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Buffs in secondaries

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I know I know most of you have been saying there will be a huge nerf to secondaries ships. There are still some good aspects:

Agir:

Base range 8.3, although no aft skill and manual sec skills. 

Yoshino:

Base range 7.6, but with Shikishima's 100mm guns

All non-German/French got a range buff, openning up possibilities (maybe Russian BB super tank sec build?)

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60% dispersion to 35% 

Guess what you totallly useless 

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7,7 to 8,3 km is a "buff". It isn't a buff unless it's at least 10 km.

Edited by Paladinum

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Secondaries are this funny thing where if WG buffed them to where they should be DDs wouldn't want to get withing 15km of a BB...

Basically most high tier BBs have the equivalent of multiple DDs strapped onto each side with a sprinkling of CL as well...

Personally I have no problems with them buffing the hell out of secondaries, event accuracy. WoWS is mostly a vision game for DDs anyways.

BUT a minor range buff and then dispersion nerfs and other things in the skills rework hasn't made secondaries better, it's made them worse.

And the KM SCs it doesn't matter, they can't run secondary skills anyways.

Edited by S4pp3R
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Secondary build is already a meme at the current state. Looks good on paper, but is completely impractical for most of the time. Of course I'm talking about its usage on PvP. I mean on PvE, you can try full secondary build on any CLs without losing anything.

Even for GK, a full secondary build doesn't really make a huge difference compared to the partial secondary build (range only). Both builds can hit BBs even at maximum range, but at the same time both builds are impractical against the smaller targets, especially DDs at over 7 km away.

As Yuro said in one of his guide: "It takes a special kind of stupid to be killed by it (secondary)". That quote is completely relevant considering what kind of meta that rules on the high tier games. I mean if you are fully aware of the situation, most of the secondary BBs should not get close enough to use their secondaries on you in the first place. Except if you happen to play the slow US BB line, and the secondary BB that chases you just happen to be Georgia. Then God have mercy.

Back to the post-rework secondary build. In case you miss it completely, none of the BBs are currently recommended to take Manual Secondary skills if the BBs are lower than T7, aside from the silly memes. Because the accuracy bonus from it is way too little to make it worth the skill points (and because it restricts the use to a single target). I know the restriction on single target will be lifted in the new system, but the lower accuracy bonus is there, for all tiers.

Lastly, the rework will also bring the sniper build into the game. That one is a salt to the injury for the secondary build.

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1 hour ago, S4pp3R said:

Secondaries are this funny thing where if WG buffed them to where they should be DDs wouldn't want to get withing 15km of a BB...

Basically most high tier BBs have the equivalent of multiple DDs strapped onto each side with a sprinkling of CL as well...

Personally I have no problems with them buffing the hell out of secondaries, event accuracy. WoWS is mostly a vision game for DDs anyways.

BUT a minor range buff and then dispersion nerfs and other things in the skills rework hasn't made secondaries better, it's made them worse.

And the KM SCs it doesn't matter, they can't run secondary skills anyways.

Yeah, if you look at the secondary's on most battleships, they match those on the DDs and a few CLs of the same nation.

Those secondary's should have the same range as they do on the DDs & CLs. Greater even, as the limiting factor on the DDs is not the gun range, but the fire control ability, which isd greater on BBs.

Of course, even with the usual inaccuracy, that would probably make BBs too powerful if they had base secondary ranges out to 10km+.

I wonder if secondary's on  BBs would work better if they were operated like torpedo's. Instead of being automatic, you have to select them, say, hit '4' key, and then use them like main battery. No, its not strictly RL accurate, but it does move more towards that "right weapon for the job thing. Of course, it would make BBs very OP against every ship, even though they would be limited in how much of their armaments' they can use at once.

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11 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

I wonder if secondary's on  BBs would work better if they were operated like torpedo's. Instead of being automatic, you have to select them, say, hit '4' key, and then use them like main battery. No, its not strictly RL accurate, but it does move more towards that "right weapon for the job thing. Of course, it would make BBs very OP against every ship, even though they would be limited in how much of their armaments' they can use at once.

Literally all other ship games I play have that exact feature.

Untitled.thumb.png.e7fd1cb6b928c003f9562c4ebaffec7e.png

Yes It would have made BBs in this game OP.

The only reason why it is ok to have in that game is because the whole aiming has to be adjusted manually. As the picture shows, the crosshairs are not even concentrated to the center because I should have widened the firing angle properly, in accordance to the range of the target. But in WoWs, all turrets follow the cursor's whim.

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1 hour ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

Even for GK, a full secondary build doesn't really make a huge difference compared to the partial secondary build (range only). Both builds can hit BBs even at maximum range, but at the same time both builds are impractical against the smaller targets, especially DDs at over 7 km away.

Yeah, that's why my GK has Range Mod.1 in her Slot 6. Out of pure spite.

 

3 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

Secondaries are this funny thing where if WG buffed them to where they should be DDs wouldn't want to get withing 15km of a BB...

Range is everything - gun range, torp range, spotting range, concealment range. Secondary is a meme because of its range. I can's say anything of the other servers, but here, even trying to get in secondary range with a BB is already idiotic, unless you're a Georgia.

 

Whatever. Secondary is, indeed, secondary. Inessential. Unimportant. Optional.

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It's important to look at the overall picture and not just the reduced dispersion with man sec. Right now on live secondaries are only a fun but sub-optimal meme build, but post-rework they are likely to be an actual viable option. 

Overall, secondary specs are likely to be the biggest beneficiaries of the rework.

You will be able to effectively take a full survivability build, while also taking all the secondary talents. This will massively increase the power of a secondary spec BB - no longer will they have to choose between secondaries and survivability.

So, compared to a secondary spec now, you will lose some accuracy from Manual Fire Control (which is a negative or positive depending on your target type and the range you're firing from). You will gain Survivability Expert for -15% module repair and fire/flooding duration, Concealment Expert for -10% spotting range, and Fire Prevention for only three possible fires and -10% fire chance. You will also gain the ability for your secondaries to fire on undesignated targets as well as your designated sec target, and secondary ranges are being buffed across the board.

Not only that, but the reduced dispersion on your main target will mainly affect DD's and cruisers at range, but have much less of an effect when targeting BB's. At closer ranges the reduced dispersion will actually help, as secondaries target low on the main belt where they can't actually pen, and it will increase the chance of getting multiple fires. 

Frankly, with how much more secondary BB's are getting than any other ship type, it wouldn't surprise me if they apply a few nerfs to rein them in.

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1 hour ago, Paladinum said:

Range is everything

Not quite, being able to hit your target is everything, range is just a limiting factor for that (one of many).

From what I've been seeing secondary builds are still going to be just for memes.

But I think that there needs to be a long road till these changes go live because IMO it's not in a good state yo go on live.

Secondaries are just one minor facet to the overall skills rework.

Edited by S4pp3R

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775
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90% Dispersion means really nothing

 

 

the good part is, More range, more panic to Destroyer users, if you got range with the secondaries, they will have less time to react than having accurate Auxillaries.

 

One word though

 

"Accuracy isn't the key, Inaccuracies also have a great advantage"

 

Random Auxillary shots can strike hidden cruisers, additionally they can hit Magazines of Certain cruisers and Destroyers too.

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Dear Neptune, WG actually make secondary range on CRs playble :cap_haloween:

I'm not saying this is a good thing. I'm just saying that it can get hilarious.

PS. Except for the fact that CRs don't have secondary range skill anymore.

Edited by Paladinum

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FYI, in another better naval simulator, basic 152mm secondaries have a range of about 12 to 13km, 203mm secondaries have something like 17 to 18km. 

Wait. Does that sound like the secondaries have the exact same range as the exact same gun mounted as a main armament on another ship?

HMMMMMM.

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You have got to try out Venezia secondary build. You have got to do it.

pepelaugh.png.50014b811f15b570a53b2cddd662af5a.png

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6 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

I wonder if secondary's on  BBs would work better if they were operated like torpedo's. Instead of being automatic, you have to select them, say, hit '4' key, and then use them like main battery. No, its not strictly RL accurate, but it does move more towards that "right weapon for the job thing. Of course, it would make BBs very OP against every ship, even though they would be limited in how much of their armaments' they can use at once. 

WoWs Blitz allows you to do that actually.

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