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TGed

Nerf for HE fire chance?

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Do you guys think the HE fire chance needs a nerf? Playing battleships is so frustrating at times since your armor is completely irrelevant against fires. You can counter 1 fire with a repair party, 2 or more simultaneous fires and you'll be taking damage equal to eating a AP salvo unless you use a repair party...only to be burned again when all of your consumables are on cooldown.

I think the main thing that's needed to nerf is the fire chance percentage, because once you translate that to the amount of fires you can start per broadside salvo, it's quite scary:

Tier 5 Cruisers (since this is the highest Tier I've reached so far)

Kotovsky: 8% fire chance, 8 shots per salvo = 12.5 salvo for 100 shots = 0.64 fire per salvo

Krasny Krym: 8% fire chance, 8 shots per salvo = 12.5 salvo for 100 shots = 0.64 fire per salvo

Mikoyan: 11% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 0.65 fire per salvo

Konigsberg: 8% fire chance, 9 shots per salvo = ~11 salvo for 100 shots = 0.72 fire per salvo

Yahagi: 13% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 0.76 fire per salvo

Murmansk: 12% fire chance, 7 shots per salvo = ~14 salvo for 100 shots = 0.86 fire per salvo

Hawkings: 15% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 0.88 fire per salvo

Exeter: 15% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 0.88 fire per salvo

Furutaka: 17% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 1 fire per salvo

Omaha/Marblehead: 12% fire chance, 8 shots per salvo = 12.5 salvo for 100 shots = ~1 fire per salvo

Emile Bertin: 12% fire chance, 9 shots per salvo = ~11 salvo for 100 shots = ~1 fire per salvo

Kirov: 13% fire chance, 9 shots per salvo = ~11 salvo for 100 shots = ~1.2 fire per salvo
 

Essentially, most cruisers at T5, on average, guarantees a fire per 2 salvos, with some with having a good chance of fire for every salvo. With Demolition Expert it might as well be a fire per salvo for most if not all the T5 cruisers. Combined with how quick cruisers reload, burn damage is arguably the most consistent large damage source for cruisers, except for the Germans and Emerald as they mainly rely on AP.

Of course, I know that RNG doesn't work that way. You could have fired 20 salvos with zero fires ignited, you could fire a salvo that ignited 2 or even 3 fires, you could/ the dispersion caused you to miss shots that could have caused fires, some of your shots shattered etc. But on average, a fire per broadside salvo from rapid-firing cruisers just makes armor and angling somewhat irrelevant, since it's guarantee damage unless countered by consumables. This made battleships especially vulnerable against them since they have a long burn time and a long consumable reload time.

I would prefer all the HE shells to work like the German HE: low damage, decent pen to ensure consistency, with the occasional chance to lit fires. Fires should still be kept of course since small caliber guns (cruisers, DDs, secondaries) still need a way to do damage to heavily armored targets, but I think the fire chance should be drastically lowered. Or the burn time/damage could be dramatically reduced, similar to how long floods last/damage done by floods.

What do you think?

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See the source image

Serious note wise,  Higher tiers are even worse than low tiers. Only way is for you not to get burnt down in 5-10 minutes is constantly pay attention to the minimap (where you placed urself, but of course don't stray too far away as you won't hit anything)  :Smile_hiding:

Edited by _AkaNo

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23 minutes ago, TGed said:

Do you guys think the HE fire chance needs a nerf? Playing battleships is so frustrating at times since your armor is completely irrelevant against fires. You can counter 1 fire with a repair party, 2 or more simultaneous fires and you'll be taking damage equal to eating a AP salvo unless you use a repair party...only to be burned again when all of your consumables are on cooldown.

I think the main thing that's needed to nerf is the fire chance percentage, because once you translate that to the amount of fires you can start per broadside salvo, it's quite scary:

Tier 5 Cruisers (since this is the highest Tier I've reached so far)

Kotovsky: 8% fire chance, 8 shots per salvo = 12.5 salvo for 100 shots = 0.64 fire per salvo

Krasny Krym: 8% fire chance, 8 shots per salvo = 12.5 salvo for 100 shots = 0.64 fire per salvo

Mikoyan: 11% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 0.65 fire per salvo

Konigsberg: 8% fire chance, 9 shots per salvo = ~11 salvo for 100 shots = 0.72 fire per salvo

Yahagi: 13% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 0.76 fire per salvo

Murmansk: 12% fire chance, 7 shots per salvo = ~14 salvo for 100 shots = 0.86 fire per salvo

Hawkings: 15% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 0.88 fire per salvo

Exeter: 15% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 0.88 fire per salvo

Furutaka: 17% fire chance, 6 shots per salvo = ~17 salvo for 100 shots = 1 fire per salvo

Omaha/Marblehead: 12% fire chance, 8 shots per salvo = 12.5 salvo for 100 shots = ~1 fire per salvo

Emile Bertin: 12% fire chance, 9 shots per salvo = ~11 salvo for 100 shots = ~1 fire per salvo

Kirov: 13% fire chance, 9 shots per salvo = ~11 salvo for 100 shots = ~1.2 fire per salvo
 

Essentially, most cruisers at T5, on average, guarantees a fire per 2 salvos, with some with having a good chance of fire for every salvo. With Demolition Expert it might as well be a fire per salvo for most if not all the T5 cruisers. Combined with how quick cruisers reload, burn damage is arguably the most consistent large damage source for cruisers, except for the Germans and Emerald as they mainly rely on AP.

Of course, I know that RNG doesn't work that way. You could have fired 20 salvos with zero fires ignited, you could fire a salvo that ignited 2 or even 3 fires, you could/ the dispersion caused you to miss shots that could have caused fires, some of your shots shattered etc. But on average, a fire per broadside salvo from rapid-firing cruisers just makes armor and angling somewhat irrelevant, since it's guarantee damage unless countered by consumables. This made battleships especially vulnerable against them since they have a long burn time and a long consumable reload time.

I would prefer all the HE shells to work like the German HE: low damage, decent pen to ensure consistency, with the occasional chance to lit fires. Fires should still be kept of course since small caliber guns (cruisers, DDs, secondaries) still need a way to do damage to heavily armored targets, but I think the fire chance should be drastically lowered. Or the burn time/damage could be dramatically reduced, similar to how long floods last/damage done by floods.

What do you think?

You so young to learn how to deal with your own HE shells

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Each ship has a fire chance for her HE shells. 

Each ship also has a chance for her to catch on fires, which reduces the listed fire chance for HE shells by a percentage.

A Koenig has 16,6% chance reduction, but a GK has 50% reduction. Low tier BBs can get on fire more than high tier BBs, due to the nature of HE spammers in that tier bracket.

 

This is part of a mechanic that new players don't seem to be informed about by the game (you have to go on Youtube to watch the video about HE shells and fire chance), and it's frustrating for even more experienced players.

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Sorry but at tier 5, any battleships have huge advantage over cruisers (mainly longer gun range). Almost all cruisers in that list can be nuked by a salvo of battleship's HE, only Emile Bertin that is a bit tricky to nail down.

Cruisers only become a real pain in the aft at high tier, mainly because a lot of them can shoot far enough to make battleships rethink their plan to play closer.

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4 minutes ago, Admiral_Helena said:

Sorry but at tier 5, any battleships have huge advantage over cruisers (mainly longer gun range). Almost all cruisers in that list can be nuked by a salvo of battleship's HE, only Emile Bertin that is a bit tricky to nail down.

See Remove BBs thread.

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Sadly the ability to actually inflict damage onto enemy just do not balance out , if we are to talk about reducing HE fire chance, we need to balance that out ( for cruisers ) way more effective AP pen and ricochet angles , HE alpha , and for DD way way way more consistent Torpedo hit and range , and likely increase of damage for some , and might be even buffing the guns for some ( including fire chance ) and for BB accuracy and reload. No less also at mid tier, only the BB had heal and they can just tank and heal when others cannot so in the end HE spamming and keep burning the hull become almost the only viable option for so many ... and that only worsen as you go up the tiers as ranging become more a norm , and people know to angle properly , and even less usable for any torp ( since you are pretty much all range out anyway )

I do agree HE spamming is fast becoming no.1 nemesis in game but until WG  balance so other means are equally able to effectively, and consistently do their job , players will simply not start doing anything otherwise .. in very simple term, it works

Edited by Mechfori
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Never put out the first fire on any ship that has repair party.

Maybe never put out the first fire in any ship actually - especially if you are currently being fired at - and extra especially if you are under fire from multiple enemies who are using HE on you.

In any ship, one fire is far from the worst thing that can happen to you.

Example: You are in a DD and you get one fire. You use dam con and the next salvo knocks out your rudder and engine... kinda wish you had held your nerve right?

If I am in a BB with either a reasonable health pool and/or a reasonable health pool left and/or a great repair party consumable and I am under fire from HE boats I might not even put out two fires. If i can soak that damage and survive long enough to repair, I know I am getting all that health back. Different ships have different types of repair parties and you will have to learn this.

Some UK ships with repair parties can come back from almost death. Even USN BBs can survive some terrible fire damage.

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To OP, you might need to buff your aiming skill instead. It is just impossible to get burned to death by any of them except when you cannot score any hit on them at all.

And the last time WG came up with that suggestion, almost any ships other than battleships & carriers took IFHE as one of their captain skill.

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