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pancakeofdoom

JPN DD worth it

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i wounder if there are any testimonials on high tier JPN DD because i really liked 4 5 but after getting to tier 6 im really wondering weather it even worth bothering.


 


 

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Alpha Tester
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Adapt your play-style, the spammy torpedoes of low tiers are always looked down upon by hight tier DD users.

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Beta Tester
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Adapt your play-style, the spammy torpedoes of low tiers are always looked down upon by hight tier DD users.

 

When did that ever happen?

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Beta Tester
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Adapt your play-style, the spammy torpedoes of low tiers are always looked down upon by hight tier DD users.

 

:great:

 

Mutsuki is playable. It's just relatively not as good as the Minekaze which is borderline Overpowered. In CBT I like to stick with a Cruiser or a BB to provide AA support due to it's Great AA, and Rush out to attack what they are shooting at.

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Super Tester
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i wounder if there are any testimonials on high tier JPN DD because i really liked 4 5 but after getting to tier 6 im really wondering weather it even worth bothering.

 

Don't upgrade Pantsuharu to her 2nd hull, you'll want that additional turret even if it's only a single-barreled one.

Install the modification for longer firing range and get the captain's skills that boost gun performance further.

(Basic&Advanced Firing Training & Aiming Expert)

 

Focus on using both guns and torpedos, Pantsuharu is centered around a dual-playstyle utilizing both of those,

while earlier JP DDs focused on torpedoes and occasional salvos for extra damage.

 

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Beta Tester
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Don't upgrade Pantsuharu to her 2nd hull, you'll want that additional turret even if it's only a single-barreled one.

Install the modification for longer firing range and get the captain's skills that boost gun performance further.

(Basic&Advanced Firing Training & Aiming Expert)

 

Focus on using both guns and torpedos, Pantsuharu is centered around a dual-playstyle utilizing both of those,

while earlier JP DDs focused on torpedoes and occasional salvos for extra damage.

 

 

Retia would that argument extend to the USN Farragut and Benson as well?

They have better stock torpedoes (debatable on Farragut -  shorter range, better damage, vs longer range less damage) and their stock hulls have more guns, the USN DD's main weapon?

Edited by Blitzkreig95

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It feels kinda downhill since Minekaze.  Slow torps, only two launches of 3 each up until about T8-T9

 

Once torps pick up in speed and you get 3 launches for better spread to counter dodging it gets a bit better. 

 

Another downside is the XP cost to make your new ship better then your previous one. (sometimes)  The torp XP upgrade costs when you should get them are very expensive.

 

Adapt your play-style, the spammy torpedoes of low tiers are always looked down upon by hight tier DD users.

 

Disagree about the spammy torps, it was one of the best things about Minekaze.  If your reload is so high that you can keep filling the seas with them.  How does not taking advantage of it make any sense.
Edited by CatbugPuppyCat

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:great:

 

Mutsuki is playable. It's just relatively not as good as the Minekaze which is borderline Overpowered. In CBT I like to stick with a Cruiser or a BB to provide AA support due to it's Great AA, and Rush out to attack what they are shooting at.

those who go into DD line now realise that it's a scam

I can't see any good point on mutsuki

probably good AA, but still relatively weak

awful guns, can't even damage a DD, it will also get a reload nerf in the next patch

useless torpedo, when I see mutsuki's torpedo coming towards my myogi, I wanna laugh at it

I have far more than enough time to evade it

it has excellent mobility and concealment, but it's useless if it doesn't have firepower

 

you won't get any better grinding upward

 

Don't upgrade Pantsuharu to her 2nd hull, you'll want that additional turret even if it's only a single-barreled one.

Install the modification for longer firing range and get the captain's skills that boost gun performance further.

(Basic&Advanced Firing Training & Aiming Expert)

 

Focus on using both guns and torpedos, Pantsuharu is centered around a dual-playstyle utilizing both of those,

while earlier JP DDs focused on torpedoes and occasional salvos for extra damage.

 

 

tier 6 IJN DD

isn't he talking aboout mutsuki instead of hatsuharu?

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Super Tester
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If you think 10km torpedoes are fun, wait till you try 15km...

 

Yes, tier 6 Pineapple-chan is like a downgrade from Minekaze. Back in CBT, I kept Minekaze despite having Bucky since Minekaze is indeed borderline OP

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Super Tester
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Retia would that argument extend to the USN Farragut and Benson as well?

They have better stock torpedoes (debatable on Farragut -  shorter range, better damage, vs longer range less damage) and their stock hulls have more guns, the USN DD's main weapon?

 

These are the things the Faragut gains from her last upgrade:

- 600 HP

- 1.8 rudder shift time

- More useless AA guns

- 6k damage on torpedoes

 

Leaving the torpedoes out, because the Farragut is a pure gun destroyer that only has torpedoes for those "Once in a while" situations.

You gain nothing useful and trade a gun for it... your main source of damage... ... I'll leave the rest of the explanation to common sense and logic.

 

The Benson however is a different number.

Just look at the stats it gains from it's last hull:

- 2600 HP

- 1.8 rudder shift time

- More "meh" AA guns

- 2700 damage, 1.8km range and 16s reload on torpedoes

 

We all know that 2600 extra HP isn't much, but for a DD that's a lot, that's 1-3 additional shots survived.

Leaving rudder shift time and meh AA guns aside the torpedoes also get a huge upgrade.

Of course, 8.2km range isn't much on paper, especially when compared to Fubuki's impressive 15km.

However, take a note on the rather low, but not too low gun firing range on the Benson.

~11.6km (without captain's skill) means that you can open fire with your guns, quickly get into torpedo range while firing, and launch torpedoes.

 

It's the Hatsuharu, with the only difference being that instead of not upgrading to the 2nd hull, you have to upgrade to get those comparable torpedoes,

while you also keep a good amount of offensive capability for your guns.

The Farragut doesn't get that, it loses torpedo efficiency, sure damage goes higher, but 4.5km at tier VII? Yeah sure... good luck with that.

 

probably good AA, but still relatively weak

 

Stop using her 3rd hull, why anyone would want less guns in trade for sub-par AA capabilities is beyond me (._. )

 

tier 6 IJN DD

isn't he talking aboout mutsuki instead of hatsuharu?

 

He's worried about the ships after Mutsuki not being worth it, leaving aside that Mutsuki is a good ship, neither bad nor great,

that question is best replied to with insight on the next ship, i.e. Pantsuharu.

 

Edit: As for Mutsuki, pretty much the same thing on a smaller scale.

Stay on the 2nd hull, because 3rd hull = 2 turrets... lol... 2 SINGLE mount turrets... LOL.

 

If those were dual mount turrets like Yubari has, then go-ho-yo-ho that would be a deal I'd take, but single mount?

On guns that are highly accurate and great to get an additional couple thousand damage and set targets on fire?

Not to mention that they're great against other DDs?

Yeah, no, 2nd hull with 4 turrets it is.

Edited by Retia

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Super Tester
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well... IMHO:

 

USN destroyers are destroyer hunters whilst IJN destroyers are anti-surface ships aka anything floating on the surface shall die.

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Super Tester
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well... IMHO:

 

USN destroyers are destroyer hunters whilst IJN destroyers are anti-surface ships aka anything floating on the surface shall die.

 

AKA.... SUBMARINES ON SURFACE ATTACK!!!

 

SEE!!! WG indeed has given us SUBS!

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These are the things the Faragut gains from her last upgrade:

- 600 HP

- 1.8 rudder shift time

- More useless AA guns

- 6k damage on torpedoes

 

Leaving the torpedoes out, because the Farragut is a pure gun destroyer that only has torpedoes for those "Once in a while" situations.

You gain nothing useful and trade a gun for it... your main source of damage... ... I'll leave the rest of the explanation to common sense and logic.

 

The Benson however is a different number.

Just look at the stats it gains from it's last hull:

- 2600 HP

- 1.8 rudder shift time

- More "meh" AA guns

- 2700 damage, 1.8km range and 16s reload on torpedoes

 

We all know that 2600 extra HP isn't much, but for a DD that's a lot, that's 1-3 additional shots survived.

Leaving rudder shift time and meh AA guns aside the torpedoes also get a huge upgrade.

Of course, 8.2km range isn't much on paper, especially when compared to Fubuki's impressive 15km.

However, take a note on the rather low, but not too low gun firing range on the Benson.

~11.6km (without captain's skill) means that you can open fire with your guns, quickly get into torpedo range while firing, and launch torpedoes.

 

 

Cheers, though the question for the Benson's torpedoes remains, as 52 knots (I think) is very slow for torpedoes and even the tier 4 Clemson has higher speed torps (54 knots I believe) and the poor rate of fire on the Benson's launchers means that realistically you only have 1 chance to launch torpedoes and as you said long range torpedo spamming isn't a useful tactic at higher tiers (Hopefully the players at this level are smart enough to manoeuvre more so that such attacks won't work).

 

Therefore wouldn't sacrificing range and a little damage be more acceptable to have torpedoes that are harder to dodge, and thus more likely to score hits (64 knot speed)? :P

Edited by Blitzkreig95

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Super Tester
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AKA.... SUBMARINES ON SURFACE ATTACK!!!

 

SEE!!! WG indeed has given us SUBS!

 

how do you depth charge subs then?

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Super Tester
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Cheers, though the question for the Benson's torpedoes remains, as 52 knots (I think) is very slow for torpedoes and even the tier 4 Clemson has higher speed torps (54 knots I believe) and the poor rate of fire on the Benson's launchers means that realistically you only have 1 chance to launch torpedoes and as you said long range torpedo spamming isn't a useful tactic at higher tiers (Hopefully the players at this level are smart enough to manoeuvre more so that such attacks won't work).

 

Therefore wouldn't sacrificing range and a little damage be more acceptable to have torpedoes that are harder to dodge, and thus more likely to score hits (64 knot speed)?

 

The problem is how gun destroyers maneuver.

In order to get the best combination of firepower (I.e. all/almost all turrets capable of firing) and dodge chance

you'll have to sail towards the target or away from it at such an angle that allows for the turrets to fire.

 

The start of an engagement usually then means sailing towards the target, unless it was a rare case of running around an island and into a target that wasn't spotted before.

Since the later case is rather rare, I'll focus on the first one. (Plus it's pretty much just the reverse situation anyway)

Obviously you can't keep sailing towards the target, especially CAs will gain a huge bonus to their hitrate below ~7km,

thus sooner or later (Hopefully after the target has fired and missed) you'll turn around and begin the withdraw.

 

The withdraw itself is only a retreat by name, it's pretty much just part of the maneuver to gain vital distance between the target and yourself again.

Now during the switch from lowering the distance to gaining distance again you'll have the chance to utilize these torpedoes of yours.

 

And this is where the most important part comes in.

No, a decent CA player will prolly not get hit by those torpedoes, however he will have to maneuver out of the salvo's path and this translates into two

very important things:

 

1.) His attention shifts to dodging the torpedoes and away from shooting your ship.

2.) Even if he's still shooting at you, he won't be capable of firing all his guns anymore.

 

Hence your survivability until you reach a safe distance goes up by a lot.

 

Additionally a bad player will keep his course, potentially because he's frustrated after not hitting a smaller ship that he "should" be able to "blow out of the water".

And then he'll get hit by torpedoes, maybe not all of them, maybe just 1... or 2, but usually more than enough to make him regret that decision.

 

There is of course a reasonable idea behind sticking to the short range torpedoes and picking the 5 turrets instead, for example if you play in a

DD squadron you'd prolly only need 1 DD to do the above mentioned maneuver while the other two blast away from safe distance.

And there's probably other methods and tactics that either utilise the stock or upgraded versions, too.

Feel free to play around and test things as much as you'd like, that's the only way to find out. ;)

Edited by Retia

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The problem is how gun destroyers maneuver.

In order to get the best combination of firepower (I.e. all/almost all turrets capable of firing) and dodge chance

you'll have to sail towards the target or away from it at such an angle that allows for the turrets to fire.

 

The start of an engagement usually then means sailing towards the target, unless it was a rare case of running around an island and into a target that wasn't spotted before.

Since the later case is rather rare, I'll focus on the first one. (Plus it's pretty much just the reverse situation anyway)

Obviously you can't keep sailing towards the target, especially CAs will gain a huge bonus to their hitrate below ~7km,

thus sooner or later (Hopefully after the target has fired and missed) you'll turn around and begin the withdraw.

 

The withdraw itself is only a retreat by name, it's pretty much just part of the maneuver to gain vital distance between the target and yourself again.

Now during the switch from lowering the distance to gaining distance again you'll have the chance to utilize these torpedoes of yours.

 

And this is where the most important part comes in.

No, a decent CA player will prolly not get hit by those torpedoes, however he will have to maneuver out of the salvo's path and this translates into two

very important things:

 

1.) His attention shifts to dodging the torpedoes and away from shooting your ship.

2.) Even if he's still shooting at you, he won't be capable of firing all his guns anymore.

 

Hence your survivability until you reach a safe distance goes up by a lot.

 

Additionally a bad player will keep his course, potentially because he's frustrated after not hitting a smaller ship that he "should" be able to "blow out of the water".

And then he'll get hit by torpedoes, maybe not all of them, maybe just 1... or 2, but usually more than enough to make him regret that decision.

 

There is of course a reasonable idea behind sticking to the short range torpedoes and picking the 5 turrets instead, for example if you play in a

DD squadron you'd prolly only need 1 DD to do the above mentioned maneuver while the other two blast away from safe distance.

And there's probably other methods and tactics that either utilise the stock or upgraded versions, too.

Feel free to play around and test things as much as you'd like, that's the only way to find out. ;)

 

Fair enough, as you said, I did already realise the benefits of the top hull for the Benson, but I guess I forgot about the distraction factor even for slow torps - ALL HAIL RETIA!!

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Beta Tester
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I think Gun on IJN DD is almost useless from slow turrent rotate ...
DD need the swiff attack, moving left / right to avoid getting shot

and even more useless when go melee with another DD, gun won't turn fast enough to aim at target
so I think only torp are main armament

... or unless there some way to lock turrent in one place when you aiming the torp and use the gun like destroyer in WoT that move the hull to aim and use tureent just only to fine aim it

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I think Gun on IJN DD is almost useless from slow turrent rotate ...

DD need the swiff attack, moving left / right to avoid getting shot

and even more useless when go melee with another DD, gun won't turn fast enough to aim at target

so I think only torp are main armament

... or unless there some way to lock turrent in one place when you aiming the torp and use the gun like destroyer in WoT that move the hull to aim and use tureent just only to fine aim it

 

Izokaze and Tier 7 or above IJN DD are more like hybrids. Don't waste their gun - still usable. 22/25.7 Turning time isn't as bad as the 40 seconds or so.

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Izokaze and Tier 7 or above IJN DD are more like hybrids. Don't waste their gun - still usable. 22/25.7 Turning time isn't as bad as the 40 seconds or so.

 

their gun is usable

but their torpedo is useless

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Will they buff back the torpedoes

oh wait

THEY WON'T

 

Storm in 2014 - "Arty will not be touched"

Storm in 2015 - "We will rebalance it very soon (Because we can copy Armor W_____'s model)"

 

WG, Y U SO SILLY?????

Edited by Alvin1020

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Super Tester
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why everyone only see her downside

think about the 5.7km concealment she got :D

real battle starts from Tier 6

spamming torpedo are just for newbs

Edited by R3negade

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why everyone only see her downside

think about the 5.7km concealment she got :D

real battle starts from Tier 6

spamming torpedo are just for newbs

 

why you only see her pros?

think about the torpedo detection range

even if I launch my torpedo at 5.71km carefully in my mutsuki towards a sluggish fuso(or even yamato), you surely won't get a hit unless the BB is a noob

 

real battle starts from tier 6, torp spam is only for newbs, I agree, but spamming torpedo is the very only effective way to attack with torpedo

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