Missed the mark

[Daggz]

Naval warfare has long been an interest of mine and as such this game has been long awaited by myself and many others, but, there seem to be some fundamental problems.

 

The greatest fleet to fleet battle that did not involve the use of aircraft carriers was Jutland (Skagerrak) 31 May - 1 June 1916, it began with the contact of the opposing Battle Cruiser Squadrons 14:28 31/05/1916 and ended with the last shot of the last night encounter 03:37 01/06/1916.

 

Here's some numbers to think about.

British Grand Fleet, 151 vessels present;

28 Dreadnought Battleships, 9 Battlecruisers, 8 Armoured Cruisers, 26 Light Cruisers, 78 Destroyers, 1 Minelayer, 1 Seaplane Carrier.

 

German High Seas Fleet (Hochseeflotte), 100 vessels present; 

16 Dreadnought Battleships, 5 Battlecruisers, 6 Pre-dreadnought Battleships, 11 Light Cruisers, 62 Torpedo Boats 

 

Shots fired vs target hits

German

11" and 12" fired 3597 hits secured 120                  3.33% accuracy 

6.7", 5.9" 4" & 3.5" fired 9252 hits secured 107       1.15% accuracy

torpedoes fired 109 hits secured 3                          2.75% accuracy most fired at long range during the day action.

British

12", 13.5", 14" & 15" fired 4610 hits secured 100    2.16% accuracy

secondaries fired not recorded, hits secured 42     ?

torpedoes fired 75, hits secured 6                           8.00% accuracy 38 fired at close range during the night action.

 

Bearing these numbers in mind, my last game my Dreadnought battleship was hit with a 'first salvo' of 10 rounds at 14km while running at 24 knots that's 100% accuracy!

If only the fleets at Jutland has such skill, I know it is just a game, but really!!!! It should not be so easy to secure hits.

 

Then you have the problem of 1910 - 1918 battleships being attacked by 1940 aircraft carriers, that can launch, recover, refuel, rearm and launch again aircraft at stupendous rates.

Given the time compression of the Aircraft Carriers turn around abilities the Battleship main guns should be firing like machine guns.

 

I think the dev's missed the mark a tad.

 

[Conkhead_12]

Naval warfare has long been an interest of mine and as such this game has been long awaited by myself and many others, but, there seem to be some fundamental problems.

 

The greatest fleet to fleet battle that did not involve the use of aircraft carriers was Jutland (Skagerrak) 31 May - 1 June 1916, it began with the contact of the opposing Battle Cruiser Squadrons 14:28 31/05/1916 and ended with the last shot of the last night encounter 03:37 01/06/1916.

 

Here's some numbers to think about.

British Grand Fleet, 151 vessels present;

28 Dreadnought Battleships, 9 Battlecruisers, 8 Armoured Cruisers, 26 Light Cruisers, 78 Destroyers, 1 Minelayer, 1 Seaplane Carrier.

 

German High Seas Fleet (Hochseeflotte), 100 vessels present; 

16 Dreadnought Battleships, 5 Battlecruisers, 6 Pre-dreadnought Battleships, 11 Light Cruisers, 62 Torpedo Boats 

 

Shots fired vs target hits

German

11" and 12" fired 3597 hits secured 120                  3.33% accuracy 

6.7", 5.9" 4" & 3.5" fired 9252 hits secured 107       1.15% accuracy

torpedoes fired 109 hits secured 3                          2.75% accuracy most fired at long range during the day action.

British

12", 13.5", 14" & 15" fired 4610 hits secured 100    2.16% accuracy

secondaries fired not recorded, hits secured 42     ?

torpedoes fired 75, hits secured 6                           8.00% accuracy 38 fired at close range during the night action.

 

Bearing these numbers in mind, my last game my Dreadnought battleship was hit with a 'first salvo' of 10 rounds at 14km while running at 24 knots that's 100% accuracy!

If only the fleets at Jutland has such skill, I know it is just a game, but really!!!! It should not be so easy to secure hits.

 

Then you have the problem of 1910 - 1918 battleships being attacked by 1940 aircraft carriers, that can launch, recover, refuel, rearm and launch again aircraft at stupendous rates.

Given the time compression of the Aircraft Carriers turn around abilities the Battleship main guns should be firing like machine guns.

 

I think the dev's missed the mark a tad.

 

 

No, they haven't missed.

Look, you haven't even played a CV, and never played destroyer. Now, I'm going to list them for u the reasons that u're wrong

1. 1940 Age CV It's a T5!, that's MM problem, anyways, it doesn't really matter at ur level. Thier planes are also limited, the can recover just a few times.

2. As for accuracy 14KM! If it wasn't for game balancing, no one would play battleship it that kind of fu*k accuracy. It's game balancing.

And u used only Jutland, This game frames in 1900 to 1950s. Jutland is only a period of it.

This is an arcade, not a very historical accurate game. The thing that are accurate in this game is just *ships*

Play more then u'll understand.

Thanks

[Retia]

WoWS is not a realistic simulation of naval battles.

It is an arcade game that is comparable to the Battlestations series.

I.e. all realism is shoved into the fire in trade for gameplay that has a focus on fast paced action.

 

If you're looking for a historically correct and realistic gaming experience you simply won't find it here.

Wargaming products (World of Tanks, World of Warplanes, World of Warships) are all arcade games

that throw realism out the window in the first 0.1 seconds.

They use assets from world war 2 (Plus Pre/Post WWII) and that's about it.

[Daggz]

Thanks for your response.

I have played DD but have no desire to play CV, I never said it should be accurate historically. 

 

I agree no one would play at such hit rates, but 100% at 14km at 24knots?

I don't think I am wrong I think they have pushed the bias to far, just my opinion.

 

I used Jutland because it was free of the very things that eventually killed off surface actions. 

I am surprised CV's are available at tier IV, when you can only get the 1913 version of the Kongo as a dreadnought battlecruiser at tier V, her upgrade to fast battleship took place from 1933 - 1940.

 

I have played enough to understand, what is wrong.

 

 

[Commander_Dusty]

Naval warfare has long been an interest of mine and as such this game has been long awaited by myself and many others, but, there seem to be some fundamental problems.

 

The greatest fleet to fleet battle that did not involve the use of aircraft carriers was Jutland (Skagerrak) 31 May - 1 June 1916, it began with the contact of the opposing Battle Cruiser Squadrons 14:28 31/05/1916 and ended with the last shot of the last night encounter 03:37 01/06/1916.

 

Here's some numbers to think about.

British Grand Fleet, 151 vessels present;

28 Dreadnought Battleships, 9 Battlecruisers, 8 Armoured Cruisers, 26 Light Cruisers, 78 Destroyers, 1 Minelayer, 1 Seaplane Carrier.

 

German High Seas Fleet (Hochseeflotte), 100 vessels present; 

16 Dreadnought Battleships, 5 Battlecruisers, 6 Pre-dreadnought Battleships, 11 Light Cruisers, 62 Torpedo Boats 

 

Shots fired vs target hits

German

11" and 12" fired 3597 hits secured 120                  3.33% accuracy 

6.7", 5.9" 4" & 3.5" fired 9252 hits secured 107       1.15% accuracy

torpedoes fired 109 hits secured 3                          2.75% accuracy most fired at long range during the day action.

British

12", 13.5", 14" & 15" fired 4610 hits secured 100    2.16% accuracy

secondaries fired not recorded, hits secured 42     ?

torpedoes fired 75, hits secured 6                           8.00% accuracy 38 fired at close range during the night action.

 

Bearing these numbers in mind, my last game my Dreadnought battleship was hit with a 'first salvo' of 10 rounds at 14km while running at 24 knots that's 100% accuracy!

If only the fleets at Jutland has such skill, I know it is just a game, but really!!!! It should not be so easy to secure hits.

 

Then you have the problem of 1910 - 1918 battleships being attacked by 1940 aircraft carriers, that can launch, recover, refuel, rearm and launch again aircraft at stupendous rates.

Given the time compression of the Aircraft Carriers turn around abilities the Battleship main guns should be firing like machine guns.

 

I think the dev's missed the mark a tad.

 

 

Mate its called a game for a reason, people play it for fun, if this were a simulator, you'd probably get bored more (real war is never fun)

Appreciate you want more realism, but at the end of the day, games are supposed to be easy to pick up but have a degree of challenge to make them fun.

 

Also, I do get rather annoyed by War Thunder players (on Youtube specifically, nothing against you) who preach like there's no tomorrow about how more realistic and superior WT is compared to war gaming games, they are entitled to their opinions, but at games are games and war is war, can't ever compare the two. Enjoy gaming without being arrogant about whats better -happy gaming folks

[Retia]

I agree no one would play at such hit rates, but 100% at 14km at 24knots?

I don't think I am wrong I think they have pushed the bias to far, just my opinion.

 

It's a combination of the target not maneuvering and RnG being RnG.

The shells will land within a circle around the targeted area, if the dice decide that they all land in perfect condition and the target doesn't

move at all, then that's the outcome.

 

When playing WG games don't think of them as semi-non realistic games like Counterstrike.

Nope, they're the Unreal Tournament of this particular genre of games.

I.e. a focus on map knowledge, situational awareness and abusing game mechanics to the max.

 

Also, I do get rather annoyed by War Thunder players (on Youtube specifically, nothing against you) who preach like there's no tomorrow about how more realistic and superior WT is compared to war gaming games, they are entitled to their opinions, but at games are games and war is war, can't ever compare the two. Enjoy gaming without being arrogant about whats better -happy gaming folks

 

War Thunder is as realistic as WG's games and the only people that don't realise this are the ones not worth communicating with.

They're the equivalent of the people whining about gay marriage being allowed in the US... i.e. not very intelligent or just too frustrated to have a decent conversation with.

 

[Daggz]

Cheers,

I'm not bitching, whinging or complaining, I've been waiting for a long time for this game.

I don't have a problem with the arcade style I actually prefer it, in no way would I want to play a simulator.

All I was saying, (perhaps not well) is that it has missed the mark by being to easy, I would have like to see a little more variations in the resulting fire effect.

I used Jutland as a case to demonstrate to the non history buffs how hard it was/is in reality and how far the bench mark is shifted in the game.

 

I will continue to play and enjoy it and continue to laugh to myself when sublime things happen.

 

[Commander_Dusty]

Cheers,

I'm not bitching, whinging or complaining, I've been waiting for a long time for this game.

I don't have a problem with the arcade style I actually prefer it, in no way would I want to play a simulator.

All I was saying, (perhaps not well) is that it has missed the mark by being to easy, I would have like to see a little more variations in the resulting fire effect.

I used Jutland as a case to demonstrate to the non history buffs how hard it was/is in reality and how far the bench mark is shifted in the game.

 

I will continue to play and enjoy it and continue to laugh to myself when sublime things happen.

 

 

Apologies if I came across a bit harsh, but let us enjoy good old game, and some RNG moments

[Windforce]

As someone who has gone through Closed and Open Beta, if shells were anywhere near real life hit rate, every game will be a draw as no one will hit each other in the 20min gameplay. Remember that real life naval battles took hours with ships exchanging fire then retreating at most losing only a few ships on each side.

 

Since WoWS is a  Team vs Team game, having the gameplay of sinking every enemy ship within 20mins, certain changes from real life has to be made in the design.

 

I like WoWS for its more action based fighting that doesn't resemble real naval battles. I also like the more "realistic" simulation that was the good old Great Naval Battle sim.

[Conkhead_12]

Thanks for your response.

I have played DD but have no desire to play CV, I never said it should be accurate historically. 

 

I agree no one would play at such hit rates, but 100% at 14km at 24knots?

I don't think I am wrong I think they have pushed the bias to far, just my opinion.

 

I used Jutland because it was free of the very things that eventually killed off surface actions. 

I am surprised CV's are available at tier IV, when you can only get the 1913 version of the Kongo as a dreadnought battlecruiser at tier V, her upgrade to fast battleship took place from 1933 - 1940.

 

I have played enough to understand, what is wrong.

 

 

 

Enough, with around 60 to 80 (cant remember) battles isn't  enough. I daresay

[Daggz]

 

Apologies if I came across a bit harsh, but let us enjoy good old game, and some RNG moments

 

Nah all good, no dramas.

I just needed to explain myself, because I have found over the years on various forums that opinions tend to get attacked if they are not in line with the general consensus.

As far as wanting a simulator that could be no further from the truth, after 20 years on the sea and 9 behind the helm I know how boring that is, lol

[Counterflak]

So, let me get this straight. In a game governed by RNG, you want more RNG?

 

Although I find these statistics really show the inefficiencies in WW1 gunnery and yet, there are people waiting for a certain competitor to bring out their naval expansion of their game.

 

I'm sure going to enjoy the fallout of that one.

[Conkhead_12]

Thanks for your response.

I have played DD but have no desire to play CV, I never said it should be accurate historically. 

 

I agree no one would play at such hit rates, but 100% at 14km at 24knots?

I don't think I am wrong I think they have pushed the bias to far, just my opinion.

 

I used Jutland because it was free of the very things that eventually killed off surface actions. 

I am surprised CV's are available at tier IV, when you can only get the 1913 version of the Kongo as a dreadnought battlecruiser at tier V, her upgrade to fast battleship took place from 1933 - 1940.

 

I have played enough to understand, what is wrong.

 

 

 

Hell, forgot one important point, but have no desire to play CV, That's ur trouble, try the CVs

CV's have been nerfed for what? 4 times? anyone remember?

 

[Artisto81]

If you want realism, please join up the Navy.

[Alfreuson]

Naval warfare has long been an interest of mine and as such this game has been long awaited by myself and many others, but, there seem to be some fundamental problems.

 

The greatest fleet to fleet battle that did not involve the use of aircraft carriers was Jutland (Skagerrak) 31 May - 1 June 1916, it began with the contact of the opposing Battle Cruiser Squadrons 14:28 31/05/1916 and ended with the last shot of the last night encounter 03:37 01/06/1916.

 

Here's some numbers to think about.

British Grand Fleet, 151 vessels present;

28 Dreadnought Battleships, 9 Battlecruisers, 8 Armoured Cruisers, 26 Light Cruisers, 78 Destroyers, 1 Minelayer, 1 Seaplane Carrier.

 

German High Seas Fleet (Hochseeflotte), 100 vessels present; 

16 Dreadnought Battleships, 5 Battlecruisers, 6 Pre-dreadnought Battleships, 11 Light Cruisers, 62 Torpedo Boats 

 

Shots fired vs target hits

German

11" and 12" fired 3597 hits secured 120                  3.33% accuracy 

6.7", 5.9" 4" & 3.5" fired 9252 hits secured 107       1.15% accuracy

torpedoes fired 109 hits secured 3                          2.75% accuracy most fired at long range during the day action.

British

12", 13.5", 14" & 15" fired 4610 hits secured 100    2.16% accuracy

secondaries fired not recorded, hits secured 42     ?

torpedoes fired 75, hits secured 6                           8.00% accuracy 38 fired at close range during the night action.

 

Bearing these numbers in mind, my last game my Dreadnought battleship was hit with a 'first salvo' of 10 rounds at 14km while running at 24 knots that's 100% accuracy!

If only the fleets at Jutland has such skill, I know it is just a game, but really!!!! It should not be so easy to secure hits.

 

Then you have the problem of 1910 - 1918 battleships being attacked by 1940 aircraft carriers, that can launch, recover, refuel, rearm and launch again aircraft at stupendous rates.

Given the time compression of the Aircraft Carriers turn around abilities the Battleship main guns should be firing like machine guns.

 

I think the dev's missed the mark a tad.

 

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude, seriously??? you should stop playing computer games and join up the navy instead xD

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Retia]

I will continue to play and enjoy it and continue to laugh to myself when sublime things happen.

 

Best mindset to have.

 

If you want realism, please join up the Navy.

 

 

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude, seriously??? you should stop playing computer games and join up the navy instead xD

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why one should read the entire thread before replying.

 

As far as wanting a simulator that could be no further from the truth, after 20 years on the sea and 9 behind the helm I know how boring that is, lol

 

[Daggz]

someone can read, thanks Retia

 

it never ceases to amaze me how a differing view can conjure up a tirade, I thought it would make for a good discussion point, but, instead slammed for not being sheeple

[lethalcoy]

think that was just a real rare salvo. i often stare in disbelief as a whole salvo from my bb

lands all around the enemy ship without a single hit. wait 30 secs just to watch it happen again

why i like cruisers the most 

[karl0ssus1]

Accuracy is a balance factor. BBs have big shell dispersion, you'd need some real luck to land a full broadside at 14km. You just got a bit unlucky OP.

 

 

 

 

[Alfreuson]

And if you still want reality, ok, amma give it to you mate.

 

This is an online computer game, "game" is meant to entertain people, to have fun.

 

Now, 1-8% hit rate is NOWHERE near entertaining nor fun, lol, (imagine a match where u spray tons of salvo and no hits at all, ROFL) therefore what you are asking for is irrelevant in this place.

 

I think you never thought about the very purpose of the GAME.

 

WG never missed YOUR mark, coz it's not their mark in the first place xD

 

There's your reality. 

[Daggz]

I am sorry I started this thread,

I honestly expected to have some mature, constructive interactions and discussions. 

I actually feel like a stranger that has kicked the village dog.

 

At no stage did I say it should be a simulator and I put up Jutland as a case study as a reference point.

 

Done with this, it's like talking to 5 year olds

[Retia]

I am sorry I started this thread,

I honestly expected to have some mature, constructive interactions and discussions. 

I actually feel like a stranger that has kicked the village dog.

 

At no stage did I say it should be a simulator and I put up Jutland as a case study as a reference point.

 

Done with this, it's like talking to 5 year olds

 

I promise you that there will be another reply of a user that hasn't read a single post aside from your opening post in the next few days.

Just a friendly suggestion, pm a mod and ask him/her/it to close the thread to stop people from being herpa derps.

[karl0ssus1]

Theres not really much to discuss here. Accuracy parameters in game have to be the way they are to provide a game that isnt an exercise in RNG based frustration. The devs are not bound by purely historical constraints, nor should they be, and its not unreasonable for people to point that out. 

 

And again, a full 10 round salvo at 14km is an unusual occurrence, at anything past 10km most people would struggle for a 50% hit rate. During my time in alpha and beta, 30-40% was the norm for overall main battery accuracy, which may be a shedload more than those vessels at Jutland, but its not the only thing the in game vessels do much better either.