Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
S0und_Theif

Some French Preliminary and Variant Ships

13 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,407
[-CAT-]
Member
2,788 posts
12,360 battles

Lorraine (Bretagne Class)

2 versions. Both only have 8 - 340 mm guns instead of the usual 10 - 340 mm guns that her sisters enjoy.
Midship turret is removed in favor of a float plane in 1939 and removed the float plane better AA in 1944.

1939

1115915602_Lorraine1939.thumb.png.9c9cf0d7dcbf06b1d37074320d303102.png

1944

593666012_Lorraine1944.thumb.png.880100dc0c6ba520665ed75f8a6bb89c.png

Best solution to implement both versions is to let her have two hulls. Like how WG implemented USN DD Monaghan.

Hull A (1939) will have spotter or fighter consumable (DFAA consumable will not be available)
Hull B (1944) will have DFAA consumable (spotter or fighter consumable will not be available).

If implement in T5, without MBRB.
If implement in T6, with MBRB. (50% or 75% MBRB = ????)

Maximum range is 19 km. Slightly better than T5 Bretagne.
Concealment is 15.3 km base. Same as the T5 Bretagne.


 

T6 Languedoc (Normandie Class)

Languedoc is a Normandie class preliminary design. Where they planned to build her with no midship turret, while keeping the 12 guns requirement intact.

Languedoc.thumb.png.d996f5bfe5bdffcc02b0d97337e6b3c6.png

Article:

The design staff presented three alternatives, all armed with a secondary armament of twenty 138.6 mm (5.5 in) guns in a new twin-gun casemate mounting. The first was a design with the same ten 340 mm guns as the Bretagnes, but with a top speed greater than 21 knots. The second was for a ship with a dozen 340 mm guns arranged in two quadruple-gun turrets fore and aft of the superstructure with superfiring twin-gun turrets and a speed of 20 knots. The last proposal was a ship that was armed with sixteen 305 mm (12 in) guns in four quadruple turrets and a speed of 20 knots.

Link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandie-class_battleship


 

Normandie with no midship gun variant. (Same concept as Lorraine)

Variant A
8 - 340 mm guns in AX configuration.
Variant B
8 - 340 mm guns in AB configuration.
Note: Dunkerque and Strasbourg has 330 mm and not 340 mm.

1939 = hull A (spotter / fighter) and 1944 = hull B (DFAA)

If implement in T6, without MBRB.
If implement in T7, with MBRB. (50% or 75% MBRB = ????)

Maximum range 19 km. Same as the T6 Normandie.
Concealment is 16.2 km base. Same as the T6 Normandie.


 

T5   16 gun 305 mm BB. 🔥

No photo sadly.
But if we will follow French design, it's going to be either the Lyon (AQXY) configuration or Tourville (ABXY) configuration.

Article:

The design staff presented three alternatives, all armed with a secondary armament of twenty 138.6 mm (5.5 in) guns in a new twin-gun casemate mounting. The first was a design with the same ten 340 mm guns as the Bretagnes, but with a top speed greater than 21 knots. The second was for a ship with a dozen 340 mm guns arranged in two quadruple-gun turrets fore and aft of the superstructure with superfiring twin-gun turrets and a speed of 20 knots. The last proposal was a ship that was armed with sixteen 305 mm (12 in) guns in four quadruple turrets and a speed of 20 knots.

Link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandie-class_battleship


 

T7 Tourville and Lille (Lyon Class)

Both Tourville and Lille is basically Lyon class but instead of a midship turret, the turret is now moved forward, superfiring A turret and the superstructure moved a bit backward where the midship turret was placed.

Tourville.png.136db2fa2c279816680aa618877b2f8c.png

Tourville will have 16 - 340 mm guns in quad mounts.
Lille will have 8 - 380 mm guns in twin mounts.

Article:

One of the main considerations for the new design was the armament to be carried. The French were aware that the latest British battleships (the Queen Elizabeth class) were to be armed with 381 mm (15 in) guns, prompting significant consideration of matching this caliber for the Lyon design. The design staff prepared four variants, two armed with the standard French 340 mm gun in twin or quadruple gun turrets, and two armed with 380 mm guns in twin turrets.

Link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon-class_battleship


 

T9 & T10 305 mm and T9 380 mm / 406 mm Large Cruisers (Dunkerque preliminary Design)

When the French was designing a cruiser to counter the Italian (and later on the Germans), the French drafted a 305 mm cruiser with 8 guns (later on 12 - 305 mm guns and 6 - 380 mm and 406 mm variant when they saw the German panzerschiff).
Ultimately these designs were upscaled to become the T6 Dunkerque and T7 Strasbourg.

T9 8 - 305 mm Large Cruiser
Note: The T9 305 mm with AX configuration is also possible. (Just like Richelieu and Gascogne)

40232169_T9LargeCruiser.thumb.png.12f63d72c423ec6f4a996d5eae943add.png

T10 12 - 305 mm Large Cruiser

662657676_T10LargeCruiser.thumb.png.90f820f0c4f834050422bbb60329e121.png

T9 6 - 380 mm / 6 - 406 mm (French Siegfried)
Note: 406 mm can be a switchable armament like Lion / FDG.

208381893_T9SuperCruiser.thumb.png.be78d523c43026985d7fe230ba965145.png

Note: Secondary guns and location may vary.
Note: Superstructure can either be Dunkerque type or Richelieu / Alsace type. As Suffren type superstructure is considered outdated.
Note: If we are going to follow Dunkerque's naming convention (they are basically Dunkerque preliminary), then these ships may be named after French Cities. :fish_book:

Consumables:
R - Damage Control
T - Hydro or DFAA
U - French Speed Boost (20%) or Fighter or Spotter
Y - Heal
I - MBRB (50%)

Fire:
Also follows other Large Cruisers in the game. 60 seconds base.

 

Article: (Quite long since it covers 3 ships)

In 1926, the Chief of the Naval General Staff, Admiral Henri Salaun, requested a new capital ship design with a displacement of 17,500 long tons (17,800 t), intended to counter the new generation of Italian heavy cruisers. The first of these Italian vessels, the two Trento-class cruisers, were fast and posed a considerable threat to French shipping in the western Mediterranean between metropolitan France and its colonies in French North Africa. The new French vessel would be armed with a battery of eight 305 mm (12 in) guns mounted in two quadruple gun turrets, both arranged forward, since the French envisioned using the ships to chase down the Italian cruisers. The ships would have been armored to resist the 203 mm (8 in) guns of the Italian cruisers, and since the guns were concentrated forward, the amount of armor necessary to protect the ship's vitals allowed significant savings in weight. For the prescribed displacement, four such vessels could be built in the allotted 70,000 tons. The concept was strongly influenced by the British Nelson-class battleships, which mounted their battery entirely forward to save armor weight.
Illustration of the 36,000-ton design

The German Deutschland-class cruisers, which were armed with a battery of six 283 mm guns, coupled with hesitance on the French Navy's part to commit to small capital ships while Italy still kept its allotted tonnage uncommitted led the French to abandon the 17,500-ton project. New design studies were prepared in 1926–1927, resulting in several proposals in 1928 for a 36,000-long-ton (37,000 t) design. These ships were in most respects an enlarged version of the Suffren class of heavy cruisers then being built. The increase in displacement brought with it a third quadruple 305 mm turret placed aft and heavier armor protection in a version capable of 33 knots (61 km/h; 38 mph), while a slower 27-knot (50 km/h; 31 mph) ship was to be armed with six 406 mm (16 in) guns in twin turrets. Shortages of funding, both for the ships themselves and the necessary improvements to shipyards and harbor facilities to build and operate the vessels ended the proposals. Additionally, political concerns, particularly French efforts to lead disarmament talks in the League of Nations, convinced the French government to delay the construction of any new battleships.

Link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkerque-class_battleship


 

T10 Super Alsace

A rival to the Italian Battleship C. Colombus.

1499914123_SuperAlsace.thumb.png.6a4b39de7e382a4bd47d673c64e4f084.png

Variant A will have 16 - 380 mm guns.
Variant B will have 12 - 406 mm guns.

Note: 152 mm wing secondary guns (P and S turret) can be triple 152 mm. The double version of 152 mm will go to a future T10 French CL split.

Note: Alsace class naming convention is based on provinces of France. Super Alsace will follow this trend.

Some few names such as:
Maine
Orleans
Dauphine
Metz
Foix
Brittany
Nice
Paris

 


 

Other Variants:


406 mm Richelieu and Jean Bart variant

Instead of 8 - 380 mm They will be armed with 6 - 406 mm.

Armor, gimmicks, tiering, range, and concealment are the same.

T8  6 - 406 mm Richelieu sigma of 2.0 (+0.2 from Richelieu's 1.8) due to fewer guns.
T9  6 - 406 mm Jean Bart sigma of 2.0 (+0.1 from Jean Bart's 1.9) due to fewer guns.

 

Originally the french wanted 8 - 406 mm guns. But that would go over the 35,000 tons limit imposed by the Washington Treaty. If France ignored the Treaty, they would have been built.
They are going to be wider and heavier. Thus having a higher health pool. So uptiering them by 1 tier.

T9  8 - 406 mm Richelieu sigma of 1.9 (+0.1 from Richelieu's 1.8).
T10  8 - 406 mm Jean Bart sigma of 2.0 (+0.1 from Jean Bart's 1.9).

 

Note: Sigma needs testing and apply buff / nerf

 

Article:

The French naval command issued specifications for a new battleship design in response to the Littorios on 24 July, less than two weeks after the Italian ships were announced. The new ships would be built to the maximum Washington limits: 35,000 tons displacement and a battery of eight guns of either 380 mm or 406 mm.

Initial studies by the design staff quickly demonstrated that a battery of 406 mm guns would be impossible if the other characteristics would be fulfilled within the allotted displacement.

 

Link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richelieu-class_battleship


 

406 mm Alsace and Burgogne variant

Instead of 12 - 380 mm They will be armed with 9 - 406 mm.

Armor, gimmicks, tiering, range, and concealment are the same.

406 Alsace sigma of 1.8 (+0.2 from Alsace) due to fewer guns.
406 Burgogne sigma of 1.9 (+0.1 from Burgoge) due to fewer guns.

 

Note: Sigma needs testing and apply buff / nerf

Note: Alsace class naming convention is based on provinces of France.

 

Article:

The first proposal for Alsace, No. 1 (T8 Flandre), was essentially a slightly enlarged version of Project C. The ship had a longer hull, which required a 15,000 shaft horsepower (11,000 kW) increase in horsepower while incurring a loss of one knot in top speed.
No. 2 was a scaled up version of No. 1, with the 380 mm guns replaced with 406 mm guns. The even larger hull necessitated a further increase in horsepower by 20,000 shp (15,000 kW) to maintain the same speed.
The No. 3 type (T9 Alsace) was enlarged further to accommodate three quadruple 380 mm turrets, though it managed to increase speed by a knot.

All of the designs would have carried a light anti-aircraft battery of 37 mm (1.5 in) and 25 mm (0.98 in) guns, but the numbers and arrangements of those guns had not been finalized before the program came to an end.

 

Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-class_battleship


 

451 mm Republique variant

Instead of 8 - 431 mm They will be armed with 6 - 451 mm.

Armor, gimmicks, tiering, range, and concealment are the same.

Sigma 2.1 (+0.1 from Republique) due to fewer guns.

 

Note: Sigma needs testing and apply buff / nerf


 

An Republique with AB turret configuration. (I'm gonna call her Libertie [the 8 -  431 mm in AB configuration])

Also has both 8 - 431 mm and 6 - 451 mm versions.

431 mm will have 2.0 sigma (based on Republique) and 451 mm will have 2.1 sigma (based on Republique variant)


 

A Dunkerque and Strasbourg  variant with AX turret configuration. (Like Richelieu and Gascogne.)

Gimmicks and tiering, are the same.

Range and concealmen subject for testing.


 

T10 Colbert but with 139 mm / 50 guns instead of 127 mm / 54 guns and can not fire in the air (No AA capability).
139 mm guns are the same guns as found on the Kleber.

Consumables: (Instead of DFAA, she will get MBRB. It will be a difficult choice.)
R - Damage Contrl
T - MBRB (50%) or Hydro
Y - French Speed Boost (20%)
U - Repair Party


 

Note: I am not sure if sigma is up to date. I only based it on the wiki.

Link:

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_and_Aiming

 


Thoughts?

Edited by S0und_Theif
Adding Super Alsace and an alternate Colbert with 139 mm guns.
  • Cool 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
775
[LBAS]
Member
3,187 posts
15,270 battles

As said, with the French Carriers are coming, most notably there will be an Alsace Reconfigured to be a Carrier.

 

Would be funny if France gets the skip plane tactic?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,407
[-CAT-]
Member
2,788 posts
12,360 battles
13 minutes ago, IJN_Katori said:

Would be funny if France gets the skip plane tactic?

I hope not.

The French never used "boing - boing" bombing.

 

I would like the Soviet CV get the "boing - boing" bombing rather than the French.

Since they used it during the war.

 

The Soviets used lend-leased A-20 Havocs and P-40 Tomahawks as well as Il-2 Sturmoviks (also used for air defence suppression). Skip bombers were often used by aviation of the Soviet Northern Fleet in combination with torpedo bombers (usually the same A-20 aircraft, skip bombers and torpedo bombers operated in pairs). Skip bombers were called "topmachtoviks" (топмачтовики) in Russian, because they were flying "at the level of ship mast tops".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
775
[LBAS]
Member
3,187 posts
15,270 battles
15 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

I hope not.

The French never used "boing - boing" bombing.

 

I would like the Soviet CV get the "boing - boing" bombing rather than the French.

Since they used it during the war.

 

The Soviets used lend-leased A-20 Havocs and P-40 Tomahawks as well as Il-2 Sturmoviks (also used for air defence suppression). Skip bombers were often used by aviation of the Soviet Northern Fleet in combination with torpedo bombers (usually the same A-20 aircraft, skip bombers and torpedo bombers operated in pairs). Skip bombers were called "topmachtoviks" (топмачтовики) in Russian, because they were flying "at the level of ship mast tops".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_bombing

neverheard of the soviets since 1993 :Smile_trollface:

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
783
[LBAS]
Member
5,100 posts
11,359 battles

I would like to see Alsace with 16inch guns

Edited by THAI_THIEF
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
119 posts
430 battles

Not to be a nitpick, but Brittany is how the English pronounce Bretagne. The French would be mad at that choice because it butchers something belongs to them.:Smile_trollface:

The name could work for a British ship instead. But even then.... The British never have any claim on that territory, aside from the fact it housed the exiled Britons when the Anglo Saxons conquered England.

Provence could work if WG has no plan to release the real one.

Edited by Admiral_Helena
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,787
Member
5,169 posts
9,121 battles
2 minutes ago, Admiral_Helena said:

Not to be a nitpick, but Brittany is how the English pronounce Bretagne. The French would be mad at that choice because it butchers something belongs to them.:Smile_trollface:

Alsace-Lorraine Elsaß-Lothringen belongs to Germany! Just like Skyrim belongs to the Nords!

 

9 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

T9 6 - 380 mm / 6 - 406 mm (French Siegfried)

N O

 

9 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

An Republique with AB turret configuration. (I'm gonna call her Libertie [the 8 -  431 mm in AB configuration])

*Liberté

 

9 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Languedoc is a Normandie class preliminary design. Where they planned to build her with no midship turret, while keeping the 12 guns requirement intact.

Good suggestion. I hate turrets amidship.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
119 posts
430 battles
14 minutes ago, Paladinum said:

Alsace-Lorraine Elsaß-Lothringen belongs to Germany! Just like Skyrim belongs to the Nords!

 

Ironically that also means Strasbourg belongs to Germany.

After the 5th century, the city became known by a completely different name Gallicized as Strasbourg (Lower Alsatian: Strossburi; German: Straßburg). That name is of Germanic origin and means 'town (at the crossing) of roads'. The modern Stras- is cognate to the German Straße and English street, all of which are derived from Latin strata ("paved road"), while -bourg is cognate to the German Burg and English borough, all of which are derived from Proto-Germanic *burgz ("hill fort, fortress").

So Strasbourg is technically a German ship, but with the wrong flag & crewmen:Smile_hiding:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,787
Member
5,169 posts
9,121 battles
30 minutes ago, Admiral_Helena said:

Ironically that also means Strasbourg belongs to Germany.

After the 5th century, the city became known by a completely different name Gallicized as Strasbourg (Lower Alsatian: Strossburi; German: Straßburg). That name is of Germanic origin and means 'town (at the crossing) of roads'. The modern Stras- is cognate to the German Straße and English street, all of which are derived from Latin strata ("paved road"), while -bourg is cognate to the German Burg and English borough, all of which are derived from Proto-Germanic *burgz ("hill fort, fortress").

So Strasbourg is technically a German ship, but with the wrong flag & crewmen:Smile_hiding:

(Most of) France belongs to Germany anyway.

Edited by Paladinum
  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Member
1,504 posts
6,696 battles
3 hours ago, Admiral_Helena said:

Ironically that also means Strasbourg belongs to Germany.

After the 5th century, the city became known by a completely different name Gallicized as Strasbourg (Lower Alsatian: Strossburi; German: Straßburg). That name is of Germanic origin and means 'town (at the crossing) of roads'. The modern Stras- is cognate to the German Straße and English street, all of which are derived from Latin strata ("paved road"), while -bourg is cognate to the German Burg and English borough, all of which are derived from Proto-Germanic *burgz ("hill fort, fortress").

So Strasbourg is technically a German ship, but with the wrong flag & crewmen:Smile_hiding:

There is indeed another "Strassburg" in game already... Taranto, the Tier 3 Italian cruiser.

She was known as SMS Strassburg of the Magdeburg-class cruiser before July 1920 when she was transferred to the Italians as part of the war reparations.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,407
[-CAT-]
Member
2,788 posts
12,360 battles
9 hours ago, Admiral_Helena said:

Not to be a nitpick, but Brittany is how the English pronounce Bretagne. The French would be mad at that choice because it butchers something belongs to them.:Smile_trollface:

The name could work for a British ship instead. But even then.... The British never have any claim on that territory, aside from the fact it housed the exiled Britons when the Anglo Saxons conquered England.

Provence could work if WG has no plan to release the real one.

It's ok, you are not being nitpicky. Good to know. :fish_book:

Thanks for some background and history on Brittany. I learn something new everyday.

 

Provence is a good choice. Assuming WG have no plans to make a Bretagne premium ship other than Lorraine.

 

9 hours ago, Paladinum said:

N O

#BlameMrConway
I #BlameWG for this. Siegfried exists.

:Smile_hiding:

 

9 hours ago, Paladinum said:

*Liberté

Ah. Thanks for correcting me.

 

9 hours ago, Paladinum said:

Good suggestion. I hate turrets amidship.

:Smile_smile:

Edited by S0und_Theif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Administrator, WG Staff
247 posts
On 1/9/2021 at 8:35 PM, Paladinum said:

Alsace-Lorraine Elsaß-Lothringen belongs to Germany! Just like Skyrim belongs to the Nords!

Is that a Stormcloak I see? 👀 

 

On 1/9/2021 at 11:24 AM, S0und_Theif said:

I hope not.

The French never used "boing - boing" bombing.

I've actually never heard of the phrase, "boing-boing bombing," but I can say that definitely doesn't sound French. At least not historically 😅

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,407
[-CAT-]
Member
2,788 posts
12,360 battles

T9 / T10 Super Saint-Louis

Saint-Louis (C5-SA1) has 9 - 203 mm guns, 14 - 100 mm guns
Super Saint-Louis (Modified C5-SA1) has 12 - 203 mm guns, 8 - 100 mm guns.

The 6 - 100 mm guns in the rear will be removed and replaced with an X-turret. Some metals will also be removed to counter the weight. There is enough space to put a turret in that place.
(Same concept with Cheshire and Albemarle. Cheshire could really use another turret. 6 guns are just not enough. While Albemarle will be up tiered to T9 / T10 if she gets an X-turret.)

Why T9? Buffalo and Brinsdi.
Why T10? Zao and Hindenberg.
12 - 203 mm. It will now depend on HP pool and reload time.

shot-21_01.12_21_00.50-0107.thumb.jpg.74b0a8dc3bb6437a8b7410f3d000ba80.jpg

Consumables: (Based on T9 Saint-Louis)
R - Damage Control
T - Hydro or DFAA
U - French Speed Boost (20%) or Fighter or Spotter
Y - Heal
I - MBRB (50%)

 

Ship Names and Article:

A list of names for the new heavy cruisers were drawn up based on retired pre-dreadnought battleships. These names were Saint-Louis, Henri IV, Charlemagne, Brennus, Charles Martel and Vercingetorix. All work on the Saint-Louis class was scrapped after the fall of France on 25 June 1940, without a finalized armour layout (out of four different suggested plans) and without finalized details on the engines.

Charles Martel (Name already in use. T8 CA.)
Saint-Louis (Name already in use. T9 CA.)
Henry IV (Name already in use. T10 CA.)
Charlemagne
Brennus
Vercingetorix

Link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Louis-class_cruiser

Edited by S0und_Theif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×