Submarine Pings

[Unraveler]

At the moment a Submarine ping hit is a guaranteed lock-on (aside from DCP clearing), but what if pings worked more like fires do for HE? For example, having only a 20% chance to stick with each hit?

Submarines would have to fire off a lot more pings to get a solid lock (which is dangerous for them) and clearing a ping-lock with DCP would give a chance for it to not be instantly reapplied when DCP runs out. It would also make the last-minute ping when torpedoes are near the target (surprise!) a risky gamble for the Submarine. Pings would instead have to be fired off a bit earlier to make sure one stuck, which in turn would give the target extra notice of the incoming attack.

After playing Submarines a fair bit recently (I'm still not very good), I think pings are a bit too easy/simple. Watching a Battleship DCP (the Submarine HUD literally informs you of its use) and then just reapplying the ping-lock the moment the DCP switches off feels kinda bad. If, however, I had to fire off five or six pings to get a lock it would not only give the target some breathing space, but also the enemy team would have much more detailed information about my location and movement direction.

What do you think?

[S0und_Theif]

That would further complicate the already complicated mechanics of submarines, while also adding the "chance" would mean that there will be instances where the ping will stick as soon as the first ping right after the player have used their DCP.

Just like HE, after you put out the fire with DCP, there is a good chance that the fire will start as soon as the first HE hits your ship again. Thunderer and some CLs are very good at that.

 

IMO, should just remove the ping and homing torpedo all together, and replace them with the British Battlecruiser / Japanese Light Cruiser swerving / swiveling torpedo.

Of course that would mean shotgunning. But that can be slightly countered by increasing the torpedo's dispersion.

 

It's not a perfect solution, but it does decrease the already overextended use of DCP.

And also decreases the annoyance on fighting submarines.

[Unraveler]

True enough, the instant ping would still happen sometimes but at the moment the chance is 100%. Having it happen only occasionally would definitely be an improvement, as well as making things more difficult and uncertain for the Submarine. Much like Cruisers and fires, or Battleships and dev strikes.

Another idea would be to make sonar pings more dangerous to use. Have the graphic effect show the direction the Submarine is facing, rather than the direction of the ping, and maybe even a rough indication of speed to help the enemy target their Airstrikes.

I agree that the main problem with Submarines isn't their raw damage output or shotgunning (which is quite difficult to pull off in most battles) but the annoying game mechanics they use. If those annoying aspects (pings, easily evading depth charges, etc) can be toned down a bit I think many players wouldn't mind facing them so much.

[S0und_Theif]

1 hour ago, Unraveler said:

Another idea would be to make sonar pings more dangerous to use. Have the graphic effect show the direction the Submarine is facing, rather than the direction of the ping, and maybe even a rough indication of speed to help the enemy target their Airstrikes.

Another approach would be using existing game mechanics.

The "firing bloom or concealment / detectability bloom (I'm not sure of that is the correct word or term.)".

It's when ships fire their main armament, and the ship's concealment / detectability increase to the ship's maximum firing range.

This could deter the SS on using their "ping", much like how a DD is staying undetected.

 

The longer the SS's firing range, the more cautious they should be on using their "ping".

 

1 hour ago, Unraveler said:

I agree that the main problem with Submarines isn't their raw damage output or shotgunning (which is quite difficult to pull off in most battles) but the annoying game mechanics they use. If those annoying aspects (pings, easily evading depth charges, etc) can be toned down a bit I think many players wouldn't mind facing them so much.

[Unraveler]

I think one of the early test versions of Submarines had something like that. It wasn't full-range bloom but pinging increased your detection radius.

The Submarine Hydrophone mechanic is a good tool for revealing the enemy Sub. Maybe pinging could do that, too - have it automatically reveal/update the Sub on the minimap each time it sends out (and/or lands) a ping. The Submarine would remain unspotted but its position and direction would be revealed to help target Depth Charge Airstrikes or interception.

The interaction between opposing Submarines is quite fun at times, with Hydrophone, Surveillance, Sonar Pings, and surface spotting all working together in different ways to reveal the enemy. It can be a real cat-and-mouse game between the two Subs and it's very satisfying to defeat your enemy counterpart. If surface ships had some measure of that gameplay, even in a limited way, it would make things a lot more interesting.

[Skarhabek]

13 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Another approach would be using existing game mechanics.

The "firing bloom or concealment / detectability bloom (I'm not sure of that is the correct word or term.)".

its already done, submarine pinging will create white bubble. and its easy to kill sub when they are constantly ping

16 hours ago, Unraveler said:

 

Submarines would have to fire off a lot more pings to get a solid lock

this is good idea. if sub constantly doing ping, they will get detected and we can launch ASW

[Lowyat]

the white bubble should last at least last 15 seconds or mark it in the map unlike now.

[Thyaliad]

20 hours ago, Unraveler said:

Have the graphic effect show the direction the Submarine is facing, rather than the direction of the ping, and maybe even a rough indication of speed to help the enemy target their Airstrikes.

Yeah the issue with the pings now is that it indicates neither the speed nor the heading of the sub. Unless the sub is sitting still or travelling at low speed, you aren't going to hit a sub going by their ping indicators alone.

[S0und_Theif]

6 hours ago, Skarhabek said:

its already done, submarine pinging will create white bubble. and its easy to kill sub when they are constantly ping

That is NOT firing bloom or concealment / detectability bloom.

If that is your definition of firing bloom or concealment / detectability bloom,
then all surface ships (DD, C, BB) should only puff grey smoke and not revealing the ship itself,
nor where they are facing (Bow, Stern, Broadside) when the surface ships (DD, C, BB) fire their main guns.

 

Submarine white bubble is just an extra programming made by WG in an attempt to make the ship class to work in the game,
while also discarding existing game mechanics (firing bloom or concealment / detectability bloom) that is already in the game.

[Skarhabek]

38 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

That is NOT firing bloom or concealment / detectability bloom.

If that is your definition of firing bloom or concealment / detectability bloom,
then all surface ships (DD, C, BB) should only puff grey smoke and not revealing the ship itself,
nor where they are facing (Bow, Stern, Broadside) when the surface ships (DD, C, BB) fire their main guns.

Submarine white bubble is just an extra programming made by WG in an attempt to make the ship class to work in the game,
while also discarding existing game mechanics (firing bloom or concealment / detectability bloom) that is already in the game.

well, with depth charge you dont need the exact location of sub. just like dropping airstrike to smoked shimakaze but firing its main gun. i am prefer white bubble and pinging chance over last minute torpedo homing from 9km submarine....

the pinging mechanic is actually for sub vs sub.... but abused a lot againts surface ship. that is mean, a chance like fire is better than never. and sub vs sub ping could still 100% chance. if sub keep pinging it will reveal its location and direction based on the bubble. 

 

the problem is the white bubble is not really visible... just change the colour already and make it last longer by 5 sec. the sea water is mixed white and blue....

[S0und_Theif]

11 minutes ago, Skarhabek said:

the problem is the white bubble is not really visible... just change the colour already and make it last longer by 5 sec. the sea water is mixed white and blue....

It's not the color. It's just disappear too fast.

5 seconds is too short. Make it 15 seconds.

 

11 minutes ago, Skarhabek said:

the pinging mechanic is actually for sub vs sub.... but abused a lot againts surface ship. that is mean, a chance like fire is better than never. and sub vs sub ping could still 100% chance. if sub keep pinging it will reveal its location and direction based on the bubble.

If homing torpedo is for SS vs SS, then I actually don't mind that.

Given that the SS already complex game mechanics.

 

Conventional Torpedo for surface ships and Homing torpedo for sub vs sub action.