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"Counter Balance" of CV's

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Alpha Tester
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In most games, in order to bring a better experience for players, the player can choose to engage an enemy or counter it in some way. In the few games that I have played in CBT I find there is no way to counter a CV, especially in end-game scenarios when few ships are left. The game changers are CV's because you can't counter them in any way if you are in a BB or CL and end up loosing(unless you have a destroyer who can hunt them).

I have lost so many games being wrecked by CV's because there is a limit to how much you can evade them and there is nothing I can do about it. This makes the game unfair because I can't carry any more after destroying 3-4 ships and doing a lot of damage only to be sunk full health because the CV's keep sending wave after wave of torp planes or bombers. I am just a sitting duck or a fish in a barrel. They can find me but I can't.

I try to imagine a clan war and what setup there will be. BB's and CL's are redundant if the enemy packs 8-9 CV's. Game over for whoever has less CV's. I have no stats on this but I see Essex players getting "devastating strike" in almost every game(just an example).

I have nothing against CV's, just that I feel there should be a way to control an engagement in every game against any enemy. The number of CV's per game should be only 1 is one way to balance this as you can manage one attack and not an attack from two CV waves of planes.

Anyone with any more ideas on this?

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Alpha Tester
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Play as a fleet, lone Ship tend to be targeted the most 

and Having AA stacks from other ship will help taking down those bomber easier

 

if you can Counter the Plane as a Lone Wolf Ship, then CV is already good as Current SPG in WoT (CVs are Warships, not Artillery support)

Edited by Harpoon01

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Beta Tester
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No way to counter? Next joke please.

 

If you are good you can wreck a CL with a DD and same happen when a CA 1v1 a BB.

How to take down aircrafts?  Ummmm.... Press the Y button and thats it.

 

No one tells you to go alone either. You can be a CV, see who will you kill first: A lonely BB or a escorted BB?

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Moderator
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Lone BBs are targets. Lone CLs/CAs less so, but aren't really contributing to AA defense of their team. Any carrier captain will hesitate to attack BBs that have overlapping AA envelopes, or even worse, have a cruiser somewhere nearby. Goes triple if the BBs/CAs are actively maneuvering to take torpedo bombers head-on: that 4 to 5 seconds that torpedo bombers take to reposition for a broadside spread can see multiple planes being shot down from the 40mms' DPS. Goes even more so if they're USN ships.

 

Any smart BB can easily maneuver and minimize the effects of torpedo bomber squadrons. My absolute best game in a Fuso saw me chasing down and murdering two CVs at close range, and this was before torpedo bombers manual drops were nerfed.

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Alpha Tester
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Just make my point clear, here is an example. End-game scenarios especially for BB's, nothing they can do. CV just having it's way.

In early parts of the game all you have said applies, but as the number of ships become less, there is nothing you can do against a CV sitting far away.


 

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Just make my point clear, here is an example. End-game scenarios especially for BB's, nothing they can do. CV just having it's way.

In early parts of the game all you have said applies, but as the number of ships become less, there is nothing you can do against a CV sitting far away.

 

 

 

So...what's your point again? I see a lot of solo ships getting taken out, and the one time he assaulted a battleship division at about 9:29, his squadron gets eviscerated, resulting in him requiring to commit a deck load strike that dealt significant, but not overwhelming damage to the Yamato division. Situation stemmed from poor decisions by the other team - starting from when their Hakuryuu jumped the gun and launched a torp spread too close, and other team failing to put pressure on the Essex despite having him being detected from what, 2 minutes into the game.

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Alpha Tester
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My point is a CV will kill a lone ship especially BB's as they can't turn, even most cruisers like the Mogami he took out because the drop distance is too less for you to do anything. How can you counter this; you can't in the current game and CV's will now get more damage per torp(US).

Imagine the same game had the Essex been taken out, the result might have been very different. So here is the point I'm trying to make, how much difference a CV can make directly which other ships in the game can't.

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Alpha Tester
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Here is a quote from the ongoing topic about wiping CBT stats, from an alpha tester. I agree with him, especially the point about how painful it can be at lower tiers against CV's:


 

One of the more obnoxious design decisions you can make is giving someone in a competitive online game an opponent against which they are powerless to oppose in any meaningful sense. Avoiding being hit sometimes is not the same as opposing, and veteran 'drop here' CV players will have a ball.

 

New arrivals in OBT are going to love their introduction to CVs, LOL.

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Beta Tester
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My point is a CV will kill a lone ship especially BB's as they can't turn, even most cruisers like the Mogami he took out because the drop distance is too less for you to do anything. How can you counter this; you can't in the current game and CV's will now get more damage per torp(US).

Imagine the same game had the Essex been taken out, the result might have been very different. So here is the point I'm trying to make, how much difference a CV can make directly which other ships in the game can't.

 

Really? Really?

 

All you need is to slow down AND turn. I can dodge 3 torpedo bombers in the Mogami easily. 

 

And BBs, yeah. My SC dodged 3 DD salvos as well as dodge two torpedo bombers. I only ate two because otherwise I would have eaten one torpedo bomber's load.

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Beta Tester
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My point is a CV will kill a lone ship especially BB's as they can't turn, even most cruisers like the Mogami he took out because the drop distance is too less for you to do anything. How can you counter this; you can't in the current game and CV's will now get more damage per torp(US).

Imagine the same game had the Essex been taken out, the result might have been very different. So here is the point I'm trying to make, how much difference a CV can make directly which other ships in the game can't.

 

simple, all you have to do is turn your ship away from the incoming planes and keep them expose to your AA, as much as possible, its not easy to adjust manual torpedo aim and the longer the planes stay on your AA fire the more chances that they will be shut down by your AA until there are less torpedo planes making them easier to dodge. 

 

there are modules upgrades and captain skill  too that will increase the range of your AA engagement radius and will significantly increase your AA effectiveness specially american Battleship AA.

 

forgot to mention Most CV can't one shot a full health BB and needed at least two bombing runs to sink a BB, it will take several minutes around 4+ minuts for each run depending on distance but a IJN DD only need 2 minutes to load torpedo salvo that can easily sink a full health BB e.g fubuki,shimakaze and kagerou.

 

 

 

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simple, all you have to do is turn your ship away from the incoming planes and keep them expose to your AA, as much as possible, its not easy to adjust manual torpedo aim and the longer the planes stay on your AA fire the more chances that they will be shut down by your AA until there are less torpedo planes making them easier to dodge. 

 

there are modules upgrades and captain skill  too that will increase the range of your AA engagement radius and will significantly increase your AA effectiveness specially american Battleship AA.

 

forgot to mention Most CV can't one shot a full health BB and needed at least two bombing runs to sink a BB, it will take several minutes around 4+ minuts for each run depending on distance but a IJN DD only need 2 minutes to load torpedo salvo that can easily sink a full health BB e.g fubuki,shimakaze and kagerou.

 

 

 

 

Again, only if all of them hit, which you need planets to align.

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Beta Tester
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Again, only if all of them hit, which you need planets to align.

 

you will be surprise that here are lots of BB player who only know how to travel on straight line. specially those who love to sail alone. 

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Alpha Tester
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CV's OP i dont think so. and as more players join the game and learn about how to play the game CV's will have even less effect. and for CW you will find CV's they will use 3 max and for a scouting role so the BB's can use there max range for guns. my clan will most probably be using top lvl cruisers more as they provide amazing air cover and rate of fire that will sink most BB quickly

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Beta Tester
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In most games, in order to bring a better experience for players, the player can choose to engage an enemy or counter it in some way. In the few games that I have played in CBT I find there is no way to counter a CV, especially in end-game scenarios when few ships are left. The game changers are CV's because you can't counter them in any way if you are in a BB or CL and end up loosing(unless you have a destroyer who can hunt them).

I have lost so many games being wrecked by CV's because there is a limit to how much you can evade them and there is nothing I can do about it. This makes the game unfair because I can't carry any more after destroying 3-4 ships and doing a lot of damage only to be sunk full health because the CV's keep sending wave after wave of torp planes or bombers. I am just a sitting duck or a fish in a barrel. They can find me but I can't.

I try to imagine a clan war and what setup there will be. BB's and CL's are redundant if the enemy packs 8-9 CV's. Game over for whoever has less CV's. I have no stats on this but I see Essex players getting "devastating strike" in almost every game(just an example).

I have nothing against CV's, just that I feel there should be a way to control an engagement in every game against any enemy. The number of CV's per game should be only 1 is one way to balance this as you can manage one attack and not an attack from two CV waves of planes.

Anyone with any more ideas on this?

 

I agree with you. A BB can not manevour fast enough to dodge the bombardment of torpedos.  Teams should be limited to 1 cv per team and also range on  torps when dropped should be increased from 0.8kms to atleast 2kms. There is no strategy for a BB commander to avoid several squadrons, so at full health you can be easily sank by the planes. Those that don't agree are most likely cv users. 

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Alpha Tester
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Those that don't agree are most likely cv users. 

 

Play as a fleet, lone Ship tend to be targeted the most 

and Having AA stacks from other ship will help taking down those bomber easier

 

if you can Counter the Plane as a Lone Wolf Ship, then CV is already good as Current SPG in WoT (CVs are Warships, not Artillery support)

 

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I agree with you. A BB can not manevour fast enough to dodge the bombardment of torpedos.  Teams should be limited to 1 cv per team and also range on  torps when dropped should be increased from 0.8kms to atleast 2kms. There is no strategy for a BB commander to avoid several squadrons, so at full health you can be easily sank by the planes. Those that don't agree are most likely cv users. 

 

Limiting 1 CV per team won't make things as better as you think it would. They're still gonna be the initial attempt at CV sniping where the victor's CV would then rule the skies without any opposition, with 2CVs per team there will at least be more of a competition. 

 

Now as someone who got up to the Taihou and Yamato before the wipe, I've been both the sender and receiver. 

 

As Harpoon01 has stated, if a lone ship can counter the CV's entire strike group then whats the point in playing CVs? In my opinion, CVs are there to punish the risk taking players when they see them, they're also the only class that can potentially have its entire offensive payload terminated before it reaches its target or rendered almost useless just by 2-3+ ships grouping up.

On the ability for CVs to one shot a BB: Same can be said for a BB outside of the range of a CA/CL, land a good enough citadel spread and you can one shot CA/CLs and there's nothing that the CA/CL can do about it and regardless if they're surrounded by allies or not. 

 

I think some people need to change their mindset about BBs being nigh on indestructible  (I'll coin this as "BaBBy Syndrome" :child:). BBs are meant to mitigate the damage they take rather than be dodging them, hence why they are given large amounts of HP, armour and the Damage repair ability. YOU ARE MEANT TO TAKE DAMAGE be it from torpedo bombers, DD torpedos or shell fire.

Now, as many others have stated in this thread, the best way to counter a CV's strike is to stick together(especially with a CA with the AA Barrage ability) this will help in the mitigation of potential damage that you or anyone else would receive. Needless to say, avoid the habit of tunnel vision greatly increase your chance of survival. 

 

Edited by Chawp

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Beta Tester
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Well, throughout all of the games I've played I've never found the CV OP, but I do find some traits of it irritatingly disturbing. A good CV player is an absolute monster in the face of his enemy. First, they take out your team's CV, then they manual drop those torps so damn accurate there's no way to turn in time/before (cause you know, they circle the planes around until they get a Crossing T). 

 

The only time I felt safer against these CVs are in the CLs (namely Cleveland) or in a DD. Either you take out the planes or you dodge like a ninja, and both can't be done properly on a CA or a BB.

 

CVs are NOT OP, but manual drop + good CV players can create the illusion of that.

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Well, throughout all of the games I've played I've never found the CV OP, but I do find some traits of it irritatingly disturbing. A good CV player is an absolute monster in the face of his enemy. First, they take out your team's CV, then they manual drop those torps so damn accurate there's no way to turn in time/before (cause you know, they circle the planes around until they get a Crossing T). 

 

The only time I felt safer against these CVs are in the CLs (namely Cleveland) or in a DD. Either you take out the planes or you dodge like a ninja, and both can't be done properly on a CA or a BB.

 

CVs are NOT OP, but manual drop + good CV players can create the illusion of that.

 

Yeah, Cleveland are your best friends in mid tier, especially if you're a CV player on an IJN T5 Zuiho in a Full Strike Torpedo Bombers loadout. I had one saving my neck.

 

Or you can always stick close to a USN BB like the Wyoming as they have 28 AA turrets. The IJN doesn't have much AAs...

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Alpha Tester
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Here is a quote from the ongoing topic about wiping CBT stats, from an alpha tester. I agree with him, especially the point about how painful it can be at lower tiers against CV's:

 

One of the more obnoxious design decisions you can make is giving someone in a competitive online game an opponent against which they are powerless to oppose in any meaningful sense. Avoiding being hit sometimes is not the same as opposing, and veteran 'drop here' CV players will have a ball.

 

New arrivals in OBT are going to love their introduction to CVs, LOL.

 

 

 

 

That quote seems familiar for some reason.

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Beta Tester
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Everyone arguing that CV's are balanced obviously have never driven a BB before. That or they die before ever being an actual contributing factor to their team (last FEW ships alive).

Edited by InversoSk3lo

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Beta Tester
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simple, all you have to do is turn your ship away from the incoming planes and keep them expose to your AA, as much as possible, its not easy to adjust manual torpedo aim and the longer the planes stay on your AA fire the more chances that they will be shut down by your AA until there are less torpedo planes making them easier to dodge. 

 

there are modules upgrades and captain skill  too that will increase the range of your AA engagement radius and will significantly increase your AA effectiveness specially american Battleship AA.

 

forgot to mention Most CV can't one shot a full health BB and needed at least two bombing runs to sink a BB, it will take several minutes around 4+ minuts for each run depending on distance but a IJN DD only need 2 minutes to load torpedo salvo that can easily sink a full health BB e.g fubuki,shimakaze and kagerou.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, only if all of them hit, which you need planets to align.

 

 

I agree with you. A BB can not manevour fast enough to dodge the bombardment of torpedos.  Teams should be limited to 1 cv per team and also range on  torps when dropped should be increased from 0.8kms to atleast 2kms. There is no strategy for a BB commander to avoid several squadrons, so at full health you can be easily sank by the planes. Those that don't agree are most likely cv users. 

 

The fact of the matter is CV's never put themselves in harms way to drop Torps in your ballasts where as DD's are open to copious amounts of return fire. DD's I think are some what the most feared mobile ship but most certainly the most targeted when lit.
**Yes I am calling CV drivers immobile because lets face it, if they are hidden and don't move, that is one less thing for them to Micro Manage.
Edited by InversoSk3lo

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Alpha Tester
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Limiting CVs per team is wrong to this well balance class.

 

 

 

Not really, IRL, CV is being the second most Expensive ship to field (along with their planes),

and the one that most cost consuming both for Planes and Man power (except to modern CV)

 

 

 

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