I've taken some time, I think we should talk about Superships...

[S4pp3R]

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/254

So this little section is in the latest Devblog...

I'm all for new ships, lines, types, niches in the game but I'm not ok with the line 'being a technical continuation of T10'.

Simply put I don't want Tier 11 ships. The only way most of the lines can progress further is in a more absurd direction and Tier 10 is already absurd enough.

I had this reaction to Superships initially but I've taken a step back, some time away from the subject and a deep breath before thinking about it more objectively over a long period of time.

I'm still not ok with it.

 

The irony is I'm more ok with Submarines than I am with Superships. (I still think Subs are hyper niche torp DDs in a meta sense and they still have a ways to go).

Submarines have some fresh and interesting mechanics to them, Superships are oversized mammoths which will probably need oversized gimmicks to compensate.

Let me explain a bit better.

Subs will impact your game maybe 5-10% of the time and add an extra layer of complexity that isn't drastically different to stealthy torp boats but is still 'new'.

Superships are an exponential extension on the grind and progression up the tiers if they are implemented (long term) assumedly at Tier 11. What's the difference in XP required between T8-T9 and T9-T10, I wouldn't be surprised if T10-11 would be 500k XP.

They all also have reached their limits as far as a core concept of their type. BBs are just oversized damage pinatas, CRs become BB-like due to size and firepower and DDs become CL-like. Remember, as the Health Pools drastically increase, so too does DPM. And this is a massive power creep as this progression accelerates at higher tiers.

We already have BBs, we already have CLs. Why do we need these ships?

This stinks to high heaven of a game developer running out of content to release long term or just embracing 'power creep' as a concept without thinking about the implications. This is absurd given how many lines (even paper) are left, how many splits have been ignored, etc.

This is even worse when you consider they have so many 'not shipline' elements of content that can be implemented from Scenarios, Maps, Modes and more.

If they have too few ship lines left to implement, taper off line releases to 3 a year or even 2 a year and focus on things the game needs done, starting with the XP system and a prestige cosmetics system... Not to mention game modes, maps, etc.

 

I don't find Superships to be value-adding to the game, if they implement them at Tier 11 instead of just an annual event-ship, all they are doing is extending the grind in what would be an unfun direction for me.
 

Superships are ironically the closest thing to a content implementation that I would consider leaving the game over. I'm not saying I will as that would be hyperbole and very premature but it's seriously making me consider that. This is a concern as I like to think I'm an open-minded person who is happy to consider things fairly objectively.

 

Who'd have thought that Tier 11s would have been my trigger point? I surprise myself.

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

It will just encourage me to play more co-op and to only take lower tier premiums and a select favourite tech tree ships into randoms (for naval battle purposes). This may be an effective way to increase the number of players at mid tier. The silver lining on this dark cloud perhaps.

[Paladinum]

I've said it before, and I will say it again:

K E E P   T H E M

I N

T H E I R   O W N   M O D E

 

1 hour ago, S4pp3R said:

Superships are an exponential extension on the grind and progression up the tiers if they are implemented (long term) assumedly at Tier 11. What's the difference in XP required between T8-T9 and T9-T10, I wouldn't be surprised if T10-11 would be 500k XP.

Soupersheeps are about credit sinking. They will be a branch off the T10, their XP cost is 1 (as opposed to FXP ships), they require at least 1,5 times as much credit to buy and their service cost will also be twice that of a tech tree T10.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/227

In this dev blog, it is said that T10 ships will have "economic advantage" over soupersheeps, but how long WeeGee can keep it that way is a different question. 

[GrumpyAJ]

My hope for a silver lining is that with effectively a T11 MM going on and taking out top tier ships I end up facing less T10s in my T8’s. 

[S4pp3R]

59 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

I've said it before, and I will say it again:

K E E P   T H E M

I N

T H E I R   O W N   M O D E

 

Soupersheeps are about credit sinking. They will be a branch off the T10, their XP cost is 1 (as opposed to FXP ships), they require at least 1,5 times as much credit to buy and their service cost will also be twice that of a tech tree T10.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/227

In this dev blog, it is said that T10 ships will have "economic advantage" over soupersheeps, but how long WeeGee can keep it that way is a different question. 

 

We don't know how that will change in future... ... ... Either way I don't want Superships... But particularly as a 'Tier 11'

But yes - keep them in their own mode - 100% agree.

[S4pp3R]

1 hour ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

It will just encourage me to play more co-op and to only take lower tier premiums and a select favourite tech tree ships into randoms (for naval battle purposes). This may be an effective way to increase the number of players at mid tier. The silver lining on this dark cloud perhaps.

Yeah unfortunately for me it may mean I stop playing... ... 😢

 

45 minutes ago, GrumpyAJ said:

My hope for a silver lining is that with effectively a T11 MM going on and taking out top tier ships I end up facing less T10s in my T8’s. 

Doubtful, it'll just make T9 worse, haha.

[Grygus_Triss]

Agree fully.

For someone who has 20+ T10 ships, a T11 is almost enough for me to say **** it, and throw in the towel.

T9 is the longest hardest grind in the game. The only thing which makes it ok is that at least you’re not fighting ships two tiers higher than you. If T11 is brought in…

It just feels like a slap in the face to be playing T10, ships you strived to for 6 years, to be top tier, and suddenly you aren’t.

But I agree with Sapper in that by the time you turn build T11, the classes turn into a different class.

[Rina_Pon]

"But this one goes to 11..."

Unlike the famous scene though, 11 here really is "one more better". It's an obvious way to grow the game content, the only surprise perhaps is how long WG took to go there. Think about where we are now: Russian CVs, Spanish cruisers, Italian DDs? The bottom of the barrel for new lines is becoming well and truly scraped.

[Paladinum]

WG, STOP SHOVING EVERYTHING INTO CO-OP, RANDOM AND RANKED

What is wrong with you???

 

[Grygus_Triss]

10 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

"But this one goes to 11..."

Unlike the famous scene though, 11 here really is "one more better". It's an obvious way to grow the game content, the only surprise perhaps is how long WG took to go there. Think about where we are now: Russian CVs, Spanish cruisers, Italian DDs? The bottom of the barrel for new lines is becoming well and truly scraped.

Perhaps. But as Sapper suggests, there are more ways to grow the game rather than just new ship lines. New modes, scenarios, many quality of life improvements. Considering WG are pushing out 4 to 5 new lines a year… They didn’t need to move so fast.

The other things of concern, with like… 30+ lines  in the game, it will take WG time to make T11s for everything. So, imagine you’re a new player who recently got your T10 Italian BB (or whatever), and you’re suddenly the only T10 BB in a battle with Hannovers and Satsumas.

After that effort, you never be top tier, at least until WG make a T11 for that line.

T10 is a reward for all the hard work you’ve put in. You’re rewarded for not having to deal with MM putting you at bottom tiers half the time, having to face ships which are more powerful than you by tier.

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

I'd rather have them instead of any possible successor of Thunderer in any kind of form. *points directly at Marlborough*

The Burst Fire gimmick is in fact based on an idea I came up with long ago. But WG execute my idea in a wrong way.

TL;DR
My idea is supposed to be a QoL feature, not a gimmick for specific ships/lines.

 

On the contrary, my opinion about sub is still indifferent. Anything that requires specific tool to counter is stupid yet unnecessary addition that doesn't help to improve the playerbase's quality at all. At least the superships can still be countered through the conventional means.

 

Do I enjoy superships? Heck yes I do! Annapolis is really awakening my will to grind.

The last line I actually did grind through normally was the Italian cruiser line. I flushed my FXP to Oland, Haarlem, and Drake (skipped Surrey & Albemarle completely). I think I flushed around half a million FXP for those ships, I remember my clanmate convinced me to get Alaska on 3 different occasions. I end up missing the chance to get Alaska. But I never set a goal to get Alaska, so I don't consider myself to actually miss something even if it's for an eternity.

Another reason why I stopped grinding line is because I have the different variants of the existing T10 ships such as; Salem > Des Moines, Musashi > Yamato, Yoshino > Zao, Marceau > Kleber.

As for the other superships, I rate them meh. Satsuma is just a glorified Shikishima, Hannover is just a glorified Preussen, etc.

[S4pp3R]

54 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

"But this one goes to 11..."

Unlike the famous scene though, 11 here really is "one more better". It's an obvious way to grow the game content, the only surprise perhaps is how long WG took to go there. Think about where we are now: Russian CVs, Spanish cruisers, Italian DDs? The bottom of the barrel for new lines is becoming well and truly scraped.

Hardly!

And Tier 11 would just be 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' in a different direction.

Lines we still reasonably have left and in no particular order...

1. IJN BCs

2. IJN CLs

3. IJN CV split

4. IJN SS

5. RN BCs

6. RN SS

7. KM CLs

8. KM SS (soon)

9. RM DD (soon)

10. RM CL

11. RM CV

12. MN CV

13. MN CL

14. MN DD split

15. MN BCs

16. EU CLs

17. AE DDs (Spanish)

18. AE CRs

19. AE BBs

20. CW DDs

21. CW CRs

22. CW CVs

23. USN DD split

24. USN BCs

25. USN CV split

26. USN SS (soon)

27. PAM BBs

28. PAM DDs

29. PAM CRs.

There are more if you go down certain paper routes.

My point is that if they are thinking they don't have enough avenues for content and aren't happy with the above list, slow it down, look at other areas for content like maps/etc.

'T11' ships are IMO the worst idea for expansion of content.

[IJN_Katori]

For me. I like this idea since how WW2 becomes more into a tedious and escalate towards history

 

 

 

Other than that. Would love to see superships in all modes.

 

No matter how these superships are. they are welcome in the game and history alike. WG chose the other path instead of doing the Cold war Historical 

[IJN_Katori]

This was already been forshadowed when they revealed Habakkuk in April 1st.

 

 

Turns out that there will be Superships.

 

It was an April fool but then they really decided to put Superships in the fray, just to add the progression in tech tree.

 

 

To clarify, All nations have alot of designs never went into production.

A lot.

 

World of warships is no longer Historical. It may be historical BUT, it's now choosing it's path of Alternate History if World War II becomes more Escalated.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: With Azur Lane in play. WoWs gets alot of lores and deep thoughts.

Even the Container is Gacha.

[Paladinum]

1 hour ago, Rina_Pon said:

Think about where we are now: Russian CVs, Spanish cruisers, Italian DDs? The bottom of the barrel for new lines is becoming well and truly scraped.

I have no idea why you would include Pasta DDs in a list of "The bottom of the barrel for new lines". Their gimmick is hella dumb, but the designs aren't. Only 2/9 designs are paper.

Bias CVs is bias and Spaniard CRs (not confirmed) is truly scraping, however.

 

10 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

20. CW DDs

21. CW CRs

22. CW CVs

The Commonwealth doesn't exist. Please snap out of this delusion.

/s

 

32 minutes ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

As for the other superships, I rate them meh. Satsuma is just a glorified Shikishima, Hannover is just a glorified Preussen, etc.

I don't think the soupersheeps are that strong. They just don't fit in the "core" game modes like Co-op, Random and Ranked. Definitely not Ranked that includes "normal" tech tree ships.

If WG want include soupersheeps in the "core" modes, they can, and I can be quite indifferent to it, but I have little trust that WG could actually do it.

[S4pp3R]

16 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

The Commonwealth doesn't exist. Please snap out of this delusion.

/s

You sting me with such venom 

But how am I to know if you saying that isn't the actual delusion..............

[Paladinum]

1 minute ago, S4pp3R said:

But how am I to know if you saying that isn't the actual delusion..............

Wait until 2024 to find out?

[S4pp3R]

11 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Wait until 2024 to find out?

Probably too soon 

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

1 hour ago, Paladinum said:

I don't think the soupersheeps are that strong. They just don't fit in the "core" game modes like Co-op, Random and Ranked. Definitely not Ranked that includes "normal" tech tree ships.

If WG want include soupersheeps in the "core" modes, they can, and I can be quite indifferent to it, but I have little trust that WG could actually do it.

All WG need to do are:

1. Keep their words that the supership would indeed be costly to run. Sure WG have stated they would indeed be expensive to run, but that statement is not final. By keeping the service cost high, the population would be more controlled.
2. Make sure they don't drag anything below T10 into the same pool. Most (if not all) of the T10 ships can handle the superships. But there are only few handful of ships at T9 can do the same. But considering that WG have successfully put limit on the CV per team, it's only up to WG's willingness to do the same on the superships.
3. Resetting lines should not include the superships. But then again, RB is still a stupid feature.
4. Superships should be excluded from the competitive modes. Because by allowing them to be included in those modes, WG would not do; Ranked, Clan Battles, Brawl, etc. other than at T10 as the minimum.

[Fighting_Temeraire]

4 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

 

We don't know how that will change in future... ... ... Either way I don't want Superships... But particularly as a 'Tier 11'

But yes - keep them in their own mode - 100% agree.

Like I wanted with submarines......

[SgtSullyNZ]

5 hours ago, GrumpyAJ said:

My hope for a silver lining is that with effectively a T11 MM going on and taking out top tier ships I end up facing less T10s in my T8’s. 

if any of this is to work then 1 tier MM needs to be a thing having a t8 dived with a t9 and get dragged into this will be BS

[S4pp3R]

1 hour ago, Fighting_Temeraire said:

Like I wanted with submarines......

And that's a position I can understand, even if I don't entirely agree.

I have no issue with folks disagreeing with me, in fact I prefer it.

These are different things to consider and as I outlined in the OP, my issue is Superships scope creeping past Tier 10 to Tier 11 and a further blurring of the lines between ship types...

And that may be (for me) a line in the sand, we'll see.

[humusz]

meh, I already expect they will go that direction

The Modes is plagued with people just "Feeding" for Supership tokens. it wont be long that they will be come to Random battle

They have been run out Content. I mean Whats the point of having Pan European if There also DUTCH and SPAIN. it wont be long before Pan EU be renamed pan IKEA or smth

 

They have been thinking of Implementing MISSILES for YEARSS now. You all must heard it once in a while. they have been itching for that, but it wont fit current T10.

and Im quite sure, WG will Gaijin-nify by going to follow Warthunder path and have Missile Slinging ships in Future

Unlike Submarine where they once said "NO",  They never said NO to Missiles

[Grygus_Triss]

I think I’m in the minority, in that I do not want all my hard work of reaching T10 undone by having another tier above that. Many of the older T10s are already power crept by newer ones. T11s just man you will be in more battles where you’re overpowered.

Maybe it’s just a mentality I have, that being bottom tier is bad…

The fact that, by all accounts, WG seem to be setting these ships up to be a credit sink, meaning only those with credits to spare can use them, means that for those of us who don’t want to pay much, or have a life outside the game, will basically be stuck at T10…

Or maybe it’s just my OCD tendencies acting up. As someone who is trying to “collect” every non-CV tech tree T10, not being on “top” of the tech tree bugs me to no end.

[S0und_Theif]

Introduce T11 ships, so WG can sell overpriced T9 and T10 ships.

Notice the jump in price from T8?

 

WG did promise not to sell high tier ships.

Which they did keep their promise.

By moving the goal post.

 

It's all about the money and short term gains.

It always has been.