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EvyL

random thought for discussion: battlecruisers

the battlecruisers  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. would you want the battlecruiser as a separate ship type or a new line in the battleship tree as 'fast' battleships?

    • yes - even if they are reformatted, they are still battlecruisers originally
      9
    • no - battlecruisers, either reformatted or modernized, should stay in the battleship line. they play the same way as battleships do
      6
    • battlecruiser? wuzzat?
      2
    • more targets. perfect.
      6

12 comments in this topic

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Super Tester
1,677 posts

well... this is just a fun thought that slapped me directly in the face when I was looking at the Alaska cruiser's line drawing since there are some nations that have them, paper or real (also had a lulzy time of reading the paper ships Germany had). note that this is concepting the stats to in-game levels. feel free to throw historical stuff for additional info plis. 

 

prepare for TL;DR

 

since this is for those that dedicated themselves wholly on the battleship lines because two lulzy mentalities probably popped up, the "BOTTLESHEEP MUSTARD RACE" and those that refuse to use guns as they believe they are above them with "GET AWAY FROM ME FILTHY GUN FIRING PEASANT!", this just came into mind. now both the standard battleship and the battlecruiser are capital ships (if you wish to know, there's a thread at the WWII historical section about my thoughts about BB's vs CC's in terms of their construction with info on how they behaved in the water from guys such as Syanda to boot) but they are a bit different to each other. sure some pack battleship grade guns of 14 to 15 inches but if we speak of armor and speed, battlecruisers have a bit less armor but more speed which if retrofitted, could easily reformat them to fast battleships. in-game wise, this wont matter squat to the carriers and destroyers since they treat EVERY surface ship as expendable but for cruiser players, I think its going to be another story entirely. if going by the lulzeries of history, the first battlecruiser action happened in WWI at Heligoland Bight where the UK cruiser and battlecruiser squadrons 'accidentally' the German cruisers there, killing their overall commander Leberecht Maass (KanColle players may know of this name since the Z1 destroyer is his namesake). one of the more crazy actions happened at Jutland as they were the first ships to see the action although they whacked each other so hard that it wasn't that surprising that most were sunk or severely damaged before the main fleets went in like prissy hacks and started to brawl that had T crossed for maximum giggles. 

 

currently, Japan is the only nation that has battlecruisers in their fleet at the moment... well, at stock they are since their upgraded hulls reformat them but there are some ships that "might" not fight in the battleship line as they have rather... slightly atypical configs. some examples I can say that can probably go to that notion are Alaska, Stalingrad, the Dutch 1047 (all I see are plans and the armor layout, never the projected look of it), Hood/Renown and Scharnhorst.

 

one thing that was quite wonky to have railed info on was the Scharnhorst since some treat it as a battlecruiser whilst the Germans stand that she's a battleship though I suspect she can do both roles as she can, either standing in the line alongside full battleships or go cruiser killing and merchant raiding. hell, even the RUdevs at one point said they treat her as the former (was at pre-alpha at NA and the info raiders said she's more likely to be tier VII). one thing that was unusual for a capital ship of her caliber was her gun compliment of 11 inches. normally guns of that size were on their old battlecruisers but at some point in paper they went 15 inch on their projects. I can speculate her in-game as a ship that can act as a battleship and cruiser killer but its most likely they'll increase her shot deviation in order to not let her become like that. there's also the Renown/Repulse which technically is a longer Revenge but knowing the RUdevs, they might paint her gold but her performance would be more or less a faster Revenge unless they worsen her shot deviation or ergonomics like they had done in Warspite's range for balance lulzery (I hope Warspite's lead ship, Queen Liz, will have longer range like about 24km with scout and range increasing crap for the lulz since her famous little sister has been nerfed so she would bring glory to them).

 

the stuff I think that would happen should the atypical ships or battlecruisers that did not have reformats that packed 11-13 inch guns (strangely, those ships that pack 14 to 15 inch guns are reformatted. dafuq) be treated with difference, it would most likely be:

 

- a capital ship having increased potency against cruisers as well as cruisers having increased potency to destroy that capital ship

- a ship that hits like a battleship but is more or less a really big heavy cruiser thats probably gonna turn painfully slow

- load time for each turret will likely be that of 23 seconds (Japan's first heavy cruiser in the line, Furutaka, loaded at 19-21 seconds whilst the US counterpart, Pensacola, loaded at 14 seconds). well the RUdevs could always treat their guns as battleship level and have them load at 30+ seconds to further restrain them from re-enacting the Ocean Cruiser Massacre

- full battleships will destroy them since the armor was good vs cruiser guns but never large caliber ones on battleships

- will be insanely easy for destroyers to torpedo. if I remember correctly, the torpedo blister isn't that defensive unlike their battleship colleagues' own

- gun range will likely be at the 18-19km. I have no idea if historically the battlecruisers ever outranged the full battleships although to be fair, the reformatted ones HAVE the range of a full battleship

- the shot deviation for these types is still up to speculation or discussion

 

despite being battlecruisers, it would be very VERY scary to see these on the cruiser line since, as what I have said, they will behave as very large heavy cruisers if the RUdevs decide to treat them as the cruiser killers they were intended to be (standing alongside the battleships in the battle line was something they were eventually tasked to do and can be treated as their secondary role aside from them going Jack the Ripper on any cruiser they see)

 

random babbling is over. and yes, I liek bottlekroozas.

 

discuss.

 

that is all.

Edited by EvyL

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Alpha Tester
6,604 posts
2,477 battles

Battlecruiser

A battlecruiser, or battle cruiser, was a large capital ship built in the first half of the 20th century. They were similar in size and cost to a battleship, and typically carried the same kind of heavy guns, but generally carried less armour and were faster. The first battlecruisers were designed in the United Kingdom in the first decade of the century, as a development of the armoured cruiser, at the same time the dreadnought succeeded the pre-dreadnought battleship. The original aim of the battlecruiser was to hunt down slower, older armoured cruisers and destroy them with heavy gunfire. However, as more and more battlecruisers were built, they increasingly became used alongside the better-protected battleships.

 

Battlecruisers served in the navies of Britain, Germany, the Ottoman Empire, Australia and Japan during World War I, most notably at the Battle of the Falkland Islands and in the several raids and skirmishes in the North Sea which culminated in a pitched fleet battle, the Battle of Jutland. British battlecruisers in particular suffered heavy losses at Jutland, where their light armour made them very vulnerable to large-caliber shells. By the end of the war, capital ship design had developed with battleships becoming faster and battlecruisers becoming more heavily armoured, blurring the distinction between a battlecruiser and a fast battleship. The Washington Naval Treaty, which limited capital ship construction from 1922 onwards, treated battleships and battlecruisers identically, and the new generation of battlecruisers planned was scrapped under the terms of the treaty.

 

Pretty much their job are Basically Battleship's job in this game

Edited by Harpoon01

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Senior Moderator
4,798 posts
1,924 battles

The split would make sense in game play variation.

Think Maus/E100 v T110E5/IS7 - both sets are HT but one goes for big armour and is sloooooow, the other is more lightly armoured and quicker.

In tactical terms, your BattleCruisers sail out with your Cruiser screen to remove the enemy screen, while your Battleships make their way up to lay down the smack on the enemy BBs.  Once the enemy screen is removed, the BC join the BB gun line to add more smack on the enemy BBs.

Edited by dead_man_walking

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Alpha Tester
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But the problem is not all  Battlecruiser can reach Late tier (8 and up) except for Certain British Battlecruiser

Fast Battleship should be the one in late tier

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Super Tester
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hence why some battlecruisers upgraded become fast battleships under the Washington Treaty. if we treat them as such then the then-remaining souped up battlecruisers of the RN, the Hood and Repulse of the ill-fated Force Z, will be treated as fast battleships in the game much like Kongo and Amagi. but one of the defining traits of a battleship is its gun compliment with them usually packing the biggest guns on the fleet and frankly, if those battlecruisers that pack 11 to 13 inches serve in the battle line, I doubt if they could deal that insane a damage per shot since full battleships had protection usually from 14 to 16 inch guns although to be fair to them, they fire faster than their fellow capital ships and it would probably be a dream to have them pack the heaviest AA in terms of their fellow battleship colleagues.

 

dead has a sound notion on gameplay for these though (IMHO, the ships and mechanics can be polished, its putting these ships and balancing them the more wonky factor) and the pop cap for the battlecruiser is at WWI and early interwar for the built ones whilst the paper cruisers that may have design studies that were done for their potential build and inevitable reformatting. it also might be useful for CW (I had a very very early concept for clam warz back at pre-alpha on paper but I don't think anyone would be interested in that long tl;dr concept. if there are, I could write it down tonight) though. the max that can be considered floating in concept alone for these ships will be:

 

- ships that have 11 to 13 inch guns with armor rating enough against heavy cruisers and did not have reformats may be placed within the cruiser line as a feasibility test for their ability as cruiser killers

 

- ships that have 14 to 16 inch guns with armor rating enough against other battlecruisers that had reformats can be placed as fast battleships 

 

this arrangement still leaves holes for Scharnhorst as she is, for lack of words to describe, both a battlecruiser and a battleship respectively and unless there are data of her 11 inch guns, which is kinda that most solid gun Germany crammed onto their own CC's, being capable of dealing really scary damage against full battleships such as the superdread Queen Liz because if she slugs it out with a Nagato or Colorado, I don't even know if she can smash the two of them as they can virtually smash each other but this isn't saying she's a bad ship but this is assuming that she's an insanely good cruiser killer. she'd probably be the only battleship that unloads really fast for all battleships which is also scary.

 

... now I want the Alaska, Derflinger, Stalingrad and the Renown some more.

Edited by EvyL

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Alpha Tester
523 posts
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Pretty much their job are Basically Battleship's job in this game

 

Except most of the examples used here have less armor and lower caliber guns then the rest of the Battleships in the game, so folding them into the regular BB lines will create playstyle inconsistencies. The Japanese CCs are a separate kettle of fish, as they were upgraded to BB standards of protection, so they still fit in with the other Japanese BBs. Hood also got the same treatment, substantial armor upgrades that in theory made her a match for most 30s BBs.

 

Im with Dead, trying to split them off the main BB lines where possible for playstyle variation would solve the problem nicely. They can still be BBs as far as the game is concerned, and it doesnt cause unusual playstyle changes within lines.

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Super Tester
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Except most of the examples used here have less armor and lower caliber guns then the rest of the Battleships in the game, so folding them into the regular BB lines will create playstyle inconsistencies. The Japanese CCs are a separate kettle of fish, as they were upgraded to BB standards of protection, so they still fit in with the other Japanese BBs. Hood also got the same treatment, substantial armor upgrades that in theory made her a match for most 30s BBs.

 

Im with Dead, trying to split them off the main BB lines where possible for playstyle variation would solve the problem nicely. They can still be BBs as far as the game is concerned, and it doesnt cause unusual playstyle changes within lines.

 

and there's the Japanese BB line as well since it literally zigzags for playstyles. from the agonizing dreads of tiers 3 and 4, the line suddenly gives you a battlecruiser reformatted to fast battleship that you have to adjust since she can't take a lot of punishment than her normal dread colleagues, tiers 6 and 7 return you to more tougher dreads and tiers 8 and 9 are the final zigzags 

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Member
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I would honestly welcome this change really. Gives a lot more flexibility to the BB class as right now it's pretty stagnant in it's role. I can agree wholeheartedly how zigzag the gameplay style is in the IJN line. My PTSD over the Kawachi is still rather fresh even if  i have Kongou(desu!). A seperate branch would certainly give players a bit of comfort and familiarity. It worked for some tank lines in WoT it could work over here.

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Super Tester
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I would honestly welcome this change really. Gives a lot more flexibility to the BB class as right now it's pretty stagnant in it's role. I can agree wholeheartedly how zigzag the gameplay style is in the IJN line. My PTSD over the Kawachi is still rather fresh even if  i have Kongou(desu!). A seperate branch would certainly give players a bit of comfort and familiarity. It worked for some tank lines in WoT it could work over here.

 

at the current meta, cruisers are the more versatile ships, especially when one gets on heavy cruisers and soon light cruisers. introducing capital ships whose main purpose was cruiser killing and second line support assuming the notion some of them did not have reconstruction plans might change the scene although destroyers still won't give a damn about because what a surface ship is, whatever its type, is still a target to blow out of the water and carriers feel the same way.

Edited by EvyL

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Senior Moderator
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Don't forget WG have well and truly proven that a line doesn't have to start at tier 2 and finish at tier 10 (Germans I'm looking at you zigzagging all over the place!).

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Super Tester
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Don't forget WG have well and truly proven that a line doesn't have to start at tier 2 and finish at tier 10 (Germans I'm looking at you zigzagging all over the place!).

 

well in tonks Germany DID have a crapload of concepts although their capital ships probably won't zigzag that much unless other ship types they got such as cruisers turning pocket battleships or destroyers going unique (frankly, didn't they have the most hax U-boat fleet to the point they actually played 'pin the depth charge on the U-boat in the Atlantic?)

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Super Tester
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I gotta admit, its likely the ones who treat battleships as targets are hardcore destroyer and carrier players.

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