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HoChunHao

WarGaming "indirectly" admitting playerbase has no situational awareness? Also some feedback

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POINT 1,
So, what do I mean by "WG indirectly admitting the playerbase has no situational awarness?". I guess at this point, some of you may have known about it. If not, let me show you this, (Quite an old one)
image.thumb.png.232666cf9528c920ad447ea77adca9ad.png
Do mind, this was on the Official Site. This is them simply admitting indirectly or directly that the playerbase is not capable of multitasking, not even the slightest bit. Apparently pressing "R" is a little too much to ask for from a CV player when they are flying their squadron so it has to be automated for them. But why am I bringing this stuff up again?, now here we begin.

As you guys know 3 days ago, update 0.10.5 was released with changes being made to CV Rocket Strikes, a nerf I'll say to give ships like use DD players like myself a better life from being constantly oppressed by a CV player.
Players like me as with many others are filled with joy, while some others are not "CV UNPLAYABLE NOW". But I'll stay away from that, I need more salt from their tears.

image.png.9582237469b2649625e3a9a05983a908.png

If you have been playing recently, you should notice something like this "You are under a rocket strike" or something similar along those lines when a CV is coming to strike you with rockets. Now here rises the question, Is that actually needed? Or is WG indirectly/directly admitting that the playerbase is NOT capable of any form of situational awareness that their ship is under a CV strike? Nerf is not enough, machine gun firing telling you where the rockets will hit is not enough (its a visual cue mind you, no idea how it could be missed) that they literally had to implement "this" to inform the playerbase that they are under a rocket strike.

At this point, can we blame WG for making the playerbase dumber and dumber? When all I see now is them spoonfeeding them with changes like this? To cater to the newbs. Yes, I get it, it is just so to make the game more accessible and playable to the average playerbase but what you are doing now is spoonfeeding their pepeganess and making it worse.

POINT 2,
Teamkilling damage removed. That is a mixed feeling for me. Why? No more time extensions by killing DIV mates. :<
On the bright side, this is a very welcomed change. One should not be punished by someone's carelessness and loosing HP that you actually need. No more salted players killing CVs/DDs for not playing how said TKer wants them to, or out of pure salt (Killed them last game, time to TK them now).

  1. But there are some problems that popped into my mind. As now players don't get team damaged from friendly torps, a player might intentionally run into friendly torps griefing the torper basically griefing them, and who knows, if the torp were not purposedfully griefed, it could have banged someone which might result in the game's victory? (Small chance I know, but you get the point).
  2. Also, where is the warning from incoming team torps? Yes, I get it, since you do not take team damage now, there is no need for warnings for incoming friendly torps.
    But here is the situation, I was in a game last night with a DIV mate that launched torps (I didnt know he did or know it was coming), until he pointed it out via comms. Obviously as a decent player myself, I would do my best to avoid those torps (DIV or not, does not matter) as 1) I do not want to intentionally eat it and yeah know, maybe get them pink? and 2) Who knows that torp I took could have hit someone and made my life easier? (Was in a DD myself and any dmg done to the enemy helps).
    So what I am saying is, why not add an option where we can toggle to enable warnings of incoming friendly torps?

 

Edited by HoChunHao
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we knew wegee thought the player base was stupid when they removed RTS CV. RTS CV requires starcraft level (aka Korean level) handling.

Examples today of no situational awareness: my team's kita suicidally challenging an enemy dd instead of waiting for me to back him up in my gearing. Read the minimap and see help is on the way!

Edited by dejiko_nyo
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first.... please do notice that SEA player is relatively superior than western counterpart. the think that you think easy can be really hassle for them. 

second.... some of WoWs player is either old gramps or just casual dude after working like me who seeking fun

third.... the moment they introduce T7 Belfast and T7 Saipan, this game lose its competitive aspect as fair game.

fourth.... noob casual player usually spend more monies to weight their skill. giving them more spoon feeding info could increase their awareness

fifth.... LACK OF TUTORIAL, combined with very loooooong learning curve. this change might help newbie player as well

 

you are unicum, the "thing" that you consider easy maybe extremely confusing for other casual player.

i am suspect you must be young dude that still have a lot of reflex compared to old gramps with slow response :v

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Maybe, they just made a change that comfort ignorance players, meanwhile aware and cautious player got annoyed in the process.

Rocket warning pop-up are annoyed me. When I aimed, suddenly the warning popping out, averting my attention from crosshair, and then delayed gun trigger  clicking about 1-2 second in process.

I'm sailing on Cruiser, which the rocket attacks doesn't matter at all. And yet the popping out message feels so annoying.

Edited by Sharr_Dextera

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13 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

we knew wegee thought the player base was stupid when they removed RTS CV. RTS CV requires starcraft level (aka Korean level) handling.

Examples today of no situational awareness: my team's kita suicidally challenging an enemy dd instead of waiting for me to back him up in my gearing. Read the minimap and see help is on the way!

Not to mention the amount of pepega players in "Special" ships, cause of the coupon reset.

Damm they are attrocious, but on the bright side, the are bringing the standards down.

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Not using the mini-map is like not using your side mirrors and / or rear view mirror.

Prone to accedent. In the game, prone to being killed easily.

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3 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

Not using the mini-map is like not using your side mirrors and / or rear view mirror.

Prone to accedent. In the game, prone to being killed easily.

image.thumb.png.b54fa0033325af99483516d042d16222.png

The monitor the AVG playerbase uses you mean?

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We already know that WG think players are stupid. Granted, Some players are... but many, if not most, aren’t (completely...).

The funny thing is that Ise and Tone’s consumables are still manual... It’s ridiculous to think that players cannot manage their own consumables on the CV. Some of those players previously managed 8 squadrons AND the ship.

I understand for the first patch  or so giving a notification of a new mechanic, but after that, it really only needs to happen to new players.

Regarding friendly fire. I think the minimum times you hit someone per battle is 40 per battle. So with torpedos, turning pink accidentally is going to be impossible.

I do worry about the torpedo warning being taken for exactly the reason you state. If you don’t know torps are coming, you can’t get out of the way of friendly torps, meaning you may stop those torps from hitting enemy.

One thing WG should implement, team does not lose points for ally getting killed by damage reflection.

In a Yuro vid I was watching yesterday was a clip of a ship dropping torpedos, hitting an ally, ally survives, but the ship who dropped the torpedos dies due to damage reflection. There were seconds left of the game, the points flip caused the team to lose. Because the system punished the player.

Now, team damage may not still be a thing, and pink ships may be rarer, but I believe that damage is still reflected back if you are pink. WG should make sure team is not punished due to one careless player.

 

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2 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Regarding friendly fire. I think the minimum times you hit someone per battle is 40 per battle. So with torpedos, turning pink accidentally is going to be impossible.

I just realize something, Kitakami have 40 torpedoes.

I guess WG does not want to make her DW torpedoes to solve the TK issue.

And the anti-TK / player is incapable is porbably a cover-up reason for the release of Kitakami(?).

:fish_book:

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33 minutes ago, LeoN1das said:

Since when playerbases has awareness?

^ This. 

1) Players does not have map awareness (i.e. does not know when to attack or defend)

2) Players (most) lemming to one side and does not create cross-fire situations for enemy, causing one side to collapse instead of delaying that flank. 

3) same as #1, Players does not know when to re-locate a position. (i.e. always sitting at one position aka. Sitting Duck) 

4) Players unaware of score timer (aka. amount of time remaining to reach 1000 points) 

Wargaming has endlessly promoting ships and events and does not seem to educate the playerbase. King of the Seas was a great opportunity and can use visuals to high-light / replay some good plays by players, but we don't see that. 

Hell, I have to watch CC's youtube videos to not be a complete noob (thank the gods there is Flamu, Flambass, Notser, Overlordbou and many other good community contributors that have tutorial videos!!)

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1) we're on the internet, Crying things are too hard (indirectly or not) is par for the course, about anything.

2) Not restricted to WoWs. You can find it occuring in pretty much every team based title out there that doesn't have a pro competitive image to keep up.

3) Devs (or their marketing and accounting overlords at least) seem to think it's the ONLY way to increase playerbases. Most likely due to 1

Edited by Ralgon

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Judging from their performance in game, I think it is safe to say that yes, most players are indeed unable to multi-task or have situational awareness. When I play CVs I see so many people sailing in a perfectly straight line, completely unaware of my presence until my torps slam into their hulls. Many times too there will be a low health enemy popping up broadside in full view of a teammate, but said teammate will continue shooting at some angled BB in front of them.

2 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Not using the mini-map is like not using your side mirrors and / or rear view mirror.

Prone to accedent. In the game, prone to being killed easily.

I have seen some players post screenshots in which their minimaps are absolutely tiny, even worse if they are playing on those 4k super ultra widescreen monitors. You can't see anything. I suspect they don't actually use their minimap. As somebody who grew up playing RTS like Starcraft and C&C, glancing at the minimap every few seconds or so is a natural habit for me. It boggles my mind how other people can even play the game without using the minimap. It is such a useful tool.

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Lack of SA is evident, my personal favourite is CV players that do not relocate if they’re on the non lemming flank. They don’t move until they’re spotted.

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I wasn't aware of this.

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20210620162322_1.thumb.jpg.5777f751a8ccbc37341d249bf64d3bda.jpg

IK, that i might just newcomer from 2018 but seriously. Not meant to be arrogant, I DIDN'T WATCH YOUTUBE TUTORIAL FROM 2018-MID 2020.

IMO, this is the reason why WG seems doesn't want to educate it's player, such as:

1. Time is precious

2. "Why we need to educated them, while we can use that time to introduce new ships and mechanics."

3. We already upload the essentials mechanic in youtube, but not lot's player dig deeper to learn it.

4. It's better for us updating upcoming event/ships than educated player.

It's make me puzzled while sometimes in high tier looking like the situation above, and sometimes thinking like "How tf this guy can reach T10 with knowledge like T5 gameplay" . I REPEAT, I DON'T MAKE FUN OF OTHER PLAYER OR ANYONE.

ofc, make division will make the MM easier or at least div's mate will teach him/her little by little. I self-taught at that time, not easy to learn the mechanic since this game based on RNG and number matter.

For future player who reads my comment, here some of my tips to have at least some awareness:

1. Pay attention to the minimaps.

2. Don't be like egoist person, help your team who willing to win.

3. It you meet with someone in your team doesn't have willing to win, leave him. He just gonna be burden for you and your team.

4. Do your roles.

5. Keep predict the enemy movements.

6. Know your ships much deeper.

7. Never skipping a tier.

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I have yet to test this. But what if you accidentally ram into your allies? I have never seen any "friendly" ramming since the new rules hit the live server.

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21 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

The funny thing is that Ise and Tone’s consumables are still manual... It’s ridiculous to think that players cannot manage their own consumables on the CV. Some of those players previously managed 8 squadrons AND the ship.

Old players and new players, huge gap I'll have to say (from what I saw). And not gonna blame WG for making such assumptions TBH. Look at the players sailing broadsiding and getting shot at multiple times and still not reach. Next thing we are gonna get is "You are presenting a broadside and you are being shot at, advised to angle". But thats how it is now apparently.

21 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Regarding friendly fire. I think the minimum times you hit someone per battle is 40 per battle. So with torpedos, turning pink accidentally is going to be impossible.

Just something I had to point out KEK, I do know it wouldnt matter much. my only hope is that the warning of 40 would vary depending on type of armanent. 40 for shells, 10 for torps? Who knows. But again, this might just complicate things even for the "good" playerbase. I could sense some few players where they would intentionally run into torps to grief their friendlies.

21 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

I do worry about the torpedo warning being taken for exactly the reason you state. If you don’t know torps are coming, you can’t get out of the way of friendly torps, meaning you may stop those torps from hitting enemy.

Exaclty, this is happening far too often now especially when I am in a DD in the frontlines. I do notice it last minute and make last attempt movements to dodge, but at this point, I might as well eat it cause who knows my attempts to just dodge it might cost me.

21 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

One thing WG should implement, team does not lose points for ally getting killed by damage reflection.

In a Yuro vid I was watching yesterday was a clip of a ship dropping torpedos, hitting an ally, ally survives, but the ship who dropped the torpedos dies due to damage reflection. There were seconds left of the game, the points flip caused the team to lose. Because the system punished the player.

Ah yes, that pinkie Yoshino player that dropped torps only to have himself POP cause those torps hit a friendly. And Ill have to agree with that. If someone were to get themselves killed from TK damage reflection, team should not be punished for their carelessness. Ill also say WG is going quite easy on this TKing crap. The punishments etc. I just wish TKing is still a thing as in general, we would TK DIVmates for some "time extension"

21 hours ago, MrJJ_sniper said:

^ This. 

1) Players does not have map awareness (i.e. does not know when to attack or defend)

2) Players (most) lemming to one side and does not create cross-fire situations for enemy, causing one side to collapse instead of delaying that flank. 

3) same as #1, Players does not know when to re-locate a position. (i.e. always sitting at one position aka. Sitting Duck) 

4) Players unaware of score timer (aka. amount of time remaining to reach 1000 points) 

Wargaming has endlessly promoting ships and events and does not seem to educate the playerbase. King of the Seas was a great opportunity and can use visuals to high-light / replay some good plays by players, but we don't see that. 

Hell, I have to watch CC's youtube videos to not be a complete noob (thank the gods there is Flamu, Flambass, Notser, Overlordbou and many other good community contributors that have tutorial videos!!)

WG being WG, as a business. At this point, they should start promoting certain useful videos out there to help the playerbase. But I got to say some CC are questionable at times and would be informative until you reach a certain skill levelUsed to watch Notser, but no offence, new videos are ehhhh now. Don't recall myself watching any of his videos anymore in the past 3 months. At best is me watching Jingles, Flambass, iChase or some CC's video about newly released ships.

And referring back to players, they have all this forms of mentality. "Oh look, he is higher tier than me, I shall follow him all game", "Oh look, DD, I shall follow him all game to use his smoke" (We know this rarely happens), "Oh look, being shot at, enemy is coming in, time to kite at full flank speed". They don't seem to know the basics of slowing them down. And if a player is unable to make use of the minimap, goodluck having them learn something else.

19 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

I have seen some players post screenshots in which their minimaps are absolutely tiny, even worse if they are playing on those 4k super ultra widescreen monitors. You can't see anything. I suspect they don't actually use their minimap. As somebody who grew up playing RTS like Starcraft and C&C, glancing at the minimap every few seconds or so is a natural habit for me. It boggles my mind how other people can even play the game without using the minimap. It is such a useful tool.

I guess they came back with ∎∎∎∎∎∎∎ or a reason where they are using a 1440p monitor etc (Did happen before). Not sure if it was mentioned in the game to new players where they could use and - to change the size of their minimap.

16 hours ago, FG_Yomamamoto said:

Lack of SA is evident, my personal favourite is CV players that do not relocate if they’re on the non lemming flank. They don’t move until they’re spotted.

Ah yes, reminds me of a game where I managed to leak through mid after seeing an oppurtunity. CV did start moving after he was spotted but it was too late. (Minimap render below),
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/844889577709240350/855483887853633566/iUqFyJPAS.mp4
image.thumb.png.e98d5ba22d4e4c80ee8ca7cd3d96681e.png

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1 hour ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

I have yet to test this. But what if you accidentally ram into your allies? I have never seen any "friendly" ramming since the new rules hit the live server.

0 damage.

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On 6/20/2021 at 3:19 AM, Thyaliad said:

I have seen some players post screenshots in which their minimaps are absolutely tiny, even worse if they are playing on those 4k super ultra widescreen monitors. You can't see anything. I suspect they don't actually use their minimap. As somebody who grew up playing RTS like Starcraft and C&C, glancing at the minimap every few seconds or so is a natural habit for me. It boggles my mind how other people can even play the game without using the minimap. It is such a useful tool.

Using mini map is 2nd nature to me. Probably learnt from RTS games as well. Not using it is like being blind. It just gives so much awareness of what it happening around you. I’ll even steer using it if kiting. Of course, I often crash into small islands that barely show up on minimap.

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12 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

0 damage.

No no no... I get the 0 damage. But what about the penalty? Would the rammer & the rammed get 0 credits & exp for damaging each other?

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57 minutes ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

No no no... I get the 0 damage. But what about the penalty? Would the rammer & the rammed get 0 credits & exp for damaging each other?

You want them to do the mating press? >_> <_<

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Oh boy... ... First up, really interesting subject, kudos!

On 6/20/2021 at 12:11 AM, HoChunHao said:

If you have been playing recently, you should notice something like this "You are under a rocket strike" or something similar along those lines when a CV is coming to strike you with rockets. Now here rises the question, Is that actually needed? Or is WG indirectly/directly admitting that the playerbase is NOT capable of any form of situational awareness that their ship is under a CV strike? Nerf is not enough, machine gun firing telling you where the rockets will hit is not enough (its a visual cue mind you, no idea how it could be missed) that they literally had to implement "this" to inform the playerbase that they are under a rocket strike.

At this point, can we blame WG for making the playerbase dumber and dumber? When all I see now is them spoonfeeding them with changes like this? To cater to the newbs. Yes, I get it, it is just so to make the game more accessible and playable to the average playerbase but what you are doing now is spoonfeeding their pepeganess and making it worse.

Is it actually needed?

Short answer... Yes.

Long answer, yes it should have been part of the progression system. Basically WoWS is really bad at giving you the information you need and educating you on how to play past basic point-and-click stuff.

Noobs shouldn't just be fed to the slaughter as they currently are.

Do you know how much work it is to even work out how to use your ship against planes? You basically need to rely on google, reddit and youtube. That's NOT how a game is supposed to work, it is supposed to teach you how to play as you play it.

Let's examine the basics of the plane thing...

AA - nope, not the counter despite what logic would say.

Planes - wait do I nose in to them or broadside? Broadside seems counter-intuitive as I get explodey when I do that to shells...

etc.

Not a go at you Ho, but I think you are coming at this thing from a skewed angle and have forgotten how rough learning even basic skills is, let alone intermediate stuff.

Situational Awareness is something everyone could do better, even great players don't see everything coming.

Positioning is tied to that, and positioning is DEFINITELY something the playerbase could use some education on.

I do think these types of warnings should be able to be turned off however, I don't need the UI telling me about rockets/torps at this stage in my WoWS lifecycle.

 

On 6/20/2021 at 12:11 AM, HoChunHao said:

So what I am saying is, why not add an option where we can toggle to enable warnings of incoming friendly torps?

This is one of those things I don't think should be togglable, and I like toggles, I like player-control of information. If anything I think allied torpedoes should always have been a different coloured indicator in the UI just so you know what type are torps are inbound.

 

End-state: WG should be implementing more things like this and working to improve how the game teaches you what to do and it's a net positive change, I just wish I could turn it off.

Edited by S4pp3R
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1 hour ago, S4pp3R said:

Is it actually needed?
Short answer... Yes.
Long answer, yes it should have been part of the progression system. Basically WoWS is really bad at giving you the information you need and educating you on how to play past basic point-and-click stuff.
Noobs shouldn't just be fed to the slaughter as they currently are.
Do you know how much work it is to even work out how to use your ship against planes? You basically need to rely on google, reddit and youtube. That's NOT how a game is supposed to work, it is supposed to teach you how to play as you play it.
Let's examine the basics of the plane thing...
AA - nope, not the counter despite what logic would say.
Planes - wait do I nose in to them or broadside? Broadside seems counter-intuitive as I get explodey when I do that to shells...etc.
Not a go at you Ho, but I think you are coming at this thing from a skewed angle and have forgotten how rough learning even basic skills is, let alone intermediate stuff.
Situational Awareness is something everyone could do better, even great players don't see everything coming.
Positioning is tied to that, and positioning is DEFINITELY something the playerbase could use some education on.
I do think these types of warnings should be able to be turned off however, I don't need the UI telling me about rockets/torps at this stage in my WoWS lifecycle.

Points well stated, well done actually. As some/most items you mentioned may have went over my head when this thread was made.

And yes, I do strongly agree when it comes to the utter lack of WG's information when it gives out to new players. But I do believe certain items can be toned down (wont matter much) like the repair stuffs for CVs. And yes since after you mentioned about the "Attack aircraft incoming", it is indeed good to assist and help with a player's situational awareness by warning them about something that may have flew over their heads. But only works until a certain point where overtime, if a player is aware that they are gonna get a text pop-up each time something is about to happen, then there is no need for them to have any form of situational awareness.

It's OK, this is not a go at me at all. This infact helps me to get a view in which I may have missed and/or never would have thought about. I do admit that when I started off which is on the game's release date, I was not well educated with the game mechanics and learned over time. (Understandable as its just released lol). But yeah, with the current state of the game, there shouldn't be an excuse from WG for their inability to educate the players in the basics. (Maybe it was implemented? Not too sure as I did not really make a new account to see it).

Yeah, when it comes to Situational Awareness, I do miss it on certain occassions in which I realised after my fuck up. Most of the time was because of my greed.
When it comes to positioning, there are many variables as it varies from game to game but there are those which are quite common and what to do and what not to. I am certain there are quite an amount of useful videos out there and WG should honestly promote them on their official sites in hopes to educate players.

And yeah, I have enough UI already in which I actually make full use of. The "Attack Aircraft Incoming" is pretty much useless for me.

1 hour ago, S4pp3R said:

This is one of those things I don't think should be togglable, and I like toggles, I like player-control of information. If anything I think allied torpedoes should always have been a different coloured indicator in the UI just so you know what type are torps are inbound.

End-state: WG should be implementing more things like this and working to improve how the game teaches you what to do and it's a net positive change, I just wish I could turn it off.

I am certain some players wouldn't want a "Beep Beep Beep" for incoming friendly torps as now they don't take damage from it. I am mainly referrring to the ingame audio cue for incoming friendly torps as prior to the change, you do get warning for incoming friendly torps. But now since they don't do damage, the audio cue is gone. I have been focussing alot more on DDs recently and on the front lines and I can't stress how often I would run into those torps (I do notice it at the last minute when I pan around).

An option to enable the audio cue for incoming friendly torps would be great. Don't wanna run into them on accident when who knows, there is a chance those torps might be able to bang something which can be beneficial for me.

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5 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

And yes, I do strongly agree when it comes to the utter lack of WG's information when it gives out to new players. But I do believe certain items can be toned down (wont matter much) like the repair stuffs for CVs. And yes since after you mentioned about the "Attack aircraft incoming", it is indeed good to assist and help with a player's situational awareness by warning them about something that may have flew over their heads. But only works until a certain point where overtime, if a player is aware that they are gonna get a text pop-up each time something is about to happen, then there is no need for them to have any form of situational awareness.

Yeah that's what I think too. So in an ideal world everyone would have seen these notifications till they reach a certain point in their player progression by which point they would have had other indicators/things that educate them how the planes attack, etc etc.

I'm semi-touching on this in an upcoming video (hopefully) on Scenarios... Basically my argument is how Scenarios should be supported, expanded and integrated properly into the player progression system.

They should be there to reinforce and teach good fundamental/intermediate skills.

We'll see if I get the script working (it's a few down the line atm).

WoWS lacks good education systems and it's unlikely that WG will implement any solid ones soon so why not expand and better integrate an existing mode that's perfect for it?

Anyways I digress.

5 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

It's OK, this is not a go at me at all. This infact helps me to get a view in which I may have missed and/or never would have thought about.

Yeah well tone isn't my strong point, I rarely mean things in a negative context but often they are assumed to be so, just wanted to be sure!

5 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

But yeah, with the current state of the game, there shouldn't be an excuse from WG for their inability to educate the players in the basics. (Maybe it was implemented? Not too sure as I did not really make a new account to see it).

99% sure they haven't, considering the sorts of questions that frequently get asked.

5 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

I am certain some players wouldn't want a "Beep Beep Beep" for incoming friendly torps as now they don't take damage from it. I am mainly referrring to the ingame audio cue for incoming friendly torps as prior to the change, you do get warning for incoming friendly torps. But now since they don't do damage, the audio cue is gone. I have been focussing alot more on DDs recently and on the front lines and I can't stress how often I would run into those torps (I do notice it at the last minute when I pan around).

An option to enable the audio cue for incoming friendly torps would be great. Don't wanna run into them on accident when who knows, there is a chance those torps might be able to bang something which can be beneficial for me.

That's a good point, I didn't even think of that.

Yeah I wasn't so much thinking about the beeps but the indicator that appears on screen... ... Change the HUD indicator colour or something was my thinking (for allied torps).

Yeah definitely want the audio cue.

Both would be even better.

Ah man...

This discussion gets me frustrated; WoWS has so much potential, even to this day... IMO WG spends so much time on pumping out new lines and such that they haven't spent enough time improving the core UX in positive ways.

They've made many changes but a lot of them have been barely positive or missed opportunities... ... ...

I like these sort of discussions, it helps keep my wits sharp, (or half of them... ... get it?) :Smile_trollface:

--- it was a play on 'half-wit'; don't worry I'll see myself out... :Smile_hiding:

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