You should read this... ... ...

[S4pp3R]

OK, so this is a bit of a rough post...

 

We all need to examine our own spending and play time, right the %^&! now.

 

I love World of Warships, I honestly do. I don't necessarily agree with all of their decisions and all sorts of things but on balance, it's been mostly positive.

 

But...

 

...

 

Wargaming is a Belorussian Company, and has major studios in Russia.

I don't mind different views of the world, I understand (but don't agree) with CCP views, etc, etc. But the sort of thing Russia AND Belorussia has done to Ukraine; I can't stand for it.

I don't give AF if I get forum perma banned, except that it'll be hard to chat with some of you folks (I genuinely like you all, particularly our varied opinions).

<content removed> 

My wallet is closed WG, my point is this - I know you folks aren't your governments but I honestly feel sick playing your game at the moment, so my wallet is closed.

Anyone who comes back with anything like 'oh but it's justified _______' is wrong. And if you point to equally %^&! things other countries have done, you're a fool, that's called whataboutism. Just because another person/entity does something screwed up, doesn't justify you doing it.

I'm sorry for those who read this and don't want to... Honestly, sorry. But spare a thought for Ukrainians right now... ... This war is absolutely bs and I loath Putin for it.

So what's your play folks?

Edit: I didn't mean for this to blow up to 9+ pages but I should clarify; WG sending money to Ukrainian Red Cross is great, their removal of SerB is also great... But WoWS is still made in St. P. so while I may spend money in future, I will do so in the hope that somehow they move the studio because I still feel uncomfortable even now when I log in.

 

 

Political insults. Content removed.

~ADM_dude

[Manacetamol]

Abandon all reasons and go for madness, isn't it?

[S4pp3R]

5 minutes ago, Manacetamol said:

Abandon all reasons and go for madness, isn't it?

I could go into a long analysis of why he is and why he isn't, but this is not the place. But yes, the entire thing is completely mad. Nobody wins.

[Manacetamol]

Warning but no warning

There are more, it's called "Infestation"

[S4pp3R]

2 minutes ago, Manacetamol said:

Warning but no warning

There are more

translate plis, English speaking forums... ... I wish I could speak other languages but trust me - I'm useless at it.

[Ralgon]

side note.  pretty sure the dates are out but nostradamus had a prediction on this one, and it's scary if it tracks true..........

[Rub1c0n]

13 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

translate plis, English speaking forums... ... I wish I could speak other languages but trust me - I'm useless at it.

Google translate

after ukraine he will visit many countries

[S4pp3R]

34 minutes ago, Rub1c0n said:

Google translate

after ukraine he will visit many countries

Maybe true, NATO has many members

[Rub1c0n]

18 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

Maybe true, NATO has many members

NATO is a paper tiger.  Putin is not scared to take action because he knows it is virtually assured that NATO will do little more than pass resolutions that say what he has done is wrong.  Economic sanctions will go some way to causing him pain but that pain is referred pain in that it will actually impact the Russian population and only if they rise up against him will it be truly effective and there are other countries who would be more than willing to fill the economic void so it is a longer term strategy.  Economic sanctions have rarely, if ever, effected a change in policy by an authoritarian leader.

[Not_Ch0m1n]

Okay Guys, I want you guys keep, and maintain Civil at this points, before making any post regarding recent Event or Issues.

I hope Everyone involved this issue being safe. 

[Skarhabek]

 

 

                                  

[Not_Ch0m1n]

48 minutes ago, Skarhabek said:

bro can we go chaos this time and abandon rule? seems fun to do... it just 07.00 am and i dont have sanity remain for today.

WG will be mad for this

[mashed68]

The simple fact is the video game company has nothing to do with politics or government control so your protest will do nothing beyond upsetting the company. But its Russia, and what happens if you protest the gov in Russia? They lock you away if they don't outright try to poison you to death. So nothing will come of it.

[mashed68]

3 minutes ago, Skarhabek said:

 

BUT NATO RESPONSE IS THE MOST DISGUSTING, its another American old strategy... enter war at later stage, plunder everything and write the history as victor... except the Ukraine is cease to exist and people have very LOW morale....... of course its only possiblebe able to loot Ukraine if its no longer exist.

WW3 is UN AVOIDABLE, its bound to happen.... War is only happen if a side think win is possible/guarantee. and AMERICA IS AT THE WEAKEST CONDITION RIGHT NOW.facing both China and Russia.... and this Ukraince crisis prove it.

 

 

 

This is laughable.

America stays out of wars until they can't usually. Like WW1. And WW2. Korea and vietnam they did not wait, nor did they loot anything. Afghanistan has nothing to loot in the first place, not the mention the massive amount of money America has pumped into these countries while wars are raging.

Ukraine isn't a NATO country, so they and the rest of NATO have no reason to intervene. NATO isn't the world police, they aren't there to save everyone. They are a group that's pledged to save each other in the group, nothing more.

[Skarhabek]

 

 

                                  

[blauflamme22]

Saps, I get it, you're upset as are many other people, but you yourself pointed out that WG are not their government. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the vast majority of WG employees would have had no more desire for current events than anybody else. They are like the rest of us, working to make a living and get through life as best they can, they do not make these choices, that's on the government, and choosing to punish them won't change the outcome but will cause even more misery. Obviously I'm all for personal choice, and if spending money on WoWS doesn't sit right with you that's fine. I think a lot of people will be reflecting on things.
I can say that Putin isn't that popular, and domestically there is a lot of anger and sadness ant what has occurred. ordinary Russians are as much his victims as anybody else. I'd also just like to note that oligarchs turning on him is not a possible scenario, they are hostages in gilded cages too, just as likely to be arrested or killed as anybody else who defies the power structure there. If you want somewhere to direct your hate, direct it at Putin and the Siloviki, not ordinary Russians, they have no say in matters and have already suffered much under him. The same goes for Belorussians, They are just trying to get by and your anger should be directed at Lukashenko and his Siloviki

[Grygus_Triss]

What has happened is terrible and I do not agree with it.

However, it won’t affect my play much. WG may have studios in Russian and be a Belorussian company, but it’s still a global company with studios all over the world and many people who likely do not agree with certain world events either.

I have always strongly believed that a people are not their government. And to be honest, a gaming company which deals internationally, and gets most of its players from Europe and America depends on peacetime and a stable economy. I can’t see the, being too happy with decisions which disrupt that.

And last month I bough a year of premium time…

It will stop any further spending… at least for the next year, when I will review my spending and investment in this game, But I had already reduced my spending on this game to premium time only due to decisions made wholly by WG.

I do reserve the right to change my mind at any point.

Seriously, the world didn’t need this.

[Skarhabek]

 

 

 

 

                                  

[LtDan_IceCream]

12 minutes ago, Skarhabek said:

the biggest question here is..... how the hell cancelled azur lane collab could create WW3?

[Storm_Khan]

49 minutes ago, mashed68 said:

The simple fact is the video game company has nothing to do with politics or government control so your protest will do nothing beyond upsetting the company. But its Russia, and what happens if you protest the gov in Russia? They lock you away if they don't outright try to poison you to death. So nothing will come of it.

This is not a matter of being one individual and thinking you are not able to do anything about world events, that sort of thinking is pointless. It's also not about WG and them being Belarussian or Russian. But you can as an individual do your very small part in protesting against the atrocity that Russia is in the process of committing.

As WG is a Belarussian/Russian company they pay taxes to those governments. They also have to pay their employees who in turn pay taxes to those governments. By withholding your custom and keeping your wallets closed, you are indirectly doing your own 'sanctions' against those authoritarian regimes in a very small way. When a whole bunch of like-minded people do the same then WG will begin to hurt. And when they start to hurt they can complain to their govt's of the issues they have caused and apply a little pressure that way. And it keeps funds out of the Russian economy in a small way to keep them from continuing to fund their war machine.

Sure, its only a tiny drop in the ocean but every little bit helps. I for one am keeping my wallet closed for the foreseeable future.

[S4pp3R]

1 hour ago, Not_Ch0m1n said:

Okay Guys, I want you guys keep, and maintain Civil at this points, before making any post regarding recent Event or Issues.

I hope Everyone involved this issue being safe. 

This is the only time I've seen you post and been like 'oh !$#@ Chom isn't a native English speaker...' kudos and I understand your point anyways.

1 hour ago, mashed68 said:

The simple fact is the video game company has nothing to do with politics or government control so your protest will do nothing beyond upsetting the company. But its Russia, and what happens if you protest the gov in Russia? They lock you away if they don't outright try to poison you to death. So nothing will come of it.

OK, I don't know how well you know me, but basically I'm a very logical and facts-based person, anyone on the forums knows this. If you read my post you will see that I speak about feelings and feelings based conclusions and decisions.

I'm not sure if I've explained it well enough but my point is thus... Despite my logic and knowing that games devs aren't governments, I'm boycotting spending on WoWS stuffs because Ukraine is getting invaded

So, while I agree with you, if you read my post it is pretty clear that I know these things.

1 hour ago, mashed68 said:

This is laughable.

America stays out of wars until they can't usually. Like WW1. And WW2. Korea and vietnam they did not wait, nor did they loot anything. Afghanistan has nothing to loot in the first place, not the mention the massive amount of money America has pumped into these countries while wars are raging.

Ukraine isn't a NATO country, so they and the rest of NATO have no reason to intervene. NATO isn't the world police, they aren't there to save everyone. They are a group that's pledged to save each other in the group, nothing more.

Agree somewhat, US as do other major powers do what they want and will flaunt international laws. I personally don't agree with this but this is fact and whether we like it or not; the US has been the 'world police' in some way for the better part of 30 years.

58 minutes ago, blauflamme22 said:

Saps, I get it, you're upset as are many other people, but you yourself pointed out that WG are not their government. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the vast majority of WG employees would have had no more desire for current events than anybody else. They are like the rest of us, working to make a living and get through life as best they can, they do not make these choices, that's on the government, and choosing to punish them won't change the outcome but will cause even more misery. Obviously I'm all for personal choice, and if spending money on WoWS doesn't sit right with you that's fine. I think a lot of people will be reflecting on things.
I can say that Putin isn't that popular, and domestically there is a lot of anger and sadness ant what has occurred. ordinary Russians are as much his victims as anybody else. I'd also just like to note that oligarchs turning on him is not a possible scenario, they are hostages in gilded cages too, just as likely to be arrested or killed as anybody else who defies the power structure there. If you want somewhere to direct your hate, direct it at Putin and the Siloviki, not ordinary Russians, they have no say in matters and have already suffered much under him. The same goes for Belorussians, They are just trying to get by and your anger should be directed at Lukashenko and his Siloviki

I value this response so much, it's hard to respond properly.

Honestly blau, you've just made me pause and consider my position - thank you! I'm not sure where I stand now but you are voicing reason and logic in a very effective manner.

Honestly, I'm sitting here thinking.

This is why I love this forum so much, thankyou everyone, honestly!

49 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Seriously, the world didn’t need this.

I agree, not much more I can say other than I agree mate!

 

18 minutes ago, Storm_Khan said:

This is not a matter of being one individual and thinking you are not able to do anything about world events, that sort of thinking is pointless. It's also not about WG and them being Belarussian or Russian. But you can as an individual do your very small part in protesting against the atrocity that Russia is in the process of committing.

As WG is a Belarussian/Russian company they pay taxes to those governments. They also have to pay their employees who in turn pay taxes to those governments. By withholding your custom and keeping your wallets closed, you are indirectly doing your own 'sanctions' against those authoritarian regimes in a very small way. When a whole bunch of like-minded people do the same then WG will begin to hurt. And when they start to hurt they can complain to their govt's of the issues they have caused and apply a little pressure that way. And it keeps funds out of the Russian economy in a small way to keep them from continuing to fund their war machine.

Sure, its only a tiny drop in the ocean but every little bit helps. I for one am keeping my wallet closed for the foreseeable future.

That is my thinking too

 

ALL: Thankyou for reasoned and balanced responses, I love the fact that you challenge my opinions. We need more of this in a reasonable context and this is a very rare pocket of the internet.

[Moggytwo]

4 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

My wallet is closed WG, my point is this - I know you folks aren't your governments but I honestly feel sick playing your game at the moment, so my wallet is closed.

This seems a reasonable response to me. Although WG is a Belarusian company, WoWs itself is entirely developed inside Russia by Lesta in St Petersburg, and Belarus is Russia's primary ally in this invasion. It's hard to feel comfortable giving money that is going directly into these economies in the current situation. 

Having said that it's important to remember that Lesta are just people doing their best to make a game, they and the rest of the Russian people are not their government. How many people here would be happy to be personally associated with their governments actions. Here in Australia I'd be mortified. Continuing to judge individuals by their character and not by their nationality or the actions of their government is important. 

[Rub1c0n]

4 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

My wallet is closed WG, my point is this - I know you folks aren't your governments but I honestly feel sick playing your game at the moment, so my wallet is closed.

 

12 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

This seems a reasonable response to me. Although WG is a Belarusian company, WoWs itself is entirely developed inside Russia by Lesta in St Petersburg, and Belarus is Russia's primary ally in this invasion. It's hard to feel comfortable giving money that is going directly into these economies in the current situation. 

Having said that it's important to remember that Lesta are just people doing their best to make a game, they and the rest of the Russian people are not their government. How many people here would be happy to be personally associated with their governments actions. Here in Australia I'd be mortified. Continuing to judge individuals by their character and not by their nationality or the actions of their government is important. 

Now let's be honest here and @S4pp3R I am not having a go at you just pointing out the obvious.

IF an individual really felt strongly about this Ukraine issue AND that individual really felt sick playing their game at the moment wouldn't they just quit playing?  

[Verytis]

Sanctions need to last for a sustained period to be effective. By the time the effects can even be felt, the killing will have finished long ago.

So yeah, by all means, cut off every single source of potential revenue going into Russia, if you have the commitment. But unless a vast majority shares the committed mindset of laying a sustained siege, nothing will come out of it.

4 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

My wallet is closed WG, my point is this - I know you folks aren't your governments but I honestly feel sick playing your game at the moment, so my wallet is closed.

Unfortunately, long term commitment is whats needed, not a short "at the moment" kneejerk reaction. If you're gonna do something, be prepared to commit fully, or not at all. Otherwise it amounts to little more than a tantrum.

 

29 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Having said that it's important to remember that Lesta are just people doing their best to make a game, they and the rest of the Russian people are not their government. How many people here would be happy to be personally associated with their governments actions. Here in Australia I'd be mortified. Continuing to judge individuals by their character and not by their nationality or the actions of their government is important. 

Governments don't exist without people underneath it. Unfortunately its often difficult to harm one without indirectly harming the other in some way.

 

 

As someone whose been angry once before and got more misery than joy out of it, I think caring too much just hurts yourself unnecessarily instead. So as a nobody who has never spent a cent and thus whose stance has no effect, I'll keep playing casually as long as its fun.

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

I'm not really keen on putting up some virtue-signalling, so meh. It's not like I have ever payed WG in one way or another, either. Otherwise I wouldn't be arsed with Ranked or even Random in particular.

I'd leave the geopolitical stuffs out of the game, just as the silent majority does. I mean naturally the majority would be triggered at every ship with "controversial history" regardless their performance in the game, if we keep on mixing anything with politics..

1. Tone, a ship that was notorious for the massacre of unarmed merchant sailors. There is no one who made a big fuss about it here (at least on the English-speaking part of the forum).
2. Irian was used a detention center (before the ship "vanished") where the political dissidents (mostly Commies) were interrogated, tortured, and (possibly) executed. Irian's history in the post-war era mirrored to that of NDJ's, but the community's impression on both ships are totally the opposite of each other.

I know both examples happened in the past. But you see both the past & current events go along the same lines. Bad things that happen today won't really leave the same impression in the future, aside from those who experience it directly. Asians have no issue with the Swastika in the same manner as the West have no issue with the Rising Sun.

As Moggy said in his last bit, you don't really support the government by using the product that comes from the same country, unless the company blatantly shows support to the government.