Jump to content
EvyL

some stuff on battleships and cruisers

6 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Super Tester
1,677 posts

I'm not sure if I can give some stuff since I'm a terribad through and through (atm I'm still reeling because I forgot to sheep at low tiers), I can at least give some stuff this terribad has seen on the while. excuse my colorful style since I tend to deviate even in thoughts. well the seasoned ones in these regards can correct but this is just a general idea, not an in-depth one since some of the more experienced players can give that much to you in specific ships. well, as nations are added, I think I can put guides on here as well in regards to cruisers and battleships. aircraft carriers and destroyers aren't my full thing, sadly.

 

so... let the TL;DR commence.

 

 

normally, there are four types of ships that suit with players: the venerable battleship's might, the overwatch of the aircraft carrier, the versatility of the cruiser and the mobility and potency of the destroyer. adding to this, there are actually two generalizations you should need to know since this will probably help you not to waste your lives away in domination match: the battleship and aircraft carrier are the capital ships or the principal ships in surface engagements whilst the cruiser and destroyer are workhorse ships that serve as the base for the navy.

if the carriers and battleships are the hammer, the cruisers and destroyers are the anvil. you may have noticed why battleships and carriers deduct 90 points off your team in domination when they sink whilst the cruiser and destroyer deduct 60 and 40 points respectively, since it kinda goes some ways at best; if the capital ships (BB.CV) are destroyed, the navy has no force to project, but if the workhorse ships (CL, CA, DD) are destroyed but the capital ships are intact, they can still project force with the navy. you get the flippin idea regarding the hammer and anvil shtick.

 

each has their own abilities but each has their own issues. an example of this is of the humble destroyer; while her torpedoes are very potent against any surface ship its to face, she's as fragile as a wet cardboard since virtually EVERYTHING, yes including secondary batteries, can blow her out of the water, or think of the imposing aircraft carrier that can virtually strike everywhere that's incredibly vulnerable when any surface ship gets close enough for weapons range. at this notion, I give my thoughts about two of a navy's ship that makes up their composition as a navy: the cruisers and the battleships.

 

 

CRUISERS

the cruiser in the game is a very versatile ship. it is also the more potent AA platform that the battleships sorely need. aside from providing second line support within the battle line, the cruiser should at most stick to the bigger battleship to screen it from aircraft since a battleship is, despite its own AA suite, is still very much vulnerable to aircraft attacks like dive bomber squadrons making their run or torpedo squadrons about to drop their torpedoes in the water. if we speak of their capabilities as a surface combatant, then it would be their capability to virtually evaporate destroyers in a hail of shellfire, preventing an aircraft carrier from putting squadrons in the sky by setting its flight deck on fire, and keep battleships in check by giving them something to worry about as well as their secondary role of being AA screens. a cruiser is also a good secondary armament destroyer as most of the guns on a battleship or a carrier will be destroyed from the constant shelling, leaving the big ships a bit weakened in terms of firing at close range enemies when their main batteries are reloading. you also have to 'round juggle' between HE and AP most of the time, because your AP shells cant do squat against bigger ships unless you aim at the right spot and HE can give you some form of damage as well as setting their main decks on fire. here's what I can generalize with the cruisers:

 

Japan

their cruiser line may seem very strange to some but Japan's cruisers are quite solid despite how they look and they are the only cruisers in the game to pack torpedo tubes albeit not as effective and as long ranged as their destroyer colleagues.

 

if you chose this nation's cruiser line, you will get to be in the bridge of a heavy cruiser much earlier than the United States since at tier V, your first heavy cruiser is Furutaka although her shot deviation is a bit high, turrets turn slow and she loads fairly slow. now for the dedicated detailfags, the reason why she did not get her 1941(?) refit is probably because she would be very similar in performance to her successor, the tier VI Aoba and would have probably been absurdly solid for her tier. but if you insist on wanting her 40's config, feel free to express your thoughts by a thread but mind you, it has already happened although I dont think its gonna hurt a second time if you compose it as reasonable as possible.

 

the earlier light cruisers can give you an information on how they work. the cruiser Chikuma is a reasonable gun platform that can pelt enemy cruisers with relative ease unless they unload faster than you. if we speak of Tenryuu and to an extent Kuma, I can probably advice that you shouldn't treat her as a typical light cruiser since in all senses, she behaves like an oversized destroyer. not that its a bad thing but this is an advantage since she is fast and she unloads fast so you can harass with impunity other ships but its tier III light cruiser counterpart, the St. Louis should be a ship to be wary of since despite packing torpedoes, the St. Louis will virtually gun down the Tenryu if you decide to engage her on a salvofest.

 

Aoba should play like a more souped up Furutaka, giving you enough time to sit comfortably behind the helm of Japan's heavy cruisers in the future. one of their cruisers I believe most would enjoy very heartily is the Mogami since even at stock she is still quite solid. if you wonder why she has 155's for a supposed heavy cruiser... well... the London Naval Treaty happened. this treaty was basically "if you build ships, do so in these levels of restriction included" that technically would nerf ships that came out of the shipyards and Mogami was one of the ships that got nerfed in a sense but technically, its basically the Rising Sun's sly way to cheat the ship nerf. after Japan went "nope nope nope scratch this treaty we gon' build our own ships on our terms!", she got her stuff upheaved and was reclassified as a heavy cruiser and now packs 203's. if you encounter a Mogami, be absolutely wary of her guns since she can use two at her disposal; the 155's unload very fast, perfect if you love setting ships on fire or whacking their modules and he 203's if you wish for more potency in the guns. she also has a rather solid AA suite that's reasonable enough to screen allied warships.

 

if you reach the end cruiser, the Zao, you should have learned everything that you picked up starting from Aoba to Ibuki since if we speak of ideals, the Zao should be the pinnacle of Japanese heavy cruiser thought. she's solid enough to take a bit more punishment than a typical cruiser, her guns are also good, some reporting they could rail in citadel hits by AP shells alone and she deals a bit more damage in a single salvo.

 

United States

their cruiser line follows the 'orthodox' style of saving more hardy ships at later tiers at most. those who will want to reach this stage would get their first heavy cruiser at tier VII, two tiers late than the Japanese but still a very solid cruiser in itself. this isn't saying their light cruisers are bad as they are solid ships as well even for the Japanese but this is assuming that most would want to get a heavy cruiser as soon as possible. the fun thing about the USN cruisers is that they deviate a bit from norm if you noticed it and the fact that they have very good AA suites and are usually the most solid in terms of AA screening.

 

Chester of tier II and St. Louis at tier III can be considered gun platforms rather than light cruisers since their guns virtually drown anything in a hail of shellfire and are effective at literally evaporating destroyers, giving enemy cruisers an annoyance and sometimes having the enemy battleships bear their guns at them. the Phoenix at tier IV however, that starts to change. at this stage, you gain mobility and fast firing guns as well as torpedo tubes for it and its successor at tier V. no longer are you the gritty gun platform that shoots at anything that looks at you funny but a nimble ship that can rain hell on anyone that you don't like. at tier VI, what you learned in both Phoenix and Omaha can be useful for the Cleveland which is, at the moment, the end of the USN light cruisers. it combines the fast gunfire of the St. Louis and Omaha with some of the mobility of both Phoenix and Omaha into a four triple turret light cruiser that can take a little bit more punishment than its predecessors although it loses its torpedo tubes.

 

at tier VII however, everything starts to change for the cruiser line when you get the Pensacola. its more sturdy than a light cruiser and it now packs 8 inch/203mm guns which make it as solid as its counterpart the Myoko in terms of guns however her gun arrangement is unique since the superfiring turrets (the one on top of the turret on the deck) only carry two guns but this detail is negligible for its offensive capabilities. tiers VIII and IX, the New Orleans and Baltimore respectively, are the more modern USN heavy cruisers and what you learned from the Pensacola will still apply on these cruisers although in respect to the Baltimore, think of it as a more solid heavy cruiser that packs a more solid punch and faster rate of fire. hell, you could say it can outmatch its counterpart Ibuki if you play her right.

 

and the last cruiser is the very peak of their cruiser engineering: the Des Moines. the cruiser in terms of gun can only be described in one word: incredible. the Des Moines has a load time of 6 seconds in each turret and if given enough skills, it can unload a lot of 8 inch shells in under a minute, 90 shots max if you unload it by the salvo. this ability is virtually unrivaled by any cruiser and the only ship that it you can feel this type of vigor is the Cleveland with its own loading time and with this loading time, destroyers literally disappear, cruisers are going to be incredibly wary of you and battleships will pay more attention to you when you are still out there. as the end-tier cruiser, its AA suite is incredibly superb to the point two Des Moines cruisers are virtually peerless when it comes to AA screening. it also has a very reasonable armor belt so torpedoes sometimes wouldn't cause flooding and secondaries should deal lesser damage.

 

 

BATTLESHIPS

well... some of the navy nuts want to be in the helm of the mighty battleship and who could blame them? at its time, it was THE most domineering thing you could see on the sea and rightfully so. if the aircraft carrier projects its force through its planes, the battleship IS the force in the sea. until 1941-42, the battleship was a symbol and pride of a country that could build such armored behemoths and having that in their navy means that they can match anything an enemy could in terms of capital ship building. although... after World War I the first ship nerf cometh. if we talk of lulz with WoT references, SerB went back in time and had ghost written the clauses for the Washington Naval Treaty which was in effect, the first gigantic hard nerf of all capital ships to be made and present. but lulz aside, this was made so that the arms race of 'gee, that capital ship looks noyce. now how do I make something better than it?'  that would had happened ceased. in-game, you can see where stuff starts to deviate between the nations by their line and you can adjust your gameplay accordingly:

 

Japan (I can say a couple since I was in these because I wanted certain ships here)

for battleships, the line is a bit deviating if we speak of ships and their gameplay. if we could draw on it, then it would most likely be a zigzag just like the USN cruisers since in terms of cruiser tiering, Japan had barely any deviations save for Mogami. another interesting thing to note is that Japan at the moment are the ones that have battlecruisers in their battleship ranks, them being Kongo and Amagi but to their extent, their upgraded hull reformats them to fast battleships.

 

tiers III and IV, Kawachi and Myogi respectively are this nation's first dreadnoughts in the line and as such they are good in mid-range and close ranged shelling although their shot deviation will betray you at times. Myogi is an interesting thing to see since its upgrade gives it the distinct pagoda mast Japanese ships are known for and one such ship very notorious for this is the Fuso at tier VI. at tier V however, you will get the sudden change in battleship handling. if you are used to the lumbering speed of the dreadnoughts Kawachi and Myogi, then the battlecruiser Kongo will give you a new change of pace in battleship handling for the Japanese. she is fast, I can tell you that, as she could reach 30 knots if you upgrade her screws and boilers as well as putting a speed flag on her mast will increase her top speed. her guns are also reasonable with them being 14 inch guns with reasonable shot deviation, you get your first taste of the Japanese 'fast' battleship in the line when you acquire her upgraded hull which reformats her into a fast battleship and gives her a much needed AA suite retrofit. a thing to note about Kongo is that as she is a battlecruiser do NOT expose her to incredibly intense hails of fire since even if she is reformatted, she is still fairly easy to punch through to score a citadel hit as well as if you are still in her stock configuration, her AA suite is very weak so you need to stay with the cruisers in order to have an AA shield. even at tier 7 this ship can still earn its keep as at this stage, it is the fastest battleship at low tier but its turn speed leaves a bit to be desired unlike the US dreadnoughts which turn quite fast.

 

at tier VI, you return back to dreadnoughts in the Fuso but as a dreadnought, she's still solid as a rock and to your satisfaction, she has six dual mount turrets that pack 14 inch guns so she can be a scary thing to see when she unleashes her broadside as the salvo flies high. she also has a solid AA suite but even that can be overran by a lot of planes. tier VII is the last dreadnought you will ever sail on and the most solid dread Japan had built: Nagato. its one of the Big Seven battleships, ones that had the pride of packing 16 inch guns before the gigantic nerf that was the Washington Naval Treaty went all ratified and stuff (it aint surprising its calld 'battleship holiday' on this). in a sense it is rather difficult to kill if you attempt to drown it in a large hail of shellfire. her main armament of four dual mount turrets packing 16 inch guns does not shy away from enemy ships even those that are two tiers higher as she can fight against them although one can find her speed a bit to be desired for a superdread but that can be adapted.

 

at tier VIII is the final deviation in the Japanese battleship line as it had come back to the battlecruiser aspect on the line: Amagi. this battlecruiser was just a hull for conversion to an aircraft carrier due to the aformentioned first hard nerf which was the Washington Naval Treaty when the Great Kanto Quake hit that severely damaged the hull and was scrapped soon after. Akagi, a sister ship, was successfully converted into the carrier Akagi which has yet to be placed within the Japanese carrier tree. as itself, she has five dual mount turrets packing 16 inch guns and while she's not on the level as a dreadnought's in terms of insanely thick armor belts, what you had learned in Kongo can be applied here but to your expense in the thought, she has an additional turret and her guns are two inches bigger. she also has a rather wonky AA suite as its usually not that solid to shoot down entire squadrons.

 

Izumo is a rather atypical design of a battleship since all 16 inch triple mount turrets are located in the fore section of the ship with the plane catapult and hangar for the seaplanes at the aft. originally named as Design 140-J2, this style of turret layout is reminiscent of the British Nelson class, one of the Big Seven battleships. an advantage to Izumo is that you don't need to fully expose your entire side to the enemy as a diagonal already brings all three turrets to bear and the Izumo boasts being more solid than the Amagi battlecruiser.

 

and finally, the epitome of all that was the battleship thought of Japan, the supreme flagship of the Combined Fleet at tier X: Yamato. frankly speaking, this thing can be said to project force despite being THE force. its also the largest battleship built along with its sister. it also has the biggest armament ever fitted to a warship with an awe inspiring 18 inch in three triple mount turrets giving it enough firepower to dominate the sea. in-game it has a very high range of 26-27 km which means it can reach 2/3's of the map if there are no landmasses to obstruct the view and the damage of a shot varies from 9k if it punched through or 15k if the citadel is hit. its also has solid torpedo protection and the main deck as well is quite thick. but despite its power and sound mobility for a very large warship, its turrets turn painfully slow so you need to plan two steps ahead if you want to maximize the sheer power of the Yamato. its shot deviation is also a thing you must know as even if it loads as battleships had at 30-35 seconds, you are still a high priority target for everything. it should come to no surprise that you might expect the enemy carriers or if there's a Midway or Hakuryu, both tier X carriers in the game, they might focus all their strike planes to you and even with your potent AA suite, you still can't shoot down every plane in the sky. isn't really a surprise why some battleship fans tend to go to the Yamato if we talk about pure, balls out, battleship power since this thing is probably the pinnacle of all that is a battleship in the world because paper super battleships like Alsace, Montana and the A-150 battleship didn't pop out.

 

United States

for the US though, its a different way as they did not deviate from their tree as of this build. the Americans are solid but its until tier VIII that you get some serious deviation in their battleship thought. even so, even if they are dreads, they are still solid ships as well and modernizing them had good benefits.

 

at tiers III-VII are all dreadnoughts but all have different characteristics despite being dreads. at III, IV and V, South Carolina, Wyoming and New York respectively, the dreads are very solid and eventually turn quite fast although at stock, expect to have little or non-existent AA suites at all. one thing you should notice is the turret layout on the ship which is nearly identical in Wyoming and New York, although to New York's perks, the ship is very solid that even Kongo may have trouble dealing serious damage to. its citadel is well protected like all the dreads in American hands but the New York may very well be the direct opposite of Kongo; New York is slow, has strong armor for its tier, has five turrets packing dual mounted 14 inch guns, low gun range and turns really fast whilst the Kongo is fast, is reasonably armored, has only eight 14 inch guns, has the highest range of any battleship at her tier and thats including the spotting plane, although she turns a bit slow despite her fast speed. at tier VI the New Mexico is a newer variant of the dreadnoughts of the United States since she has a unique turret layout reminiscent to the South Carolina although she packs four turrets, each of them is triple mounting 14 inch guns, giving her the gun power equivalent to her Japanese counterpart Fuso although she lacks the massed broadside of her counterpart.

 

tier VII Colorado, one of the Big Seven, is the last dread you will use, just like the Nagato. only difference is that in my opinion, Colorado is a bit more protected in terms of citadel protection and torpedo protection. at stock it has a nonexistent AA suite but once upgraded, she's a very solid ship you can use.

 

at tier VIII however, the way you play will change had you not experienced the Japanese Kongo firsthand. no longer are you the dreadnoughts of tiers III-VII, the slow moving ships of the line that are capable of getting up close and personal with other capital ships, you play the US Navy's first fast battleship and the beginning of the US fast battleship concept in the tree which is the North Carolina. this ship is narrower and a bit faster than the dreads you went through and the 16 inch guns it has are improved versions of the ones on the Colorado's. armor can withstand 14 to 15 inch guns at best but why need to get closer for max range when it has a solid range of 23-24km and you can just use your gun range to engage in long range battles while keeping yourself save to run if needed. the AA suite it carries is also

 

tier IX is the known Iowa class, with its lead ship being in the game. it can be considered the pinnacle of the US fast battleship thought as it is also the last one they had built and all four are now museums. in-game, it has the range to boot and its solid survivability. it can also defend against aircraft to a degree but its better to have a screen around. its guns are more improved 16 inch guns from the South Dakota (in my opinion, I think SoDak should be in the game. I liked that battleship than the Iowa that succeeded it) and the shot deviation is quite good for the battleship compared to some ships as well as modest torpedo defense that doesn't flood the ship easily if it hits the more thicker section.

 

and the pinnacle of the battleship thought for the US Navy and was projected as the Iowa's successor is at tier X, the Montana. with some touting it to be the 'Yamato killer' had it floated out of the shipyard in the days of 1943-44 when both supreme flagships were still out there, its essentially a souped up Iowa with an additional triple mount turret totaling her gun compliment to twelve 16 inch guns, she has a rather insane AA suite for a battleship that should be comparable to Yamato's own. her guns might be smaller against the large Yamato but having more means increasing the chance that its going to deal heavy damage. its also helping to know that the Montana's four turrets turn faster than the Yamato's three and the guns reload faster than the other's. the torpedo defense is quite good for it and its shot deviation should be bearable at best.

 

well I hope that helped in a way since this isn't really focusing on specific ships because someday, those that play it long enough will give the tips as this is just the general idea, albeit a very long one.

Edited by EvyL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SGC]
Super Tester
1,459 posts
6,806 battles

For battleships you forgot to mention that US BB secondaries are better at shooting down planes whereas Japanese BB secondaries are better at shooting ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
25 posts
15 battles

once again no mention of UK or Germany, Is this game just a Love fest for the US and Japan..

outher countrys have navies too you know. Im going to love this game.... (thats Irony)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CLAY]
Alpha Tester
945 posts
5,648 battles

once again no mention of UK or Germany, Is this game just a Love fest for the US and Japan..

outher countrys have navies too you know. Im going to love this game.... (thats Irony)

 

In time....or as we like to say around here......Soon :sceptic:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Senior Moderator
4,798 posts
1,924 battles

once again no mention of UK or Germany, Is this game just a Love fest for the US and Japan..

outher countrys have navies too you know. Im going to love this game.... (thats Irony)

 

The guides are written around the existing nations tech trees.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Tester
1,677 posts

well what the guys here said.

 

what we have to work with are the USN and IJN. you can't expect guides for ships that are nonexistent on the game as of yet, now can you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×