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funkle17

HMAS HOBART lll launch today

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Alpha Tester
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Australia's newest Air Warfare Destroyer is being launched in Adelaide today.

There's a live stream for anyone that does not live close to Adelaide.

 

http://stagingconnections.org/webcasts/AWD/AWD.html

 

https://www.facebook.com/ascptyltd?fref=nf

Edited by funkle17

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Beta Tester
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still another 18 months from commissioning :(

 

At least it's being finished.

 

*Meanwhile in the "Great" Britain*

 

*Look at the Queen Elizabeth Class*

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Senior Moderator
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But...............Its not big..............and boxlike...................like the Canberra!

 

I would hope not, then again it is ASC building it.....:hiding:

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It should sink well, after all, they did build our subs

 

I know it's meant in humor but people really need to stop blaming ASC for everything wrong with the Collins class and the AWD project. When one actually looks into the factors surrounding each project ASC has actually done better then many others in similar situations.

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[SIF]
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I know it's meant in humor but people really need to stop blaming ASC for everything wrong with the Collins class and the AWD project. When one actually looks into the factors surrounding each project ASC has actually done better then many others in similar situations.

 

Why - over time, over budget, over the errors that put lives at risk...that's ASC for you. Yes the Collins are now a fabulous sub, and I am sure the AWD will be eventualy, but I for one do not trust them, and I would hate for fellow sailors to get hurt by something that could have been prevented

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Being ex RAN.. Im Assuming you have both been in the Submarine service then as to date that is the only true way for any member of the navy to have had any serious dealings with the ASC.

 

As to over time, over budget. There are factors that come into play that cause such issues.

 

Over time. Well on one hand the initial delivery schedule as grossly optimistic with people in the ship building field telling the government it would be impossible to get a new class if ship built in that time in a ship yard that had never built a ship before. Even an experienced ship yard would have issues meeting the time frame with a new design. 

 

Other issues involved poor workmanship on a single block by BAE, But having to train up raw recruits that is to be expected. Navantia provided poor plans, The Rudd government ordered the work be slowed down 18 months to spread it out, A poorly set up AWD alliance having all the companies and organisations thrown in together but no actual entity in charge and only just coming out of another valley of death with no programs worth mentioning since the Anzac class frigate.

 

On the Collin's class none of the actual fault's on them can be attributed to the ASC. The only instance of crappy welds, That block cam from Sweden. Cavitation due to hull shape and the prop shape, Government/Naval brass having it changed after design had been tested then not paying for a new test. Crappy engines, Not even Australian and have had issues changing due to IP right's and law's. In fact ASC had to make a lot of the fixes them selves, They took a crappy submarine and made it great. With the time frame, Well they made one mistake.. They built the first one, And before that was even launched the 2nd and 3rd submarines were well on the way to being complete along with pieces of the remaining 3. Having to fix up parts also meant having to strip down the nearly complete 2 other and all the other pieces, Takes a lot more time to fix a fault if you have gone and built a number of plat forms already. As to maintenance well if people even bothered to read other sources beyond your every day news paper then you would see that the have reduced the refit times down to global standards and more and more boat's are being operational at a given time.

 

Over  Budget. True, This stuff does happen and in fact it even happened to the Spanish on the frigate Álvaro de Bazán. For any navy and ship yard not to go over budget when starting a new project is almost unheard of, Happens to every one at one point or another because not everything on a plan can be accounted for and fixing it real world is the only way. What 99% of people don't take into account is with the budget it is in Australian dollar's, A lot of systems, material's and so on we have to acquire from over seas thus we are in the predicament of being tied to exchange rates. With the AUD falling against the Euro and USD costs will rise for us. They also don't take into account the $8b (know $9.2b) AWD project wasnt just for 3 ships. It was for upgrades to ship yards around Australia, To build a dedicated ship yard for it in SA, To buy all the weapon systems and all the munitions/missiles. Once you actually start taking those costs out of the factor (No other country includes them in the costs, Only we do) and account for the exchange rate we are actually doing pretty bloody good, People also seem to think the end cost is $9b divide by 3, When in fact the second ship is on its way to coming in 30% less then that of the Hobart.

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Beta Tester
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Now all we need is some decent subs....

I really do hope they end up buying nuclear subs from Japan instead of more diesel subs... 

While on the subject i really wish they never bought that f35 lightning lemon plane, should have bought euro fighters. 

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Now all we need is some decent subs....

I really do hope they end up buying nuclear subs from Japan instead of more diesel subs... 

While on the subject i really wish they never bought that f35 lightning lemon plane, should have bought euro fighters. 

 

Won't go nuc, policy set in stone there (lots of tactical reasons not to as well).

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Beta Tester
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Won't go nuc, policy set in stone there (lots of tactical reasons not to as well).

 

The technology in nuclear subs has gotten so much better since that policy was introduced, in 2015 there is no reason to have anything but a nuclear sub, they are quieter plain and simple, thats what you want in a sub. 

Heck in one of those loud clunky collins class subs our crews give the Americans a run for their money, imagine if we gave them proper weapons. 

 

Plus do you think Russia would be game enough to try and intimidate our navy again if we had 12 nuclear subs patrolling our oceans? because i don't 

Edited by Fear_the_Reaper

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[SIF]
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The technology in nuclear subs has gotten so much better since that policy was introduced, in 2015 there is no reason to have anything but a nuclear sub, they are quieter plain and simple, thats what you want in a sub. 

Heck in one of those loud clunky collins class subs our crews give the Americans a run for their money, imagine if we gave them proper weapons. 

 aarrrrr....NO

 

A nuc sub is loader then a conventional, since they have to run water pumps to keep the reactor cool. That problem has been addressed in the later subs coming out, but they are still loader in general terms.

Our Collins class are very quiet, which is the reason that our little sub creaped up behind a 1.5billion dollar nuclear submarine with out being detected, and stayed there for several days.

 

For subs, what you want and were:-

Nuclear - long range, deep ocean patrols. Water pressure at depth allows the water pumps to be shut down, can run silent, able to produce their own air and water.

Conventional - Shallow water, close in land. Needs to snorkel at least once every couple of days to recharge batteries, can produce water, but needs fresh supply of air.

 

The US navy is looking into acquiring conventional submarines again, they were looking at ASC and the Collins class, but more likely, US will build their own again. We already have USN Sailors from the submarine world training in our conventional submarines. 

 

 

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Alpha Tester
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Conventional subs are also a hell of a lot cheaper to build and maintain, as well as the improved performance in shallower waters. 

 

And theres the fueling problem. With the sort of capital outlay for buying/building a nuclear sub, and the design life of most modern units, you'll have them service for most of this century, which means youre going to have to refuel at least once. That means disposing of spent fuel rods and procuring more, each of which is an enormously difficult and expensive process, that would require outsourcing to other countries or entirely new infrastructure. 

 

Role is also important. SSNs were mostly developed for hunter/killer roles against capital units and SSBNs in the Atlantic and Pacific (assuming the Cold War ever went hot). Theyre a long range offensive weapon designed primarily for deep water combat. But for territorial defense, you dont really need that sort of extreme operational range, so diesel boats are perfectly viable and probably much better suited due to the shallow water performance & stealth attributes. 

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