A wasteful Amagi....

[fishbed70]

Yesterday in a random game....me in my Pommern.....and a Amagi on my flank just wasted it's firepower sitting at the back bow-on reversing slowly.

Why would a player waste the Amagi's broadside firepower playing like this? Am really frustrated in that game.

Only if the team Amagi be more useful instead of bow-on sniping at the back at max-range (Amagi guns range 19.9km) , it can at least help to kill off the later advancing enemy Georiga.

I was frustrated because my Pommern already tried the best using my secondaries to wear down the Georgia to 16K HP, but due to this Amagi's lack of proper firepower support, enemy Georgia made a HP comeback.

In below mini-map, the red circle is the wasteful Amagi positioning.

(Just wanted to rant a bit on the forum, sorry...)

[S4pp3R]

Short answer - they're a noob or bot...

Long answer - I mean this in the most friendly way possible; why care, why bother writing a thread about it?

It's an issue we all encounter and yep, 100% sucks but not everyone has much game sense or human intelligence. If you can identify these folks early, you can play around them and with them in mind, let them face tank for a while and use concealment to periodically knife your enemies.

Pommern isn't the greatest at this, but in this situation you could have worked with the island at B2/B3... Play hidey-shootey with that island and your enemies and you'll get at least twice your ships worth out of the time you have...

Anyways, I know it sucks mate, but there isn't much you can do about it. The biggest thing you can control in the game is your performance and your attitude. And these sorts of allies require a quality, positive, forgive-and-forget attitude.

[Skarhabek]

this is the reason why i love Kearsarge so much.....

WG Problem require WG solution......

______________________---

Pommern is designated to be Tanker and CQC, not to smack enemy fast. also Georgia IS FAST and have short reload repair party. you are understimate Georgia....

well.... it wasnt your fault or the Amagi, enemy simply lucky or just better player......

_______________________________________________

GET KEARSARGE ALREADY BOIS! enemy can hide, but cannt run

[Grygus_Triss]

If you’re going to bow on reverse at max range in Amagi you might as well stern reverse in Amagi. Then you can run at max speed if you need to and you have more guns closer to enemy.

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

15 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

If you’re going to bow on reverse at max range in Amagi you might as well stern reverse in Amagi. Then you can run at max speed if you need to and you have more guns closer to enemy.

Truth. Sometimes kiting is the absolute best strategy. After first assessing the situation.

It's just unfortunate that some players have been spanked so hard previously that they auto-kite every game.

[RenamedUser_2003248997]

First battle on the server? 

BBs like that are the norm rather than the exception.

[Grygus_Triss]

1 hour ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

Truth. Sometimes kiting is the absolute best strategy. After first assessing the situation.

It's just unfortunate that some players have been spanked so hard previously that they auto-kite every game.

Heh. True.

There are some ships which, IMO only work well when kiting, a lot of the lighter armoured cruisers are this I feel. So it’s very tempting to kite away immediately. Of course, they usually have shorter range, so you have to get closer to begin with, then hope you can go undetected while you turn, and then hope that the enemy pushes.

[Mechfori]

You are asking the BB to do their so call BB play, fight hard at the front, tanking the team, utilizing fire power to overwhelm enemy but sorry these days it's like absolute majority of BB simply will not do that , camp and farm are rewarded ( even though it do not necessarily win games ) , and fighting mean having to forego all that and yet worse off , in a true to god fashion , players of all types are heavily penalised for doing their team duty, doing their intended tactical play.

Guess then why they do not play the play 😅

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

2 hours ago, Mechfori said:

You are asking the BB to do their so call BB play, fight hard at the front, tanking the team, utilizing fire power to overwhelm enemy but sorry these days it's like absolute majority of BB simply will not do that , camp and farm are rewarded ( even though it do not necessarily win games ) , and fighting mean having to forego all that and yet worse off , in a true to god fashion , players of all types are heavily penalised for doing their team duty, doing their intended tactical play.

Guess then why they do not play the play 😅

When I first got Kurfurst (and Freddie and Bismarck too), I tried to do just that, and every game I got focussed by the HE spamming DD's and cruisers and burned to the water line before my heal could come off cooldown. This happened so many times that even a dumb arse like me learned that doing that is suicide and does not benefit anyone on the green team at all. How many times do BB and cruiser players have to tell you (over and over) that you are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. The BB role is NOT to go forward and tank damage. Not until most of the threat has been neutralised. 

I always try to focus down the radar cruisers first, and other BB's second. But if the DD (ie you) does not provide spotting, I can't do my job properly, and can only shoot at what I can see.

I have had the misfortune of having you play a DD on my team a few times, and you never do your job. How can the BB's do their job if you refuse to do your job first. Nobody reasonable expects you to go brawl with the enemy DD and cruisers, but we do NEED you to go find us targets to shoot that are your greatest threat.

[Lowyat]

24 minutes ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

How many times do BB and cruiser players have to tell you (over and over) that you are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong

lost cause. gave up on it already.

[Paladinum]

3 hours ago, Mechfori said:

Guess then why they do not play the play 😅

And neither do YOU.

Try to remember what you commented in this thread. You didn't give any advice, you came there and whined, the advice part is not even advice, it's the extension of the whining.

 

There is a word for people like YOU who tell others to do certain good things, but don't do those things themselves: Hypocrite.

Spoiler

 

[Mechfori]

" And either do you " - I do not and will not deny that , why not , if the big guns all with Armor, HP, fire power and heal had the reason to safe themselves, then me in my humble DD equally had rights to SAFE myself ... why should this even surprise .. in the end Guns keep ask for DD to go spotting simply they want their damage dealing their own , is it not the same.

 

 

1 hour ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

When I first got Kurfurst  ......

I always try to focus down the radar cruisers first, and other BB's second. But if the DD (ie you) does not provide spotting, I can't do my job properly, and can only shoot at what I can see.

...

 

why do BB think the Radar cannot see through the air and target the DD or for the matter any enemy in range ; or enemy DD are always dumb or enemy planes are not there !! so if BB are not to do forward tanking then one must ask what's the purpose of the Armor and HP and Heal , if Big Guns are to only do damage dealing and ranging our the enemies , then its not providing what the forward vanguard needs , the close support, the AA, the fire suppression, the fire cover. and if those are not there then why would, why should a DD , any DD risk its paper thin hull just so .. all service demand a price to be paid , and for guns the price to pay is to provide safety and support to the vanguard .. and if that cannot be provided then why ask for the spotting , if safety is a concern to the BB then its equally so to the Cruiser and equally so to the CV and equally so to the DD and DD just happen to had practically no HP to toy around, no armor to repel any, no heal ( most of them ), and no range to play around .. Spotting is what's asked for but does the guns provide the support at the front to further the spotting, do know if a DD or CL need those support they most likely need it NOW and instant. Someone sitting 12/15/18/20 KM back just do not and cannot provide

Arms race, Ranked, and Convoy mode has taught us a lot, and one thing is whichever team who push tend to get the upper hand , and they did not, do not  wait for spotting all done and everything , every enemy be known before committing to a group push.

yes I know its a circular argument but its yet a fact , sure yeah I can go spotting without support and risk my own neck but WHY, when the team really all shown unwilling and favor safety over risk, so would I and so will I , if the team then had no spotting and no target to shoot at , then so be it .. its a self fulfilling scenario , I know but its yet a fact ..

I've stated before and I will reiterate , these days Guns had no credit , DD can expect none, not any for real support if not already the guns already at the front doing their part .. so until and when I see guns actually push and be part of the team, part of the group and not just a battery at the back, else ,spotting , well they will come when they come. Guns can choose safety over fighting it, Cruiser can choose safety over fighting it, CV had its own way , so playing a DD I choose likewise , safety over anything else .. as @Paladinum put it on another fact , playing DD is survival first , else anything come 2nd or 3rd or .......... I do not eve ask others to agree wit me , I am just stating what I will do if am playing a game and see guns not forwarding to group up, to help  others in the team .. these days sadly more than 90% of the time this is very much the case. Its a case of Guns blaming DD for not providing the spotting, then its equally so of DD blaming Guns not providing the up front close support .. its a question of hens and eggs , which come first? I had no answer to that ; but I do know me on a DD just do not had the HP, nor the Armor, nor the firepower, nor the heal ( most of the time )

 

 

[Paladinum]

4 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

so playing a DD I choose likewise , safety over anything else .. as @Paladinum put it on another fact , playing DD is survival first

I said "maintain spotting at all times", and NOT "run away and abandon spotting". I also said to return to capture a point later when it's safe. According to the comments from other players who have had the misfortune of having you as a DD on their teams, you don't even do that.

Every player who frequents this forum already knows you are full of crap, so whatever you say in this matter will only make them despise you more. Keep up the crappy work 

 

 

[Mechfori]

if all you guys do is trying to frame and shame, then pls be my guest .. Why should a DD player do its part only cause the BB and Cruisers demands it nut they in turn will not do their part of the forward support .. maintain spotting always, its easy to say that .. from a Guns perspective .. should does not mean COULD .. for any DD player , if no support is in range then safety must be perceived as priority over the duty to spot , to scout .. NO margin of error to toy around , this is what DDs are

Why then must one ask , when guns had the HP, the armor, the firepower, the heal and all and yet will refuse to support the front at the front , we all know support is ineffective and often then not even impossible when placing your BB and Cruiser 10/15 even 20 KM back and usually hiding behind an island .. All I am reading is unconditional demand on DD but Guns all shown refusing to do their part at the front .. I call this a simple display of human nature , and me equally at that .. so spotting , yeah , until and when the guns show up at the front doing their support, else NO. Guns who shown unwilling to forward to even support, then deserve none  and will not get any

[Verytis]

10 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

if all you guys do is trying to frame and shame, then pls be my guest .. Why should a DD player do its part only cause the BB and Cruisers demands it nut they in turn will not do their part of the forward support .. maintain spotting always, its easy to say that .. from a Guns perspective .. should does not mean COULD .. for any DD player , if no support is in range then safety must be perceived as priority over the duty to spot , to scout .. NO margin of error to toy around , this is what DDs are

Why then must one ask , when guns had the HP, the armor, the firepower, the heal and all and yet will refuse to support the front at the front , we all know support is ineffective and often then not even impossible when placing your BB and Cruiser 10/15 even 20 KM back and usually hiding behind an island .. All I am reading is unconditional demand on DD but Guns all shown refusing to do their part at the front .. I call this a simple display of human nature , and me equally at that .. so spotting , yeah , until and when the guns show up at the front doing their support, else NO. Guns who shown unwilling to forward to even support, then deserve none  and will not get any

Imagine playing a ship that is meant to be a supportive role and spearhead, and refusing to play for the team.

 

If you don't even try, why would those behind you try either?

Maybe the "support" that you demand from others are not realistic?

Maybe the bigger ships require more information and commitment before making decisions, because a DD can turn around much faster and go dark via smoke/concealment?

 

Because I rarely ever see teams demand unrealistic things out of me. Most of them don't talk at all really.

[Paladinum]

42 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

maintain spotting always, its easy to say that .. from a Guns perspective .. should does not mean COULD .. for any DD player , if no support is in range then safety must be perceived as priority over the duty to spot , to scout ..

My better performance (than yours) in many DDs I play says that. How is it hard to spot something that is at least 5km more detectable than most DDs? Say that to any decent DD player and they will laugh their a$$ off, instead of seriously responding, because it's a stupid thing to say.

 

42 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

NO margin of error to toy around , this is what DDs are

Imagine playing ships that generally have about 6 km concealment range and say "NO margin of error" unironically. This is too pathetic.

This doesn't even consider DDs like Marceau or any of the super fast gunboat DDs like Mogador, Kleber and Khaba. I despise blanket statements like this.

 

The rest is exactly the same crap so why bother replying to.

[Mechfori]

1 hour ago, Verytis said:

Imagine playing a ship that is meant to be a supportive role and spearhead, and refusing to play for the team.

 

If you don't even try, why would those behind you try either?

Maybe the "support" that you demand from others are not realistic?

Maybe the bigger ships require more information and commitment before making decisions, because a DD can turn around much faster and go dark via smoke/concealment?

 

Because I rarely ever see teams demand unrealistic things out of me. Most of them don't talk at all really.

you had a point, but my take, no margin of error to toy around , if they see even forwarding to support being unrealistic, then my counter point is - asking a DD to forward without for real support - is equally unrealistic. To play for the team demand a team and only lone wolfing forward as a DD do not made a TEAM ..

take to your heart and ask yourself truly, in today's game meta, how often you see guns push if and when a forward DD finally spots , let alone if that particular DD needing ( instant ) support to escape the now intense fire at the front .. Reality is more likely the guns keep staying back there just so .. and just take the time and opportunity to fire and farm instead of fight and push, and during the interim, there is no AA provided, Radar are not repel and driven off, enemy forward guns are not suppressed, fire cover is few and sparse if any - sadly this is what I see day in day out, games after games .. SUPPORT, hmm sorry, what support ?? Where ?? In the end if they will not risk their precious hull of a ship then they do not had the right to demand others to. That is what I am coming through and NO I will not risk that precious hull of my DD either

As I keep putting it - Dumas got the motto - " ONE for ALL , and ALL for One " - and all I keep reading is people asking DD to be the ONE on the former but they will not be the ALL for the latter ; should then be one playing DD even put the trust upon this so call TEAM !

 

Had to agree most of the time team just do not talk , and this usually further the complication , but that is another matter ..

[Verytis]

18 hours ago, Mechfori said:

That is what I am coming through and NO I will not risk that precious hull of my DD either

Then why would anyone want to risk their hull for you? The logical decision would be stalling as long as possible because they're blind.

Makes perfect sense to me actually. Your team is just working without you.

 

You'd be surprised how much support you can get if you just F3 targets, ping the map and then just watch the fireworks. Its not consistent, but it is definitely there. Just not in the form of people overextending themselves for you.

[Mechfori]

54 minutes ago, Verytis said:

Then why would anyone want to risk their hull for you? ..

NO they need not, but so don't I , why should I stick my neck out and risk mine for them but that is exactly what guns asking for  ...  am not saying they had to risk it all for me, I am saying if they want me to risk my DD, then they need to come out and take up some of the risk themselves too .. and if they do not , then they do not .. and me do not , neither ..

F3 just do not work, you and I all know it , just how many time even when enemy are spotted do guns actually forward or fight it , no all I keep seeing is guns rushing for islands, trekking back, putting as much distance between the enemy as possible. I've had long state it, yes its a self fulfilling circular statement : if you will not forward to give support, then I will not forward to spot ; and if you will not forward to spot, then I will not forward -

am ASKING THE SHIPS WITH MORE, or EVEN THE MOST MARGIN OF ERROR TO COME OUT AND PUT IN THEIR PART  , and if that's too much for the guns then their asking for spotting without giving proper up front support is equally too much -  and they can expect NONE - and if I encounter such I will made sure I SAFE myself before the spotting cause they cannot provide that safety , its just that simple.

 

I know you mean well, pal, you are rational and reasonable in your argument , but rational and reason do not manifest in real world game play , for most guns player the wanting and the need is for someone to spot for them and they demand it, nothing wrong there, and for the vanguard their demand then is support being placed close on hand and provided when and if the need arise , again nothing wrong there .. but those 2 contradict each others when SAFETY are now take into account ..  No one had an answer to that , its a naval combat game so danger is imminent , each and every player need to manage that , and the result is this .. so come much in the end , how can guns who do not forward , place themselves behind rocks most of the time able to provide that much needed effective ( and likely needed on the instant ) support to the vanguard ( not just DD ) , if there is an answer I would like to know too ..

 

[Adorable_KeQing]

19 hours ago, Paladinum said:

My better performance (than yours) in many DDs I play says that. How is it hard to spot something that is at least 5km more detectable than most DDs? Say that to any decent DD player and they will laugh their a$$ off, instead of seriously responding, because it's a stupid thing to say.

 

Imagine playing ships that generally have about 6 km concealment range and say "NO margin of error" unironically. This is too pathetic.

This doesn't even consider DDs like Marceau or any of the super fast gunboat DDs like Mogador, Kleber and Khaba. I despise blanket statements like this.

 

The rest is exactly the same crap so why bother replying to.

I can't stress on how many times I have encountered Mechfori in my game,
Met him last night when he was in his Kiev, and as expected, performance is not ideal at all.

I really wanna try to stop myself from sharing his stats but sometimes I just have to.
This screenshot was taken on 1908 HK time today, his Kiev performance. Now, how does one generally be this well, questionable. I am certain it ain't that hard to play a Kiev especially when all you got to do is sail around and gun around.

How does one simply explain such performance?

I hope I don't get the "guns dont support crap" from him again. But Paladium, my kind sir, can you provide an explanation for this numbers? I simply just can't compute this.
Even a QQ numbered player could have performed way better.

And last night's match, I know I am doomed the moment I saw him on my team, and as per usual, he did surely blasted the guns crap into team chat.

[Paladinum]

20 minutes ago, Verytis said:

You'd be surprised how much support you can get if you just F3 targets, ping the map and then just watch the fireworks. Its not consistent, but it is definitely there. Just not in the form of people overextending themselves for you.

I wonder if Mr. "I'm incompetent but I play high-skill ships but I don't do my jobs and complain about the people that need me to do my jobs" here even uses quick commands or map ping. Seems like he doesn't.

Imagine wanting people to do stuffs without telling them what to do to begin with.

 

12 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

F3 just do not work, you and I all know it

You think you know but you don't. It doesn't always work =/= it never works. A good analogy is: hand sanitizers only kill 99% of common germs and can't kill the remaining 1% so you don't use hand sanitizers at all, because you can still get the 1%. I can't remember how many times I play a DD, F3 a radar ship and someone actually shoots that ship. I can't remember because it happens too many times to count.

I feel like most of your "arguments" are plainly untrue and, sometimes, also blatantly stupid.

 

21 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

and if I encounter such I will made sure I SAFE myself before the spotting cause they cannot provide that safety , its just that simple.

Many of your arguments can be reworded as "I'm incompetent and can't do my duties, so I will drag the whole team down with me. And I refuse to improve on myself. It's just that simple".

You are just bad and DESIRE to stay bad.

 

1 minute ago, Kek_Kek_Kek_KekKing said:

 I hope I don't get the "guns dont support crap" from him again. But Paladium, my kind sir, can you provide an explanation for this numbers? I simply just can't compute this.

One "argument" would be: "Uhhhh I'm new to the ship okay"

If you have time, go into the game, search for my profile and his profile, look for the Akatsuki, and compare the "Contribute to capture", "Contribute to defend" and "Average spotting damage" stats between me and him. Pay special attention to the amount of battles with the Akatsuki. It's so sad.

[Paladinum]

My 340 battle Hindenburg (my most played ship) has higher "Average spotting damage" than his 770 battle Akatsuki. 23k vs 20k (you need to go in the game to see it). A big-aft CA vs a DD. Yeah. That's some proper Eldritch sh*t right there folks. Feel free to go mad trying to make sense of THAT lmfao

[Adorable_KeQing]

15 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

If you have time, go into the game, search for my profile and his profile, look for the Akatsuki, and compare the "Contribute to capture", "Contribute to defend" and "Average spotting damage" stats between me and him. Pay special attention to the amount of battles with the Akatsuki. It's so sad.

Nah, don't have to. Even without doing so, I know you contributed to the team 10 times over more than him, and 10 times more is already considered as being generous under my standards.
 

[Mechfori]

you guys can keep on this , my stance still stand , the team do not provide the support , then the DD do not provide the spotting , you can argue its the other way and I can argue its this way .. no one of us will convince the others .. AGAIN - why should I provide that spotting if the guns are saying they will not provide the due support .. service asked for required service rendered ..

You guys do not had to like it , just as I do not like guns who would not fight the front .. its mutual

[Paladinum]

7 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

you guys can keep on this , my stance still stand , the team do not provide the support , then the DD do not provide the spotting , you can argue its the other way and I can argue its this way .. no one of us will convince the others .. AGAIN - why should I provide that spotting if the guns are saying they will not provide the due support .. service asked for required service rendered ..

 You guys do not had to like it , just as I do not like guns who would not fight the front .. its mutual

Yeah that is why we call you crap - keeping a crappy mentality and refusing to improve. Stay crappy  

Every time you complain about "guns don't push", I'll be here to call you a massive hypocrite