In-Depth - Scenario Mode and the potential of Operations...

[S4pp3R]

G'day folks!

So I often talk about Scenario Mode and Operations and how it is wasted potential... Here is a discussion video on methods to improve it...

I don't know if WG will ever re-examine Scenario Mode, but we can hope.

They have a lot of potential to solve some game and mode progression issues, not to mention education issues.

 

 

[RalphTheTheatreCat]

I agree with you S4pp3r.    Scenarios and ops are an untapped recourse at the moment.  My opinion is that any push for anything above T7 ops wont gather momentum as players who choose to skip these ranks will burn FXP and scenarios would reduce that immensely.  T6/7 help players grind easily to these ranks that prove a longer grind.

 

I would love to see Dynamo and Cherry Blossom or similar styles back in the game.   The reasons you list are exactly the reasons why scenarios should be looked at again.

[S4pp3R]

1 hour ago, RalphTheTheatreCat said:

I agree with you S4pp3r.    Scenarios and ops are an untapped recourse at the moment.  My opinion is that any push for anything above T7 ops wont gather momentum as players who choose to skip these ranks will burn FXP and scenarios would reduce that immensely.  T6/7 help players grind easily to these ranks that prove a longer grind.

 

I would love to see Dynamo and Cherry Blossom or similar styles back in the game.   The reasons you list are exactly the reasons why scenarios should be looked at again.

Thanks mate!

I sort of understand not having T9/10 Ops from a progression standpoint but at the very least we need more in the T4-8 bracket.

Unfortunately the community-at-large has somehow bought into an anti Ops mentality, probs on account of certain prominent  personalities.

Even then though there's a lot of potential at low to mid tiers.

[Grygus_Triss]

Great video. While I disagree with some points, such as allowing mixed tier in the team (I remember when T5s were allowed), I would honestly we happy to see any of these things implemented if it meant improvements to Scenarios.

[Grygus_Triss]

@mademoisail

I know WG’s position is “Operations are not popular”, but do you believe they have the potential to be with the right care?

What do you think would need to be done to improve them to make them popular?

[S4pp3R]

39 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Great video. While I disagree with some points, such as allowing mixed tier in the team (I remember when T5s were allowed), I would honestly we happy to see any of these things implemented if it meant improvements to Scenarios.

It could work if the difficulty scaling was done semi decently...

[Mechfori]

3 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

Thanks mate!

I sort of understand not having T9/10 Ops from a progression standpoint but at the very least we need more in the T4-8 bracket.

Unfortunately the community-at-large has somehow bought into an anti Ops mentality, probs on account of certain prominent  personalities.

Even then though there's a lot of potential at low to mid tiers.

 

The Community is not against Ops and Scenarios, they are against badly implemented Ops and Scenarios and that had been for far too long what the community get ..

[S4pp3R]

1 minute ago, Mechfori said:

The Community is not against Ops and Scenarios, they are against badly implemented Ops and Scenarios and that had been for far too long what the community get ..

We'll see mate; reception on this one has been mixed.

[Thyaliad]

1 hour ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Great video. While I disagree with some points, such as allowing mixed tier in the team (I remember when T5s were allowed), I would honestly we happy to see any of these things implemented if it meant improvements to Scenarios.

Tbh T5s weren't too bad, depending on the Scenario and the ship. I remember my Iron Duke having no problems carrying its own weight in Newport, and this was before Newport's difficulty was reduced. For easier Operations like Killer Whale they have no issue performing.

Actually a big reason T5s got a bad rep was after the Dunkirk Operation. Back then it was a special Operation where you could only use 3 ships, 2 or which were exclusive to that Operation - Anthony and Cyclone. You would get max level captains to go along with the ships, so by playing them you got elite captain xp. The issue was WG screwed up - after the Dunkirk Operation ended the normal Operations were added back, but WG did not remove the Anthony and Cyclone. So you would have people playing the Anthony and Cyclone on Killer Whale to get elite captain xp. The problem? Anthony and Cyclone were not balanced for the regular Scenarios - in Dunkirk they only had to shoot PT boats and terribly weak planes. They ended up being extremely underpowered - it was like bringing T1 ships to a T5 game.

[Mechfori]

Even under current scheme there are things WG can do to improve this game mode but of course they would not do anything regarding, how hard would it be to implement random choosing of an operation when players enter into a queue. Yeah so you get your T6 BB, Cruiser or DD into the queue but you would not know you end up on Newport, or tasked to save Raptor .. of course now this option only apply t T6 but the principle is there .

How hard is it to implement 2 tier team spread into the ops, in fact its going to made it even easier and merrier for players .. Narai can be T6/T7 .. all the others can be T5/T6 , and then we can allow Mission to be inclusive of the game mode

And expending on the above, how about dynamic team roster count .. so if the team comprise of more low tier then the team will be allocated an extra ship ( so 8 ships instead of 7 , or so )

How hard is it to implement random enemy ships ( well in theory WG had balance the same tier, same type ship to be equal, but well we know ) So instead of Colorado coming out at the end of Narai, we might get Sinop instead

And the list can go on .... but WG is putting themselves in a self defined cocoon " we will not made much or any effort towards Ops, cause Ops are not popular " but then they fail to explain or even wanting to acknowledge why it is unpopular

 

[BigWaveSurfer]

It is funny that on one hand Wging complains not enough people are playing low tier and yet it looks like they do everything in there power to stop players from playing low tier. 

RB does nothing to get players to play lower tiers. All combat mission are T5+ which does nothing to help.

So maybe some low tier ops would help and be fun for all those low tier premiums ships, T3-5 would be nice.

But that just my 2 cents.

[legionary2099]

Why not let them integrate low tier ops into how to play sessions where they guide player through game mechanics with simple A to B quest ? This game don't have a tutorial yet.

Then get into harder ops that require more coordination or marathon multi operation string. We are lacking challenge in PvE as is and lack variety. There should be an F you mode where enemy get 200% health and 50% more damage.

I got bored of Narai so much that we could complete it 5 stars with only 3 - 4 guys.

My point is they could reuse random map and pull in challenges like survive for X minute or reach Y alive. Simple coding, but with harder enemies that have buffs.

Then they could create PvE rewards that is worthy of the challenge like research points or rare items, skins, ...

[S4pp3R]

14 minutes ago, BigWaveSurfer said:

It is funny that on one hand Wging complains not enough people are playing low tier and yet it looks like they do everything in there power to stop players from playing low tier. 

RB does nothing to get players to play lower tiers. All combat mission are T5+ which does nothing to help.

So maybe some low tier ops would help and be fun for all those low tier premiums ships, T3-5 would be nice.

But that just my 2 cents.

I just don't believe that statement of reason.

Too much of their messaging has been ambiguous or just dumb over the years.

I don't think they want people to play lower tiers, they don't make as much money from that. I do think they want to support low-mid tier play but only enough to get people to higher tier play.

The thing is, there is some foundations for something particularly good for Operations, something that assists in bridging players from casual/new into committed and invested. Player retention at all levels is a majorly good way to increase the health of the game and a supported Scenario Mode is a great step towards improving that.

[S4pp3R]

2 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

Why not let them integrate low tier ops into how to play sessions where they guide player through game mechanics with simple A to B quest ? This game don't have a tutorial yet.

Then get into harder ops that require more coordination or marathon multi operation string. We are lacking challenge in PvE as is and lack variety. There should be an F you mode where enemy get 200% health and 50% more damage.

I got bored of Narai so much that we could complete it 5 stars with only 3 - 4 guys.

My point is they could reuse random map and pull in challenges like survive for X minute or reach Y alive. Simple coding, but with harder enemies that have buffs.

Then they could create PvE rewards that is worthy of the challenge like research points or rare items, skins, ...

100%

Although I would pitch it a little above the basics.

I would address common misconceptions with it, for such things that I mentioned in the video like Aircraft attack patterns, understanding armour, understanding overmatch, etc.

Then be clever with how you build that Op and be able to toggle that tutorial aspect and you have a fun new mission for everyone else as well.

[Grygus_Triss]

1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

Tbh T5s weren't too bad, depending on the Scenario and the ship. I remember my Iron Duke having no problems carrying its own weight in Newport, and this was before Newport's difficulty was reduced. For easier Operations like Killer Whale they have no issue performing.

Actually a big reason T5s got a bad rep was after the Dunkirk Operation. Back then it was a special Operation where you could only use 3 ships, 2 or which were exclusive to that Operation - Anthony and Cyclone. You would get max level captains to go along with the ships, so by playing them you got elite captain xp. The issue was WG screwed up - after the Dunkirk Operation ended the normal Operations were added back, but WG did not remove the Anthony and Cyclone. So you would have people playing the Anthony and Cyclone on Killer Whale to get elite captain xp. The problem? Anthony and Cyclone were not balanced for the regular Scenarios - in Dunkirk they only had to shoot PT boats and terribly weak planes. They ended up being extremely underpowered - it was like bringing T1 ships to a T5 game.

Yeah, that was one of the big issues, I remember that. Dynamo was around for a few weeks, but only Op of the Week for one week. Rather than gating them for Dynamo only, WG gated them for Ops in general, so when Op of the week changed to the normal ops, players used the two T5s.

And they were NOT designed for anything else other than Dynamo. They didn't even have the full DD toolset.

The other problem was T5 CVs. Obviously Ops only allowed 1 CV. At that point in the game, T5 CVs had their manual Drop abilities removed, so they were greatly limited in what they could do in Ops compared to a T6. Wouldn't matterr too much in Random when CV Tiers were mirrored, in Ops where you always fought the same enemies regardless of tier in team, became a problem.

Certain ships can be a problem in Ops, DDs, for instance, need a lot of skill to be effective. But the idea of scaling enemies would solve that.

[SgtSullyNZ]

For Lower Tier Operations, especially as we will see Von Der Tann, Derflinger added with the German BB split, Maybe a Jutland map and scenario. this would be a T4/5. And an intro to Operations without CVs. One point that you may have overlooked or not discussed, and what I think Operations is vital for is Team work. The Thing that is so sadly lacking in Randoms, Operations have an enemy with a Plan, they engage, you have to bring ships that fit a role, and you have to play that role, everyone has to contribute or the Mission can fail. And that is the building block for Team Work. As each patch is bringing new tweaks and Ships, mostly, then maybe a reset of the rewards each patch, as different ships, changes the Dynamics of the current Operations, as some may have seen what Weimar is capable of in Op Narai? Operations are not covered much by CCs, TCFreer is a champion of it, and there are not many YouTube videos that cover the content. and there is a lot of content, what ships/ roles work, what do not. as a newish player, coming up to 3 years now. I would love to play some of these other Operations like Ultimate Frontier. And as you have mentioned these bring new maps, and the possibility of new concepts, Narai is great as Convoy protection and can be expanded on to a More Battle of the Atlantic/ Or Arctic Convoy protection missions? Maybe as Tier 8, where you get to try Radar out and Hydro Acoustic Searches better? Using Old Islands of Ice map? Thank you for these videos S4pp3R, and hope I can provide some help with my limited experience. If we do not engage the newer players they will not stick around, especially with better options always just on the horizon.

 

This is pasted from my You Tube comments. Reposted here for those that have not watched the video or choose to comment here on the forums, which is the best forum for the discussion I suppose. 

Look forward to your thoughts and comments

[Mechfori]

1 hour ago, legionary2099 said:

...

My point is they could reuse random map and pull in challenges like survive for X minute or reach Y alive. Simple coding, but with harder enemies that have buffs.

Then they could create PvE rewards that is worthy of the challenge like research points or rare items, skins, ...

Or simply reuse past event , how about making " Saving Transylvania " an Op and instead of requiring us to play the Halloween special ships, let us bring along our own choosing of DD , Cruiser, BB of the tier specific instead , you know similar for may event specials

[S4pp3R]

2 hours ago, SgtSullyNZ said:

This is pasted from my You Tube comments. Reposted here for those that have not watched the video or choose to comment here on the forums, which is the best forum for the discussion I suppose. 

Look forward to your thoughts and comments

Great post mate and thankyou

And I wouldn't say your experience is limited, you have quite a number of battles under your belt, all modes considered.

[Manacetamol]

I'm starving for Ops now

At least 8 Ops for current stage of the game

Must have from T5 to T7

 

Wait U missed Hermes

[S4pp3R]

4 minutes ago, Manacetamol said:

I'm starving for Ops now

At least 8 Ops for current stage of the game

Must have from T5 to T7

I wish, I mean 8 would be Cherry Blossom, Dynamo and Frontiers ...

I really want some more fresh ones on top of that at this point in the game.

Having said that I would have expected more notmal maps by now too.

[S0und_Theif]

Great vid @S4pp3R.

Especially the part:

Operations can be a better integration between co-op and randoms.

And the:

Teaching new players about the game mechanics.

 

Also scenarios / operations can be a long term income for WG.

Not only in a premium ship stand point but also in the game population stand point.

But sadly, WG follows the path of the orange avarice, and is not tapping the potential of this game mode.

It's like, there is oil and natural gas there, but WG didn't attempt to extract it.

 

As of writing, the YT vid and the reddit are mostly positive.

[S0und_Theif]

For a T9 scenario, there are already T11 and T12 ships available in the game, so why not put them to their paces.

BB
Shikishima
Incomparable (Upcoming)
Hannover
Satsuma

CA
Napoli

DD
Rangar

Imagine WG suddenly released more CA with 254 mm / 10 inch guns, CL with 179 mm / 7 inch guns, CB with 350, 357, 360 mm guns, and DD with 152 mm guns. Tech tree or premium.

 

 

I know there will be conservatives on the T9 operations in a progression stand point.

But since WG is already selling T9 ships for doubloons and / or cash, might as well let them whale T9 ships.

Tech tree via early access and premium via doubloons and / or cash.

[Manacetamol]

5 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

For a T9 scenario, there are already T11 and T12 ships available in the game, so why not put them to their paces.

BB
Shikishima
Incomparable (Upcoming)
Hannover
Satsuma

 

Slava and K-1000

[Max_Battle]

Of course I am in favour of any favourable discusion favouring a favourable outcome for operations.

 

[S0und_Theif]

28 minutes ago, Manacetamol said:

Slava and K-1000

 

I also forgot that one odd cruiser with 380 mm / 15 inch guns.

The O class, Siegfried.