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S0und_Theif

​⚠️ Submarines Test Results and Further Steps

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Submarines Test Results and Further Steps

We would like to thank everyone who took part in the submarines test held on a separate server for the great number of battles played and detailed feedback. Today, we want to share the changes we plan to implement, and further steps. 

 

Changes to mechanics and gameplay:

Dive Capacity

Submarines of all tiers will now slowly regain Dive Capacity while surfaced. This will make combat more diverse for the new class. However, full depletion of Dive Capacity will still significantly influence a sub's survivability.

 

Sonar ping, crosshair, and torpedoes

To make sonar ping usage more comfortable, its speed has been increased. This will make interaction with maneuverable targets — cruisers and destroyers — easier.

A dynamic crosshair has been added so that leading targets with sonar ping at different ranges is easier.

To balance the interaction of subs with different classes we've reduced the chance of a submarine's torpedoes causing flooding and critically damaging modules. The guidance of their torpedoes has also been improved against other submarines and worsened against battleships.

 

Depth and detectability

We are planning to keep the choice of several depth levels instead of allowing meter-by-meter adjustments, as it gives all the necessary states for submarine gameplay-wise and does not create unnecessary complications in controls.

We increased the diving rudder's shift speed to make control of submarines more responsive.

We want the gameplay difference between subs and destroyers to be more pronounced, so submarines' detectability at periscope and operational depths will be reduced. Surface ships will be detected by submarines from the same range as from planes. Therefore, reconnaissance will not be the main task for subs.

If a submarine is at operational or extreme depth, its Hydrophone will detect enemy subs at these same depths. Paired with improved torpedo guidance, this will enhance sub vs sub combat.

 

Fighting against submarines 

Changes to anti-submarine warfare (ASW) tools will make interactions more convenient for both sides. 

  • Surface ships' depth charges will sink slower, so submarines will have more time to maneuver and possibly reduce incoming damage;
  • It will be easier to hit submarines with the ASW plane attack, and their depth charges will deal more damage;
  • It will be easier to hit submarines with shells at periscope depth;
  • AP shells will have a small explosion area dealing damage to submarines. HE and SAP shells still will be more effective against subs than AP;
  • Some ships won't have depth charges or ASW planes. Much like with other existing tools such as Hydroacoustic search or Main Battery Reload Booster, some features are exclusive to certain ships. Ships without ASW armament will be able to confront submarines thanks to the depletion of their Dive Capacity or in close work with allies that do have ASW tools.

 

Matchmaking

One of the most discussed submarine-related topics is their influence on matchmaking and the number of ships engaged in artillery combat. One of the frequent suggestions is to increase the size of teams from 12 to, for example, 15.

We don't plan to increase the size of teams in the main type of battle - Random battles:

  • The balance is built around the interaction of a certain number of ships. Changing it would lead to a need to completely reconfigure all ships in the game;
  • All maps and modes suited for 12 ships per team would have to likewise be changed;
  • The more ships in there are in a battle, the less influence on the outcome each of them has. We find the influence of individual ships in the "12 vs 12" format to be optimal for Random battles.

Regardless, we also understand that the matchmaker may need changes with the addition of submarines, and now we're considering additional limitations affecting multiple classes together, for example both submarines and destroyers, or destroyers, submarines and aircraft carriers. E.g. no more than 5 destroyers and submarines combined. At the same time, limits on each class will remain.

 

Other changes

We continue to work on other game elements related to the new class:

  • Updating balance settings;
  • Working on skills, upgrades, consumables;
  • Work on the underwater world is ongoing — more and more maps are slowly but surely becoming ready for submarines;
  • Working on the interface. In future, we'll consider adding a visual representation of a submarine's torpedo launch sector and spread cone while it is submerged. 

 

Further steps

Submarines have been through 6 open tests since their announcement in 2019, and a great number of internal and closed ones. However, testing on a separate server or in a special type of battle can't provide the same amount of data as testing in Random Battles does. We don't want to add submarines directly to the main type of battle, but at the same time, a new class requires a prolonged trial by a wide and stable audience. Ranked battles is a suitable type of battle for such a check, as the most similar to Random battles. 

That's why a special season of Ranked battles will start in 0.10.7 which will allow taking part in submarines. They will be available for rent freely from random bundles. Such a distribution method will help to control the number of new class ships and avoid very long queues.

Besides Ranked battles, submarines will be able to enter Cooperative Battles to be tried in more calm surroundings.

The special Ranked season will last for 11 weeks, will be similar in structure to the 3rd season. It will allow players to get to know subs much better than they would during a short test and at the same time provide us with a large amount of feedback and data. During this check and following its results, we will continue to make changes, including to balance. Details about the season and how to get submarines will be published closer to the start of the event, and the closest opportunity to try out a new class with the previously-mentioned changes will be the 0.10.7 Public Test. 

 

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary. Announced adjustments and features may change multiple times during testing. The final information will be published on our game's website.


Links:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/169

Edited by S0und_Theif
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2 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

Besides Ranked battles, submarines will be able to enter Cooperative Battles to be tried in more calm surroundings.

Took a damn long time to make this decision :fish_palm:

Coop is the best mode to test the bad and the most broken thing

Coop_battle_wows.png Nambur wan

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2 minutes ago, Manacetamol said:

Took a damn long time to make this decision :fish_palm:

Coop is the best mode to test the bad and the most broken thing

Coop_battle_wows.png Nambur wan

yes.gif.00342e2c0401ea1aaa23fb0fb282992e.gif

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No, Please don't add submarine!!!!!!!

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6 minutes ago, WorIdofWarsheeps said:

No, Please don't add submarine!!!!!!!

 

LewdLick.gif

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Just like CV rework, all it really matter is to made Sub play easier and comfortable , and in plain and simple English, there really is not much surface ships can do to counter , a lot is said to made dive easier, sub less detectable, ping and aim easier etc etc for sub, where is that allowing surface ships to sink the sub and depth charge them easier. Its already a issue before this latest round of test, and WG is saying they are to made that even harder !!! am I missing something here

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Don't add them to Co-op.....

tenor.gif?itemid=16328372

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Ok... I haven't been paying super close attention, but the dive mechanics...

In first test, they had air tank and could regain small amount of air while surfaced.

Then it was changed to battery, quickly recharging when surfaced

Then a whole lot of variations.

Then they couldn't refill their dive capability at all.

And now they have a set amount, but can regain a small amount of air while surfaced...

Have they just gone in a big circle?

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18 minutes ago, LtDan_IceCream said:

Don't add them to Co-op.....

tenor.gif?itemid=16328372

 

S (3).jpg

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3 minutes ago, Manacetamol said:

 

S (3).jpg

tenor.gif?itemid=14293457

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Random battle currently are the most rotten battle mode on WoWs, why don't just include submarine on them? :Smile_hiding:

Are they afraid that BBabies will cry louder? :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by Sharr_Dextera
I mean... Camper loving BBabies....
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3 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

 

  • Some ships won't have depth charges or ASW planes. Much like with other existing tools such as Hydroacoustic search or Main Battery Reload Booster, some features are exclusive to certain ships. Ships without ASW armament will be able to confront submarines thanks to the depletion of their Dive Capacity or in close work with allies that do have ASW tools.

 

This is the only part that concerns me.  Not only be unable to detect them (which is ok) , but unable to do anything about it when they know where they are.   Have to wait until the Subs dive capacity is depleted, or you get a belly full of torpedoes

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4 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Some ships won't have depth charges or ASW planes. Much like with other existing tools such as Hydroacoustic search or Main Battery Reload Booster, some features are exclusive to certain ships. Ships without ASW armament will be able to confront submarines thanks to the depletion of their Dive Capacity or in close work with allies that do have ASW tools.

I don't like this.

One issue I had with earlier public test was that unless you had ASW capability you had no way of helping a teammate counter a sub.

Often I will playing a BB and there would be a sub vs sub duel underwater but I am totally unable to help the friendly sub. I might as well not even be there. WG say they want to encourage teamwork yet they practically don't allow you to help your teammate.

2 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Ok... I haven't been paying super close attention, but the dive mechanics...

In first test, they had air tank and could regain small amount of air while surfaced.

Then it was changed to battery, quickly recharging when surfaced

Then a whole lot of variations.

Then they couldn't refill their dive capability at all.

And now they have a set amount, but can regain a small amount of air while surfaced...

Have they just gone in a big circle?

Also the dive levels. In the very first iteration of subs (the Halloween event), they had fixed dive levels. Then they allowed unrestricted dive levels for a few iterations and now they are back to fixed dive levels.

This back-and-forth worries me because it feels like WG haven't nailed down the core gameplay mechanics of subs yet. Looks like they are having trouble trying to find a niche for subs to fill.

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1 hour ago, Thyaliad said:

.....

This back-and-forth worries me because it feels like WG haven't nailed down the core gameplay mechanics of subs yet. Looks like they are having trouble trying to find a niche for subs to fill.

Maybe they just feels like being betrayed by some spreadsheets data?

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6 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Have they just gone in a big circle?

More like a slowly converging spiral.  For a change like this, slow is a good thing

The shift to enabling slow recovery of dive capacity whilst surfaced is sensible, the balancing lever is the rate at which this occurs.  I expect that is where we will see future shifts now the base mechanic has been established.

That not all surface ships will have ASW capabilities raises some challenges for players, but is not unheard of between the existing ship types, some CL’s are very limited in their ability to hurt BBs, some ships have very limited AA, Radar is unequally spread...  It is all part of the variety that makes the game interesting and challenging. However, probably means I am going to need to do a better job of protecting my team mates when I am playing anti-submarine DDs or cruisers :-(...

Anyway, time will reveal all...

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6 hours ago, Sharr_Dextera said:

Random battle currently are the most rotten battle mode on WoWs, why don't just include submarine on them? :Smile_hiding:

Are they afraid that BBabies will cry louder? :Smile_teethhappy:

Some of us think of Ranked in that manner, Randoms at least is more dynamic and is less repetitive at tiers other than 10.

IMO of course.

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5 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

Some of us think of Ranked in that manner, Randoms at least is more dynamic and is less repetitive at tiers other than 10.

IMO of course.

Agreed with you, sir.  In my opinion, they should put submarine in random battle first. Maybe it is too difficult to balance, but I hope some how they can do it properly. Or can't they?

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2 hours ago, Sharr_Dextera said:

Agreed with you, sir.  In my opinion, they should put submarine in random battle first. Maybe it is too difficult to balance, but I hope some how they can do it properly. Or can't they?

Yeah agreed...

But I understand their logic.

Ranked is easier for them to define strict rules or change parameters.

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I am glad they fixed dive levels, at least sub on sub battles you can torpedo each other, as torpedo's then work like they do the surface.  When you had variable dive levels you could dodge torpedos easily by just dipping or diving a fraction, it made it impossible unless enemy sub went afk or was distracted.  If you were the last 2 vessels it was silly, you one trying to ram to just end the match.

I want to see if you can still dodge depth charges by surfacing briefly as well.

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I don't know. I think I like these ideas. Although I think that co-op is not the best place because it is pretty much a yolo rush. But on the plus side it's a chance to play around in them without worrying too much. And it gives a chance to learn ASW warfare as well.

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Will subs have rockets and armour piercing bombs?

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43 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Will subs have rockets and armour piercing bombs?

Will subs have planes?

Spoiler

And gravity cannons?

 

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