FDR Immortal Planes are so broken which even 5 ships AA cannot stop them...

[Leviathon7881]

Today i am playing Worcester which once upon of time consider a "Non Fly zone" ship.  When me, Alaska, Halland, and 2 BB in the zone, FDR bombers fly toward me and start the attack, and the result is unbelievable.  3 fly over, dealing 27k damaged on me, and i can only shot down 2 planes even with my AA consumable on.  Can you believe 5 ships cannot even stop FDR planes from dealing massive damage before returning to their CV?????  For this i gotta support the recent rant from PQ regarding CV do not belong to WOW......Next time when facing FDR, i might just quit the match without wasting my time.

[THAI_THIEF]

Such pity 
WG designed those plane high health pool,long aimming time and numerous payload but too slow flight speed as compensate 

Because they well thick 

I don't give a 

WATCH HOW HE PLAYED IT

 

[Grygus_Triss]

Ah, but if an invisible DD spotted you, and then a Yamato fired from 20km away and did the same amount of damage, is that not the same issue?

Not really arguing, just looking from another angle.

[Metal_illness]

ONE squadron of FDR rocket planes got 3x attack runs on my Hizen (fighter defense activated, sectored AA, dodging all at same time), and I lost 90,000 hit points, over 30,000 hit points PER attack run.

Now my question is, if MVR was so OP, the players cries got it nerfed REAL DAMN QUICK,

 

WHAT ABOUT FDR WG???.

[hurricaneflyer]

Just now, Metal_illness said:

WHAT ABOUT FDR WG???.

I believe that it's related to how FDR is a steel ship, and that not enough people can get her to justify nerfing her.

Either way take this with a pinch of salt. I'm not 100% sure.

[ObiphanKenobi]

FDR suffered a 20 second delay before another turn in for attack

their attack is limited, so the CV player need to re time his attack, re line up, re pick his target, its frustrated because of the delay

use this gap to do something.

 

Not arguing and not looking for trouble, just point out something about the FDG disadvantage

[FatFluffyPenguin]

4 minutes ago, ObiphanKenobi said:

FDR suffered a 20 second delay before another turn in for attack

their attack is limited, so the CV player need to re time his attack, re line up, re pick his target, its frustrated because of the delay

use this gap to do something.

 

Not arguing and not looking for trouble, just point out something about the FDG disadvantage

True, but FDR's delay and healthpool is still better than having to retreat your planes because they cannot tank enough AA damage for another strike and sending in a new strike. Sending a new strike takes longer than FDR's plane reload.

[LawrenceXVIII]

3 hours ago, ObiphanKenobi said:

FDR suffered a 20 second delay before another turn in for attack

their attack is limited, so the CV player need to re time his attack, re line up, re pick his target, its frustrated because of the delay

use this gap to do something.

 

Not arguing and not looking for trouble, just point out something about the FDG disadvantage

 

Even it has the long arming time, they can use the time to keep it spotting. That is like making us feel useless hiding against enemy ships difficult to disengage, especially poor concealment Cruiser or BBS.

And at the same time, they use the time to plan for next attack.

 

Smart FDR players can use that tactics you know.

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

Now that the Super Tester recruitment is up. Just hope those who qualify won't just use their role to play the unreleased ships. Granted, these broken ships are not entirely their fault. But they are still part of the development team who test these things. Especially now WG has stopped taking feedback from CCs, STs are the last representatives from the playerbase in the development team.

I'm not saying STs are always at fault though. They stopped Kitakami, and held off Slava for a year. Both were good examples on how they took their responsibility. But then there are things like FDR & Thunderer.

[Skarhabek]

FDR is more darker than you know.....

the best way to counter FDR is having "Massive AA Fire" commander skill in DD, which will shatter 10% of squadron with just 12 sec cooldown of priority sector. since it need atleast 20 sec to re attack again, you are guarantee to deal damage 19% of its squadron HP (use priority sector twice)..... since most player dont have it, LOL

my Orkan is laughing so hard.....

 

but here is next tips

WG IS REMOVING MASSIVE AA FIRE IN THE NEXT COMMANDER REWORK, LEAVING FDR WITHOUT COUNTER

 

ALSO, NEXT YEAR, WG IS PLANNING TO REMOVE FDR.... making FDR owner (that already good player) become more and more OP and people is forced for more GACHA BOX

 

 

i told ya before Alaska, Georgia, is GOING TO BE Removed, yet people call me Heresy

now its really obvious....

 

THIS GAME IS DOOMED THE MOMENT WG Remove Belfast and Kutuzov from shop.... if its too broken WE HAVE KITAKAMI, DELETE IT COMPLETELY

letting some player having OP ship yet the other suffer from unobtainable ship....

 

also

delete CV is the most stupid thing player ever proposed, IF CV REMOVED, there is no point playing cruiser... just get fast battleship like Georgia and Jean bart....

and guess what? gameplay is more passive.... remember RTS CV? when CV is so rare in battle.... the gameplay is more passive

[Drakon233]

11 minutes ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

Now that the Super Tester recruitment is up. Just hope those who qualify won't just use their role to play the unreleased ships. Granted, these broken ships are not entirely their fault. But they are still part of the development team who test these things. Especially now WG has stopped taking feedback from CCs, STs are the last representatives from the playerbase in the development team.

I'm not saying STs are always at fault though. They stopped Kitakami, and held off Slava for a year. Both were good examples on how they took their responsibility. But then there are things like FDR & Thunderer.

pfft, you know as well as everyone else WG doesn't listen to STs, I've know a few who've written whole long ass essays on why certain things need changes in game, only for WG to chuck it in the bin without even taking a peep

[Mechfori]

Torpedo boat DD frequently had reload of like 150 sec, then why are they not given the same consistency in hitting so hard, let's be true to it the delay do not justify how this CV can hit so hard even with combined AA of multiple ships on ... It's flat broken and it need to be significantly nerfed , period.

[Mechfori]

2 hours ago, Skarhabek said:

FDR is more darker than you know.....

the best way to counter FDR is having "Massive AA Fire" commander skill in DD, which will shatter 10% of squadron with just 12 sec cooldown of priority sector. since it need atleast 20 sec to re attack again, you are guarantee to deal damage 19% of its squadron HP (use priority sector twice)..... since most player dont have it ...

Know what you mean , try it before, the problem with AA build today and in coming change is that they require too much in both upgrade and captain skill leaving the ship handicapped or less capable, sometime below the norm when dealing with other situations , and yet it still do not properly AA. Yes you can down planes but those attack waves still can be pressed through .. no sense telling that cause planes re-spawn but damage deal to surface ship is massive, immediate and effective when plane killed do nothing to CV , not even really hampering CV ability to keep sending attacks.

If the mechanism aim for it that aerial attack on an engagement can happen without any damage to CV itself it should in turn allow AA to stop attack from the sky to deal any damage  to surface ships

As it is at best AA only reduce total DPS ( individual attack wave ), any engagement should allow equal fair measure of play and counterplay both side , CV sending planes, well it's quite apparently not and so long this continue the call for banning CV will not stop.

Is it the right thing to do, perhaps not but the right thing that need to be done , clearly WG had no intention to do it and WG is showing every intent not to give surface ships their rightful and due defensive measure to counter aerial attack and even less , counter measure to equally hurt, harm and damage CV as CV can to surface ships during such aerial vs surface encounter. Well then if the right thing that need to be done will not be , then the call would be for CV to be removed . I would not disagree with them , it's WG own making .

[Skarhabek]

1 hour ago, Mechfori said:

Know what you mean , try it before, the problem with AA build today and in coming change is that they require too much in both upgrade and captain skill leaving the ship handicapped or less capable, sometime below the norm when dealing with other situations , and yet it still do not properly AA. Yes you can down planes but those attack waves still can be pressed through .. no sense telling that cause planes re-spawn but damage deal to surface ship is massive, immediate and effective when plane killed do nothing to CV , not even really hampering CV ability to keep sending attacks.

If the mechanism aim for it that aerial attack on an engagement can happen without any damage to CV itself it should in turn allow AA to stop attack from the sky to deal any damage  to surface ships

As it is at best AA only reduce total DPS ( individual attack wave ), any engagement should allow equal fair measure of play and counterplay both side , CV sending planes, well it's quite apparently not and so long this continue the call for banning CV will not stop.

Is it the right thing to do, perhaps not but the right thing that need to be done , clearly WG had no intention to do it and WG is showing every intent not to give surface ships their rightful and due defensive measure to counter aerial attack and even less , counter measure to equally hurt, harm and damage CV as CV can to surface ships during such aerial vs surface encounter. Well then if the right thing that need to be done will not be , then the call would be for CV to be removed . I would not disagree with them , it's WG own making .

i think you misunderstood me, what i mean is FDR WILL BE BECOME MORE BROKEN ONCE Commander rework done.

if you want to protest CV being broken make another thread. this thread is solely about FDR being OP and will be removed in 2021 for christmas gacha box.

 

as a CV player myself i dislike / hate the idea of CV being unobtainable. (like FDR and Enterprise)

CV should be the only ship in game that making any noob dealing massive damage alias EZ Mode....

if such power exist, ITS SHOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYONE! NO DISCRIMINATION!

 

Unicum hate CV because they are just surface pheasant compared to mighty CV

any noob CV could hammer any unicum in surface sheep.... and UNICUM HATE IT

 

CV is like protector of the noob,

CV IS THE EASY WAY, the short path of darkside, that people consider unnatural......

 

 

WG IS GOING TO REMOVE FDR, and the only way to get it is from Gacha Box $$$$$$$$$

 

[Mechfori]

Well it will not come to be ,you know it Shark ,it's exactly how WG want it to be , op , unable to be countered, and unable to be obtained unless ........ from Gacha Box $$$$$$$$$

Kron, Mushashi, JB, ..... the list is long and we all know FDR is only part of a long list of this all. 

is there a viable changes that can be made to balance thing right , sure but will WG do it ? FDR only part of it all ... Really it does not bother me , play long enough and one learn to deal with things like the FDR , though , does not made or mean their very existence or how they are, right !

FDR , to be removed or not is not the issue the issue on hand is if WG will nerf it to balance and if not then the next thing is that they need to buff everybody else to that same level of op-ness , I hardly see this happening nor desire it we do not need yet more op game breakers.

Really FDR should go the way the old Graf goes, simply made it unavailable for play until they can made a new FDR

[Moggytwo]

12 hours ago, Metal_illness said:

ONE squadron of FDR rocket planes got 3x attack runs on my Hizen (fighter defense activated, sectored AA, dodging all at same time), and I lost 90,000 hit points, over 30,000 hit points PER attack run.

Now my question is, if MVR was so OP, the players cries got it nerfed REAL DAMN QUICK,

This isn't even close to possible.  What is the point of using hyperbole?  It just means no one will take you seriously.  If you have an issue, say what actually happened.

 

18 hours ago, Leviathon7881 said:

Today i am playing Worcester which once upon of time consider a "Non Fly zone" ship.  When me, Alaska, Halland, and 2 BB in the zone, FDR bombers fly toward me and start the attack, and the result is unbelievable.  3 fly over, dealing 27k damaged on me, and i can only shot down 2 planes even with my AA consumable on.  Can you believe 5 ships cannot even stop FDR planes from dealing massive damage before returning to their CV?????  For this i gotta support the recent rant from PQ regarding CV do not belong to WOW......Next time when facing FDR, i might just quit the match without wasting my time.

You can't look at how many planes are shot down by you personally if five different ships are shooting at the planes, because the plane kill only goes to the person who did the last damage to the plane, just like a ship kill.  All 14 planes might have been shot down, but you only got the killing blow on two of them.  How many planes actually got shot down?

Also, FDR bombs have a very long drop time, which means that so long as you are actively dodging you're extremely unlikely to get hit by more than a couple of bombs.  If you're sitting still you deserve whatever size whack you get of course.

FDR is not a particularly strong CV, it's pretty average overall.  It is good against static large ships, but mediocre against maneuvering ships, and close to impotent against DD's.  Midway is a notably better T10 CV.

[Leviathon7881]

40 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

This isn't even close to possible.  What is the point of using hyperbole?  It just means no one will take you seriously.  If you have an issue, say what actually happened.

 

You can't look at how many planes are shot down by you personally if five different ships are shooting at the planes, because the plane kill only goes to the person who did the last damage to the plane, just like a ship kill.  All 14 planes might have been shot down, but you only got the killing blow on two of them.  How many planes actually got shot down?

Also, FDR bombs have a very long drop time, which means that so long as you are actively dodging you're extremely unlikely to get hit by more than a couple of bombs.  If you're sitting still you deserve whatever size whack you get of course.

FDR is not a particularly strong CV, it's pretty average overall.  It is good against static large ships, but mediocre against maneuvering ships, and close to impotent against DD's.  Midway is a notably better T10 CV.

The fact that i never complain MVR/Midway are OP because even they can do damage to me during first fly over, i still can stop them either the second or third fly over.  But with FDR, they can just circle around you until they have done 3 fly over, deal massive damage to your ship before returning.

Another broken thing regarding FDR is that they can cause a very very long period of spotting damage to your ship as they can fly around you as long as they want.  You need to decide weather you want to dodge damage from FDR, or dodge damage from other surface ships for a long period of time.  In my case i chose to dodge damage from other surface ships, so FDR really whacked me hard and our AA seems pretty useless in this case.

Well everyone have their own opinion regarding WOW game play.  For you, you sounds like an expert know everything in details and based your comment on what you think you know.  for us ordinary players we only comment on  what we experienced in the game.

So your expert comment is "FDR is an overall average CV which is worst than Midway", and for us who experienced being unreasonable whacked by FDR will still think that FDR is OP and should be seriously look into. 

 

[Metal_illness]

Bit strange you saying its not possible when it happened.

One squadron of rocket planes got 3 attack runs on my ship, and hit it for 30k dmg each time, total was actually over 90k as some hits were around 35k, I was too busy trying to dodge, sector AA, put out fires etc.

 

[Metal_illness]

13 hours ago, ObiphanKenobi said:

FDR suffered a 20 second delay before another turn in for attack

their attack is limited, so the CV player need to re time his attack, re line up, re pick his target, its frustrated because of the delay

use this gap to do something.

 

Not arguing and not looking for trouble, just point out something about the FDG disadvantage

I use the gap to dodge incoming salvos, because I'm perma spotted by FDR planes.

I also use the gap to heal so the FDR has more xp and credits to earn from my hit points pool.

I also use the gap to put out fires, flooding.

 

[Metal_illness]

The games WG make are supposed to be rock paper scissors type scenarios, if one player brings rock, there is paper to combat it.

FDR brings unobtainium to a battle, and unfortunately usually only ONE TEAM gonna get UNOBTAINIUM.

[Moggytwo]

6 minutes ago, Metal_illness said:

Bit strange you saying its not possible when it happened.

One squadron of rocket planes got 3 attack runs on my ship, and hit it for 30k dmg each time, total was actually over 90k as some hits were around 35k, I was too busy trying to dodge, sector AA, put out fires etc.

It is impossible for AP RF's to citadel a Hizen.  Absolutely impossible, the belt armour is too thick.  The best the MvR could do is some pens, and a good broadside MvR rocket salvo would be lucky to do much over 5k.

Also, Hizen has less than 76k health.  You're doing well to take 90k in a squadron when you only have 76k health to start with.  Even if you were attacked before you lost a single point of health, and popped a heal during the attack, and that heal managed to fully tick before you died, you would still only take 86k.  Considering you said you were "putting out fires", you clearly weren't only taking damage from just the CV, so that's even more health you don't actually have that he apparently took off you.

Please provide the replay so we can all see what actually happened.

 

2 hours ago, Leviathon7881 said:

So your expert comment is "FDR is an overall average CV which is worst than Midway", and for us who experienced being unreasonable whacked by FDR will still think that FDR is OP and should be seriously look into.  

Well don't forget that FDR is a steel ship, so the people who own it will generally be well above average players.  Any other T10 CV you come up against will usually be played by a far worse player than the average FDR you come up against.

Also, let's compare the win rates of steel ships (and former steel ships):

1. Flint                     61.0%
2. Plymouth            60.1%
3. Neustrashimy    60.1%
4. Black                   59.4%
5. Bourgogne         59.2%
6. Somers               59.1%
7. Shikishima         58.5%
8. Stalingrad           57.9%
9. FDR                      54.1%

So all of the steel ships are within a 3% band, from 58 to 61%, with the sole exception of the FDR, whose win rate is 4% lower than the second least effective steel ship, and you're telling us the ship is OP? 

I have all the T10 CV's, including FDR.  I can assure you that FDR just isn't as good as Midway.  You may well feel that it's hard to shoot down FDR's planes - you should, that's one of the ship's strengths.  Her DPM is low though, she's almost completely ineffective against DD's, and damage from her is easy to mitigate so long as you aren't static.

When it comes to making an actual meaningful contribution to winning the game, the FDR is less effective than most of the other T10 CV's.

[Leviathon7881]

3 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

It is impossible for AP RF's to citadel a Hizen.  Absolutely impossible, the belt armour is too thick.  The best the MvR could do is some pens, and a good broadside MvR rocket salvo would be lucky to do much over 5k.

Also, Hizen has less than 76k health.  You're doing well to take 90k in a squadron when you only have 76k health to start with.  Even if you were attacked before you lost a single point of health, and popped a heal during the attack, and that heal managed to fully tick before you died, you would still only take 86k.  Considering you said you were "putting out fires", you clearly weren't only taking damage from just the CV, so that's even more health you don't actually have that he apparently took off you.

Please provide the replay so we can all see what actually happened.

 

Well don't forget that FDR is a steel ship, so the people who own it will generally be well above average players.  Any other T10 CV you come up against will usually be played by a far worse player than the average FDR you come up against.

Also, let's compare the win rates of steel ships (and former steel ships):

1. Flint                     61.0%
2. Plymouth            60.1%
3. Neustrashimy    60.1%
4. Black                   59.4%
5. Bourgogne         59.2%
6. Somers               59.1%
7. Shikishima         58.5%
8. Stalingrad           57.9%
9. FDR                      54.1%

So all of the steel ships are within a 3% band, from 58 to 61%, with the sole exception of the FDR, whose win rate is 4% lower than the second least effective steel ship, and you're telling us the ship is OP? 

I have all the T10 CV's, including FDR.  I can assure you that FDR just isn't as good as Midway.  You may well feel that it's hard to shoot down FDR's planes - you should, that's one of the ship's strengths.  Her DPM is low though, she's almost completely ineffective against DD's, and damage from her is easy to mitigate so long as you aren't static.

When it comes to making an actual meaningful contribution to winning the game, the FDR is less effective than most of the other T10 CV's.

So now instead of comparing with other CV, you are now comparing with other Steel ships?  Well i am running out of argument in this topic.  You can always pull out all those infamous spreadsheet as what WG always doing, real game experience wise we as the ordinary players know well what we experienced in game.  We are a normal player who are mature enough to be able to judge what is reasonable and what is broken.

p/s - just have another game against FDR.  This time it planes just circle around our CV for god's know how long until their BBs can long range snipe from more than 19km and kill our CV.  Talk about FDR immortal planes.

[zergling_]

57 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Also, let's compare the win rates of steel ships (and former steel ships):

1. Flint                     61.0%
2. Plymouth            60.1%
3. Neustrashimy    60.1%
4. Black                   59.4%
5. Bourgogne         59.2%
6. Somers               59.1%
7. Shikishima         58.5%
8. Stalingrad           57.9%
9. FDR                      54.1%

So all of the steel ships are within a 3% band, from 58 to 61%, with the sole exception of the FDR, whose win rate is 4% lower than the second least effective steel ship, and you're telling us the ship is OP? 

 

This is something I've been questioning myself.. anomaly.

EL has better W/R than FDR

[Mechfori]

In a balance world we should had all ships, not just steel ships to had similar win rate over a large population of players , over an extended period of time across multiple server , just comparing the Steel ships do not made it a case of being BALANCED .. let see the figure of the ship against say Khaba , or Zao, or Montana and of course their kill ratio, survival rate, damage figure and  ....

Now there I could take a stand, cause that's my profession , as I state before numbers tell but also number deceive , and most of all number do not tell what's not on the numbers ... is there a figure that compare FDR's engagement history regarding how much damage it deal to enemy vs how much enemy deal to the planes , even with that we had to figure in that most of the damage done by the plane towards surface sips are not healable or simply the ship do not had heal at all, but each and every plane kill, it can and will re-spawn ... automatically without the need for anything done

Those win rate say nothing about the ship itself, at least not the part regarding BALANCE , and BALANCE is where CV, and especially FDR really skewed way out of hand for majority of players ( who are not unicum at all )

[Skarhabek]

 

Franklin D. Roosevelt 10 Aircraft Carrier U.S.A. 28 414 54.09 % 1 118 900 2 004 4.13 5.7

Manfred von Richthofen 10 Aircraft Carrier Germany 204 957 52.42 % 1.09 109 650 1 965 4.61 7.54

Audacious 10 Aircraft Carrier U.K. 258 591 48.69 % 0.93 90 166 1 878 4.61 5.47

Hakuryū 10 Aircraft Carrier Japan 1 099 408 48.19 % 0.94 91 781 1 837 5.09 5.86

Midway 10 Aircraft Carrier U.S.A. 1 116 161 47.22 % 0.89 87 976 1 877 5.43 5.05

 

https://asia.wows-numbers.com/ships/

 

 

T10 Highest Win rate combined with highest Average damage seems broken to me.....