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Rina_Pon

DDs and cruiser numbers up, CV and BB down. The MM forecast looks good!

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Hard to believe it wasn't that long ago that it would be rare to find more than 2 DD per team in randoms, no matter what tier. These days 3-4 is normal, and cruiser numbers are back up to reasonable levels too.

So ... this is all due to the recent CV nerf, is it? I don't play CV, so I'm only going by hearsay and the fact that I haven't been seriously bothered by a CV recently. Spotted occasionally, yes, but I haven't been dumpstered by one in a long time.

It's funny that as soon as you take away the ability to do damage, CV becomes much less interested in spotting a DD, too. All in all a much easier time. And more DDs means more fun as a DD player, too, because it means more DD vs DD fights, more complex multi-DD strategies.

And more DDs means more radar cruisers, and more cruisers generally, which also makes the game healthier in my opinion.

A good time to play the US DD and US CA lines. Fletcher has been my go-to ship all week. 

Edited by Rina_Pon
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I would not want to work US DD line though. Their tools heavily rely on your team know what they are doing and exploit the chances you give them.

Not exactly a nice combination to work with on this server. US DD is quite weak alone.

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What I found in my point of view are more DDs per team now, about 3-4 are common. IDK on high tier battles, but in Mid tiers, that what I saw. Some or most of those DDs are not yet to catch what kind of battle DD are supposed to be. Many of them perished try to Yolo torping large targets, and sometimes failed to escape torpedoes spamming from enemy DDs, especially when hiding too long inside smoke.

The other one that changed are cruiser players behavior, they are now busy spamming HE one large targets such as BBs or CVs. But in the process, sometime they'd ignored the presence of enemy DDs. Maybe they just too focused on farming damage from large target, but failed to recognized that they are the most reliable class to counter DDs at current time.

Once again, it's all just my opinion from my point of view based on mid tier battles which is the most battle I've done lately.

Edited by Sharr_Dextera
a few corrections.

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3 hours ago, Sharr_Dextera said:

What I found in my point of view are more DDs per team now, about 3-4 are common. IDK on high tier battles, but in mind tiers, that what I saw. Some or most of those DDs are not yet to catch what kind of battle DD are supposed to be. Many of them perished try to Yolo torping large targets, and sometimes failed to escape torpedoes spamming from enemy DDs, especially when hiding too long inside smoke.

The other one that changed are cruiser players behavior, they are now busy spamming HE one large targets such as BBs or CVs. But in the process, sometime they'd ignored the presence of enemy DDs. Maybe they just too focused on farming damage from large target, but failed to recognized that they are the most reliable class to counter DDs at current time.

Once again, it's all just my opinion from my point of view based on mid tier battles which is the most battle I've done lately.

That's low and mid tier, they are still in the learning process there .. and of course the game mechanic and reward system do not help here .. their behaviour is no more and no less than camping BB or long range sniping Cruiser at high tier. I would say its only a patch old, so it take time to get everything set into place and stabilized ( that is until WG come in and screw that with yet another change )

Edited by Mechfori
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7 hours ago, Sharr_Dextera said:

What I found in my point of view are more DDs per team now, about 3-4 are common. IDK on high tier battles, but in mind tiers, that what I saw. Some or most of those DDs are not yet to catch what kind of battle DD are supposed to be. Many of them perished try to Yolo torping large targets, and sometimes failed to escape torpedoes spamming from enemy DDs, especially when hiding too long inside smoke.

Unfortunately high tiers are no different. Full of DDs who don't know how to play.

And with CVs nerfed, DDs got even more influential on the match. So if you happen to have bad DDs on the team, just give up. So many matches decided purely in the first 5 minutes of the game.

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1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

Unfortunately high tiers are no different. Full of DDs who don't know how to play.

And with CVs nerfed, DDs got even more influential on the match. So if you happen to have bad DDs on the team, just give up. So many matches decided purely in the first 5 minutes of the game.

It's true that as CV influence on game outcome is reduced, DD influence has increased. With only one CV per side, if your side had a terrible CV you were going to lose, and the same with 1 DD per side. With 4 DD per team, however, it is far more likely to balance out evenly.

Honestly though, a well played Cleveland can have every bit as much influence as a well played Benson, and I've seen just as many games thrown due to poor BB play as I have poor DD play. We all know losses are typically random cascade events anyway, the first one or two mistakes made by any boat on either side usually deciding the final outcome.

DD's usually get the blame simply because any mistake is instantly punishable by deletion, and because the only way to learn is by making mistakes. That's fair, though, as DD main I accept that my Karma is the team's stress relief. 

Fact is 4 DD per side makes for enjoyable gameplay, and allows for more variation in DD roles and tactics.

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6 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

Honestly though, a well played Cleveland can have every bit as much influence as a well played Benson, and I've seen just as many games thrown due to poor BB play as I have poor DD play. We all know losses are typically random cascade events anyway, the first one or two mistakes made by any boat on either side usually deciding the final outcome.

I am going to have to disagree on this one.

I find teams are still able to bounce back from losing a cruiser. It depends on the cruiser, but most of the time you are just losing DPS. Lose a DD on the other hand, you lose spotting, you lose area denial, you lose torp screening, you lose cap contesting, and most importantly you lose the only thing that can reliably spot and counter the opposing DD. Radar is temporary and can be baited, while CVs give up damage to do spotting and cannot be everywhere at once. Honestly when I am playing DDs I fear enemy DDs more than I fear radar or CVs.

Yes you can make an impact in your cruiser, but that's only if your team's DDs know how to take care of themselves. If your team's DDs die, you have an uphill battle of turning the game around. Unless the enemy team throws, the only impact you have in your cruiser is whether you team loses in 10 mins or at 20 minutes.

Those are just my experiences. Maybe you experience differently, in which case I envy you.

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33 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

DD explodes

From GB so far, losing a DD hurts big time and it is virtually impossible to win if you lost your entire dd squad. Unless the other team's dds throw away their lives. 

I have seen so many dds just beeline to cap instead of taking some time out to see the enemy team's position especially the radar cruisers. Shima goes into cap and promptly gets chased out while losing half its health or more.

At a numerical disadvantage but have the only dd(s) left in the game? You can still win because you have the advantage of stealth and capping ability. Unless you have a suicidal maniac of a dd that doesn't understand the meaning of STAY ALIVE. 

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8 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

I am going to have to disagree on this one.

I find teams are still able to bounce back from losing a cruiser. It depends on the cruiser, but most of the time you are just losing DPS.

A correctly positioned radar cruiser provides cap denial. As a DD, it completely locks me out of the cap zone if the enemy team has cruiser/radar coverage and I don't. You aren't wrong ... no one gets upset if the team's Atago gets blapped at the 3 minute mark, and for good reason: it doesn't matter. That said, if I'm sitting in a Yugumo or Z-46 looking at a cap guarded by a Buffalo and a Riga, with their DD in the cap, I'm basically stuck twiddling my thumbs until if and when my team deals with the situation.

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On 7/7/2021 at 7:00 PM, Rina_Pon said:

A correctly positioned radar cruiser provides cap denial. As a DD, it completely locks me out of the cap zone if the enemy team has cruiser/radar coverage and I don't. You aren't wrong ... no one gets upset if the team's Atago gets blapped at the 3 minute mark, and for good reason: it doesn't matter. That said, if I'm sitting in a Yugumo or Z-46 looking at a cap guarded by a Buffalo and a Riga, with their DD in the cap, I'm basically stuck twiddling my thumbs until if and when my team deals with the situation.

It's the current dilemma that debate can go on forever , yes Spotting is what DD can provide , but why do so , why risk oneself, and go into harm's way , knowing there is little to no reward when all the others enjoy safe sniping, farming, and be rewarded .. If the team demand DD or CL to go into harm's way to give them the service, then equally they must also place themselves into harm's way to function Tanking, Close Support, Fire Cover but are we seeing that today  ??? The same can be said for so may Tasks that are placed on DD, CL, and lesser but there, CV .... in short the game negatively incentive them to play the part.

Planes and Radar's made up exclusion zone , that is what it is. And it boils down to how the team's heavy firepower can eliminate that or drive that all back beyond the area and beyond that Radar coverage range.

Edited by Mechfori

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if the enemy radar cruisers support DD that's usually a win for them. from my experience, i rarely get any support as cruisers and BB like to camp.

when I play DD, I mostly go with Jutland or T8 Lightening, both with Radio Location and i hunt down enemy DD first. as soon as the DD(s) is/are dead in the area, the enemy instinctively either rush and eat my fish or retreat.  Recently i managed to get a Radio Location skill on Yugumo and now i don't cap at start. I fire 12km torps into contested caps. i'll see how it goes

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Looks like subs magic is working. Slow BBs are vulnerable. Add to that subs are frustrating to hit. DDs are effective on subs, well at least in the real world. It wasn't unusual in World War 2 to have DD hunting groups out to seek out U-boats. Though I would think there would be some sort of rebalance that's going to happen down the line. Personally I think most still feel subs should not be ingame (or at least have its own game mode).

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Subs now only on Co-Op and that environment cannot be taken as a yardstick to measure how it come off on PVP , Random or Competitive. Its some time and the change and trend are stabilizing , I would not say the increase of DD actually get to the point of keep seeing 4 DD per game but 2 DD per team is common and 3 DD per team is not rare , with that said , though the meta do not change , its still a matter of how well the cruisers can push forward to provide support, and simply put I am seeing too many Super Cruiser per game , and they just do not forward , they play like BB instead of cruisers. Yeah they got slow reload ( as far as cruisers go ) but still that does not mean they should be sticking at the back , many even further back than BB. This meta continues with not enough Cruisers and those who do come usually are Radars ... that still create the exclusion to DDs 

So while the change inject some live into the game, its still pretty passive by al account

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1 hour ago, Mechfori said:

Subs now only on Co-Op and that environment cannot be taken as a yardstick to measure how it come off on PVP , Random or Competitive. Its some time and the change and trend are stabilizing , I would not say the increase of DD actually get to the point of keep seeing 4 DD per game but 2 DD per team is common and 3 DD per team is not rare , with that said , though the meta do not change , its still a matter of how well the cruisers can push forward to provide support, and simply put I am seeing too many Super Cruiser per game , and they just do not forward , they play like BB instead of cruisers. Yeah they got slow reload ( as far as cruisers go ) but still that does not mean they should be sticking at the back , many even further back than BB. This meta continues with not enough Cruisers and those who do come usually are Radars ... that still create the exclusion to DDs 

So while the change inject some live into the game, its still pretty passive by al account

I understood that submarines were in Ranked as well? At least that was my experience in the first Ranked season last week. I faced a few of them.

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22 minutes ago, Majmac said:

I understood that submarines were in Ranked as well? At least that was my experience in the first Ranked season last week. I faced a few of them.

Oops forget that so how's the impression regarding subs in Rank play

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16 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Oops forget that so how's the impression regarding subs in Rank play

They do not seem to be as big a threat as DDs or CVs.

I play CLs or BBs.

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Generally pretty weak. If your bb players are even a little bit attentive the subs can be horribly worked over before they are a threat to anyone.

SS seem to be hugely team dependent, if the enemy dds can be taken out then they have some room to push up, but mostly they seem to play mid to late game parts, the first bit is just getting somewhere.

Nearly always at the bottom of the leaderboard in ranked.

Overall they work best against distracted players who are under pressure not to use repair parties. As an aside there are a lot of sub drivers who run ramming flags and sinking weapons and nimble sub captain builds.

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