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Ashen_Sky

Admiral Hipper and Prinz Eugen's armor thickness inaccuracy

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I think this issue is quite unique, and probably needs more exposure so i create a new topic as opposed to hijacking the other thread on Vittorio Veneto.

Inb4 someone make Hipper = flat joke, i'll make sure to tag @Max_Battle to detain and beat the hell out of them.

Anyway,


Admiral Hipper and Prinz Eugen (and by extension, Mainz) has different armored deck or "turtleback" thickness in-game.

Supposedly, the class have either 30 mm or 50 mm, depending on source, with the former being the most likely threshold.

v8DDzVA.png

imhW69V.png

Meanwhile, in-game values showed the following:

686968010_Screenshot(1174).png.699148de7

1022853237_Screenshot(1175).png.8f11b061

1005049389_Screenshot(1176).png.b4ec2739

Admiral Hipper has the arguably correct 30 mm thickness, while Prinz Eugen and Mainz shows 40 mm somehow.

Why does this matter, Mr. Earl? It's just 10 mm difference, no real implications right?

Wrong

The differing thickness means that Admiral Hipper's 30 mm armored deck can be overmatched by caliber of at least 431 mm (Republique) at any range, while Prinz Eugen and Mainz's cannot at closer range. Not only that, this makes the former technically weaker for a cruiser that does not have heal nor raw DPM, and rely not being citadeled during a close-quarters battle courtesy of the turtleback. Supposedly, all members of the class shares the same armor values as her (even when Prinz Eugen is technically a sub-class due to some minor modification), yet somehow this doesn't apply in-game.

Admiral Hipper, while serviceable in her own right, does suffer due to her extraordinarily large superstructure which caught full penetration most of the time, and thus to mitigate damage practically against battleships during close quarters (other than dodging) is to broadside and let the turtleback deflect shots from the citadel upwards and outside the ship (also applies to her sisters) for overpenetrations, however this difference of thickness led her to be more limited in choice as she can still be reliably citadeled, while her sisters rarely do and has heal in case of Prinz Eugen.

What to do? Either nerf Prinz Eugen and Mainz's value to 30 mm and thus a bit more historical, or buff Hipper's to be 40 mm (less ideal choice).

*sidenote: While it could be argued that Admiral Hipper's thinner deck is to compensate the fact that she has a complete bow plating compared to Prinz Eugen, i don't think this is a fair trade, as the latter's bow plating is practically the same when slightly angled, and thus the former's advantage in this is negligible at best.

**additional note: Admiral Hipper in real life does indeed have 40-50 mm deck thickness, however it's only on specific points like the magazines, not uniform as Prinz Eugen's model suggest. So it could be suggested that these non-uniform thickness be represented as some sort of compromise.


TL;DR Hipper has more historical armor thickness while Eugen does not, making the former weaker in comparison. Nerf Eugen's or buff Hipper's.

Edited by Earl_of_Arland
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Lets add moar complaint.

Model Issue of Vittorio Veneto which i kinda hate.

and Earl of Arland's vast knowledge of German Armor Scheme.

Looks like we both are in common for inaccuracies now.

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"HUUUHHHH?!? Who gave them the permission to get my armor scheme wrong?!?"

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2 hours ago, rookieFTW said:

We can't nerf Eugen, so let's buff Hipper XD

Actually yes. Maybe buff Hipper's thickness to 50 mm in order to compensate the lack of heal, but keep Eugen & Mainz' thickness at 40 mm.

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21 minutes ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

Actually yes. Maybe buff Hipper's thickness to 50 mm in order to compensate the lack of heal, but keep Eugen & Mainz' thickness at 40 mm.

Buffing to 50 mm doesn't do much difference than 40 mm as there's no overmatch above 38 mm or something.

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I'd love to back you up Earl but from what I've read up on, Warships frequently changes armour values and things for game balance...

So you could argue that along those lines, there's no issue.

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8 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

I'd love to back you up Earl but from what I've read up on, Warships frequently changes armour values and things for game balance...

So you could argue that along those lines, there's no issue.

I'm still questioning on why it's Prinz Eugen that has a thicker value while also having heal compared to Admiral Hipper. For the sake of balance maybe, but shouldn't it be the other way since the latter doesn't have heal and thus need the thicker value?

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1 hour ago, S4pp3R said:

I'd love to back you up Earl but from what I've read up on, Warships frequently changes armour values and things for game balance...

So you could argue that along those lines, there's no issue.

 

dredd_hipper.jpg

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Honestly, since Hipper has been pounded heavily as of late. Buffing her back would n't be so bad. Then again, it's up to the Devs; either they would listen or choose not to.

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5 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

 

dredd_hipper.jpg

That's ok, I've always liked it rough...

Nothing like a man in authority dressed in leather...

Sorry, couldn't resist, but I do like to resist... Oh dear god this joke has gone too far. Someone stop me!

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@mademoisail excuse me, but i'd like to know why this is the case, especially the fact that Prinz Eugen receives arguably better armor and heal compared to her tech tree counterpart while exchanging few in terms of slightly slower rate of fire?

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33 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

@mademoisail excuse me, but i'd like to know why this is the case, especially the fact that Prinz Eugen receives arguably better armor and heal compared to her tech tree counterpart while exchanging few in terms of slightly slower rate of fire?

Admiral Hipper also has slightly faster rudder shift comparing with her Premium sister (and other three half-sisters). They were given these two different buffs back to a patch during the 0.7 Patches period I recall.

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