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Rina_Pon

Stop playing BBs!!

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Matchmaking queues at T8-10 this weekend during peak hours were typically 20 : 120 : 20 : 14.

90% of randoms had at least one CV, and since I play DD, the games have at least one DD and usually several.

As a DD though, I really felt the absence of cruisers. On the one hand less radar to deal with, but on the other it means DD fights tended to be solo affairs. Normally as a torp boat the way I deal with enemy DDs is to outspot then and let my cruisers take them out, and without that I'm at a big disadvantage against the Euro and French DDs especially.

One problem is the new CVs are too good at deleting cruisers, CVs are in every match, and CV skill average is rising a lot lately. The other is there are so many BBs, so too many threats for CA/CL to avoid. It's the SUV mentality - no one wants to drive a compact on a highway where everyone else is in a truck.

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Yeah. I feel ya. Been grinding my Minotaur UU for the past few days.

Now, I’m not skilled by any means, but it’s somewhat difficult when you are in a lightly armoured CL with a very short range, so you have to get between about 10 to 15km from enemy to fire. Because of the lack of cruisers, you are likely the only one on the flank, And your own BBs can comfortably fire from 18+ away, meaning that you are the closest thing to the enemy by a large margin, and very squishy. Even worse, if there is one or less DD in game, or DDs die, you are often promoted to DD as you have a very low detection range for a cruiser, and BBs are not spotting their own targets, and you can’t dodge shells like a DD, and you have a citadel.

So I find, with the large number of BBs, that I get spotted for a second and am targeted by about 3+ BBs, and often citadelled from any angle. And it only takes a few shells to kill me.

Smoke doesn’t work either, since a lot of these BBs seem to have good blindfiring accuracy. Or maybe it’s just because there are a lot of them. Somethings going to stick.

And yes, CVs hurt. At least mino has semi decent AA.

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I do wonder what’s going to happen when subs come in with low DD numbers.

Will presence of submarines lower the BB population? Will more people play DDs to counter subs? Or Will more people avoid DDs because of difficulty, and play their BBs from the back line to avoid submarines, meaning battles will just be sub v sub in cap circles?

Edited by Grygus_Triss

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29 minutes ago, Jack_Sparrow_95 said:

Let BB counter BB, grab your Conqueror/Thunderer and start farming fire :Smile_trollface:

^ this. If you can't beat them, join them.

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13 minutes ago, Jack_Sparrow_95 said:

Let BB counter BB, grab your Conqueror/Thunderer and start farming fire :Smile_trollface:

I'll take mini-me (Zao)

Yeah BB population is high atm.

I dropped down to mid tiers to get away from endless overmatch and the BB population was high in low and mid tiers too.

Expect more of it moving into the silly season!

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But.... Most of the credit farming ships are BBs!

Tell WG to make Swiftsure, or any other high tier cruisers, and stop making BBs as premium ships. And yes that includes the italian BB line, and that stupid & overrated cat Yamashiro. WG can shove those pastas up where the sun doesn't shine!

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made DD and Cruiser able to fight and work as they mean to be , but will WG do it, which mean it will put their pampered CV and money grabbing BB in jeopardy .. wager the answer would be .... hmmm .. !!!!

Edited by Mechfori

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I only have Alsace at those tiers though.... But I'm putting most of my time for other lines now. Currently grinding some credits for those other lines.

23 minutes ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

WG can shove those pastas up where the sun doesn't shine!

Geez that's what the angry Brits yell whenever something upsets them..... Change the pasta with any object, and you are one step closer to be the Queen's subject:Smile_trollface:

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39 minutes ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

But.... Most of the credit farming ships are BBs!

Tell WG to make Swiftsure, or any other high tier cruisers, and stop making BBs as premium ships. And yes that includes the italian BB line, and that stupid & overrated cat Yamashiro. WG can shove those pastas up where the sun doesn't shine!

More high tier CLs, CA and DDs.

Not super cruisers, or stupid things like Smolensk or Colbert.

Something like a British Heavy that’s actually good but still balanced would be nice.

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There are a lot of BBs you say?

Time to tow out my rusty, 24.8 km Hindenburg

 

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BB's are designed to be fairly simple and comfortable to play, so it's to be expected that they have consistently the highest population.  It's been a bit crazy lately though.

I personally think some balance changes are necessary, and I would significantly buff torp range on all DD's, as well as slightly buff torp concealment on some DD's.  BB players need to feel a bit more threatened to encourage them to play other classes a bit more.

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I ain't stopping playing my Alsace until she elites :Smile-_tongue: 20k xp to go, so it isn't a very long time. I also need her to complete a mission in the Enoch campaign.

 

Quote

BBs should be given incentives to engage in CQC.

dejiko and I came to the same idea of applying penalties for very long shots for all ship types - I suggested 80% of main gun range (soft) -and- 20km+ (hard), while dejiko insisted on a percentage, dropping sigma and increasing dispersion significantly, making very long-ranged shots completely pointless.

Brawling BBs (German and, to an extent, French and Japanese ones) should get better protection (consumable perhaps) to incentivize and engage in CQC and to deal with kiters. Basically, getting in secondary range faster, getting out of fights faster and being largely immune/resistant to long-ranged attacks.

Captain rework includes a probably big buff to BB's secondary, but it's still WiP so I'd only mention it here.

 

Edited by Paladinum

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1 hour ago, Moggytwo said:

BB players need to feel a bit more threatened to encourage them to play other classes a bit more.

Release the Asashios!

1 hour ago, Paladinum said:

 I also need her to complete a mission in the Enoch campaign.

😏

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4 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

BB's are designed to be fairly simple and comfortable to play, so it's to be expected that they have consistently the highest population.  It's been a bit crazy lately though.

I personally think some balance changes are necessary, and I would significantly buff torp range on all DD's, as well as slightly buff torp concealment on some DD's.  BB players need to feel a bit more threatened to encourage them to play other classes a bit more.

while I do agree with you in principle, I say it would not really help much , this game had a faulted mechanism and a faulted reward system, so long the game reward damage dealing main and nothing else, it will be the easy to play, high alpha damage, and also consistently able to get to deal those high figure damage BB that people will keep playing, but its a game, so it should be fair to all, the other class simply are not fashioned with the mean to deal equal amount of damage consistently so with same level of effectiveness and efficiency, certainly not DD with their long reload of torp and yet the lowest % of hit ratio , not the CL who now can only resort to HE spamming from range ( cause if the ever try to pus out, they got over-matched by all the new and OP 456, 460,510 and so ) , and not even the CA with their 203 which do nothing against BB with thick armor at 15, 16 or even 20KM away , and of course anything else the game just do not reward accordingly ...

Not to mention all the negative incentive placed on the DD, CL, CA for doing their so call team play / tactical play  , I just had a read on some of my screen-shoot I took this last few days , I mean most of the time the number of BB in queue alone is more than the combined sum of Cruiser, DD and CV .. go figure

Edited by Mechfori
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Use BB in the game, but player plays Cr playstyle.

Once spotted, make a hard u-turn and flee. :Smile_facepalm:

CV or no CV.

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Nothing to worry about, with BB inflating the team HP pool, the wet dream of 400k a match might just come true again :Smile_trollface:.

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[content removed]  wargaming for their ARP Yamatos.

Profanity. Post edited, user warned.

~Beaufighter

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I play a lot of BBs, so I feel what you are talking about. I really really really like Vittorio Veneto and the other Italian BBs. 

Curious if you guys think implementing submarines will change BB gameplay. Thoughts? 

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Ooops... I pick a wrong time to grind on my Izumo to get the Yamato... :Smile_hiding:

Edited by Sharr_Dextera
Not the ARP one...

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On 11/18/2020 at 2:17 AM, DavkVoice said:

[content removed]  wargaming for their ARP Yamatos.

LOL. Thats a tad harsh mate.

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4 hours ago, mademoisail said:

I play a lot of BBs, so I feel what you are talking about. I really really really like Vittorio Veneto and the other Italian BBs. 

Curious if you guys think implementing submarines will change BB gameplay. Thoughts? 

Bruh,no and dont its just adding another problem, lot of player already upset with cv...

Let submarine in different matchmaking and game mode

Edited by Gesterbein

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4 hours ago, mademoisail said:

Curious if you guys think implementing submarines will change BB gameplay. Thoughts? 

It depends on the inter-class balance of subs vs BB's at higher tiers.  With what we've seen, they probably don't have the range to have a real effect on BB's, or in particular the BB population.  The way sub test battles play out is most definitely not the same as the way random battles play out, with BB's generally being happy to sit in positions where subs would have limited effect on them.  That will only be exacerbated at the higher tiers where the effective range of a BB is a fair bit higher.  If subs genuinely counter BB's that would be a good thing, but I feel it's unlikely it will end up being this way.

I think subs will likely have a generally positive effect on the meta, with them taking over a few jobs from DD's (they are much better at capping, and quite good at spotting, while being more able to mitigate incoming damage if they are unexpectedly spotted), and actually making the lives of DD's easier.  This should help the DD population as they become a bit more comfortable to play for the average player.

Note that BB's have by far the highest effective health, having the biggest health pools and plenty of heals.  That means that anything that is actually effective at countering BB's should have the highest damage in the game.  What we see though, is that BB's actually have the highest average damage in the game, significantly higher than cruisers and CV's, who are at a similar level of average damage, both being well below BB levels.  What this effectively means, is that nothing actually counters BB's, except perhaps BB's themselves.  This is a bit like the situation in the game pre-radar where the only thing that really countered a DD was another DD.  WG considered this unacceptable and introduced radar to provide a direct ability for the ship that was supposed to be the counter class to DD's to have a way to actually spot them and thus hurt them.  I'm a DD main, but I still think this was an improvement to the game as a concept.  Yet here we are over five years into the game, and BB's still don't have a real counter.

DD's are supposed to be somewhat of a counter to BB's, with torpedoes being the agent of that counter.  Yet if you look at the average damage of DD's (especially torp boats), you'll find they have well under half the average damage of BB's at the same tier!  If they actually countered BB's, they should have the highest average damage in the game, and yet they are by a massive margin the lowest.

There were over 200 BB's in the tier 10 queue on SEA last night.  Two hundred!  There are five BB's per team every single battle, and I've been seeing some MM dumps with more than that recently as well.  Clearly there is a population problem, and it has been going on for a while.  I take my BB's out reasonably often (I'm still loving Odin in particular, what a great ship), and they are just so comfortable to play.  I never feel particularly threatened in them, with the thought of imminent death being only a small mistake away as it is in DD's or cruisers.  So long as I don't really stuff up my positioning I can completely dictate how much damage I will take, plus I have a ton of alpha available that I can almost instantly apply at significant effective ranges.

It's too comfortable.  It's not balanced.  This is why the population is where it is.  BB's need that threat of imminent death if they make a mistake, and it needs to be primarily at the hands of a class that isn't BB's, and isn't cruisers, so that leaves a combination of DD's and/or subs and/or CV's.  WG need to start moving the game in that direction, or the problem will continue to grow.

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1 hour ago, lunsmann said:

LOL. Thats a tad harsh mate.

But not as harsh as the comments flying about one of your clan-mates in a game this morning. In a Shima, sailing around with the BBs at the back of the map. He out-spotted all the enemy dds by a large margin.

Its not pretty when a lot of the BB players don't seem to have any idea how to play beyond shoot at extreme range.

Implementing subs will not change gameplay of most BB players because they stay so far back that subs won't be a threat to them. They don't seem capable of even comprehending the mechanics of winning a game besides killing all. Some I wonder if they even know that the game can be won, or if it is just a shooting game.

Last night we were 3 caps down, a long way behind in points, but enemy only had I was capping A. 7 of our ships (5 BB and 2 CA) sailed right past B cap to arrive at A cap just as the enemy CV took me out. There were lots of comments in game about capping B but they literally sailed right past it.

Then they slowly turned around and sailed back to cap it. Was incredible that the enemy didn't just run away, and instead sail close enough to let themselves be killed so we somehow got a last second win.

With BBs playing like that, subs will just be something else which surprises them when it does damage, and reinforces their notions that the red line is the place to be. 

Maybe these goats are playing BBs.......

 

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