruiser to a treaty-era heavy cruiser. I'd say that once CA and CL lines are separated, the Pepsi-Cola should probably be a tier 5 or 6 heavy cruiser, with relevant nerfs to fit it into place at those tiers.

 

The Pensacola class of cruisers commissioned in the late 1920s were "treaty cruisers" limited by the Washington Naval Treaty, and hence had a maximum 10,000 ton displacement and 8 inch calibre limit for main batteries. The Cleveland class, on the other hand, were commissioned from 1942 onwards and were much more modern in design.

 

WG seems to have the intention of putting heavy cruisers later down the tech tree, after light cruisers, at least until they split the branches. This however means that we have awkward jumps such as the Pepsi-Cola, which is by large a downgrade from the Cleveland.

 

pRXDXJA.jpg

Edited by benlisquare

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That's how IJN CA players feel when they reach T5.

 

Slow reloading, sluggish turrets traverse rate, fewer guns, high rudder shift time and armor made of tissues with "shoot me in the citadels" sign on it.

 

Try Furutaka and you will feel the pain. At least, at T7 or above are much better.

 

 

Pepsicola may be a bad ship compared to Cleveland which can rekt almost everything, but I think she is a good transition to USN CA.

 

Time to adapt :P

Edited by Menrva_Scarlet

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There's certainly nothing wrong with the Pepsi as such; I wasn't meaning to give that impression.

 

Just seems the Cleveland stands out as exceptional.

Oddly enough I didn't mind the Aoba, either, although it seemed less consistent.

 

With limited slots I have to pick and choose which lines to play. I suspect I'll go USN over IJN in nearly every class, and might not even bother going past tier 6.

 

A friend (and others) being unable to play due to client-server de-synch for 6+ weeks and WG not saying a word about it, even deleting the whole 'bugs' thread where things like that remained unresolved, coupled with the fact that I'm much more stringent on where to spend my gaming $$ these days, means I probably won't spend a cent until I see if and how WG might have changed in certain respects. So far I see little evidence of them improving in areas that affect my willingness to spend money.

Edited by Steeltrap

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Just seems the Cleveland stands out as exceptional.

Oddly enough I didn't mind the Aoba, either, although it seemed less consistent.

 

 

Aoba is not a bad ship - it's just the Cleveland is relatively stronger than it.

 

Japanese 8 inch gun handles very well in my personal experience. And the Torps are surprising useful despite what many said.

Edited by Alvin1020

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Super Tester
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My personal choice for tier 10 CL line: The Worchester Class.

 

0fa4ac392ca13c1cf25fb9b5d75d176f.png

 

AAA Heaven and aircraft denial. Imagine the range on DP 6in guns. Although let's assume for a moment that they do add CLs at higher tiers into the game. What role do they play and how do they affect the current rock, paper, scissors, spectator support triangle of the current game?

 

Because honestly, I don't know how I feel about low alpha, high RoF in the CLs and high alpha, low RoF in the CAs. It feels like they'd be equal in the end in terms of DPM but I guess to take from another game, CL's become are like your light tank bruisers, and CAs become your chai sniping baddehs. Also there would have to be a greater distinction between the range of 6in/152mm guns and 8in/203mm guns.

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When you have a ship the size of a small dreadnought packing a fifteen gun main armament, defining it as "light" or "heavy" based on a two inch difference in the calibre of said armament seems a little silly. If one looks at the Royal Navy, the "Town" class light cruisers such as HMS Belfast were manifestly more powerful ships than the "County" class heavy cruisers, even though the latter carried 8 inch guns.

 

I'm a newcomer to this game so I'm still struggling to accumulate enough experience points to get an Omaha, but I can see the argument about the Cleveland. The tier a ship is at should depend on an aggregate of its power, not its classification according to the Washington Naval Treaty.

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When you have a ship the size of a small dreadnought packing a fifteen gun main armament, defining it as "light" or "heavy" based on a two inch difference in the calibre of said armament seems a little silly

 

Regardless, this is how they classified ship in that period and is how we classify them here.

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