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IJN_Katori

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Throw the shitty dev/game tester idea before bring more unpleasant gameplay

 

CheeryJubilantAnaconda.gif

Edited by THAI_THIEF

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Yeah pretty funny tbh...

I'm looking at the animation cancel with CVs with trepidation, can anyone confirm/deny whether it opens up exploit loops, animation cancelling in game is usually a buff to whoever can do it

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Of course it isn't popular. Players need FXP to grind through lines, and they put FXP in as reward for grinding through lines. It's too stupid even as a suggestion. Surely some players can see the value, but grinding FXP with a T9 prem is waaaaaaaaaaaay more efficient than re-grinding lines.

It is stupid and counter-intuitive that it must have been a 1 IQ moment when WG put it there.

Edited by Paladinum
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I think it may have been aimed at players like me.

I have 11,200 points, have never re-grinded a line and never will.

But once a month a mission gives us 400 points, that's 4800 a yr.

Will never get enough to buy a ship.......hmm what else could I get....oh look 250k free xp for doing nothing. 

Not popular with WGs marketing I am guessing

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Wait. 12500 RB points for 250k fxp?  That is so much cheaper than using 600k + fxp to reset a line. I better get in quick then LOL I only need 20k RB points to secure Slava.

 

Never mind. It's the opposite. I am potato.

Edited by lunsmann
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Wait... Does this mean that if EVERYTHING in the RB is unpopular, RB will be removed?

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I actually bought the FXP, and used them to skip Albemarle (I hate that thing). I consider it a good skip because Drake turns out to be much more enjoyable than that T8 Abomination.

Yes I could have just ground through it in Co-Op. But I value my time over the efficiency of the slow grind in Co-Op. That of course is the reason I managed to get a lot of T10 ships even when there are huge speed bumps along the way like Seattle, Albemarle, etc. Sure I should have had ships like Alaska if I did not waste my FXP to skip the crappy ships. But I don't really care if I miss them.

No I did not reset the lines. My RB points built up constantly at 1200 per month. And because I never spent the initial 10k RB points, I only had to wait 3 months to buy the FXP.

Edited by Reinhard_of_Avercland

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9 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Wait... Does this mean that if EVERYTHING in the RB is unpopular, RB will be removed?

There is no way Ohio or Slava or Siegfried or even Emilio is unpopular though.

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RB is prestige content...

It's there for people who have everything they want...

So they put ships and unwanted modules in there... ... ...

Why not cool, customisable cosmetics that display said prestige.

Look at WoT, marks of excellence are what pros farm, it's a cosmetic, a bragging right.

Make RB the same thing... ... ...

Anyways I'm sounding like a broken record, you guys know my thoughts.

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42 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

RB is prestige content...

It's there for people who have everything they want...

So they put ships and unwanted modules in there... ... ...

Why not cool, customisable cosmetics that display said prestige.

Look at WoT, marks of excellence are what pros farm, it's a cosmetic, a bragging right.

Make RB the same thing... ... ...

Anyways I'm sounding like a broken record, you guys know my thoughts.

This is the song that never ends. Yes, it goes on and on my friends... Some people start to sing it not knowing what it is. And they go on singing it on and on.

This is the song that never ends. Yes, it goes on and on my friends!!! Some people start to sing it not knowing what it is. And they go on singing it on and on.

This is the song that never ends.......

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NOOOOOOOOO

   DO NOT REMOVE THAT!

if its doesnt popular buff it to 500 free XP.... so you can get Smalland by regrind 4x

 

i will happily regrind French DD 24/7 with just phew phew phew than collecting 2  000 000 free XP..... 

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While I am no fan of the RB, I dislike removing options from players even more..

Why did WG remove this? If this option is unpopular then just leave it there for those people who do use it. Removing this just limits the amounts of things a player can do with their Research Points.

I will never understand the rationale of removing options in the digital space just because they are unpopular. Sure, it makes sense to do so if you are running a physical store or service, but for digital goods and services? I am not expert in the field, but I am pretty sure the act of converting RB into Free XP does not take up a lot of server power.

14 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

I'm looking at the animation cancel with CVs with trepidation, can anyone confirm/deny whether it opens up exploit loops, animation cancelling in game is usually a buff to whoever can do it 

Since cancelling the animation also cancels the damage immunity period, it will not always be beneficial to do this.

The only benefit I can think of right now is if the CV player wants to press F to recall the squadrons immediately after launching their ordnance, perhaps to avoid their planes flying further into enemy AA behind the target ship or to avoid straying into the close-range AA of the ship they are attacking.

Edited by Thyaliad
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40 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

While I am no fan of the RB, I dislike removing options from players even more..

Why did WG remove this? If this option is unpopular then just leave it there for those people who do use it. Removing this just limits the amounts of things a player can do with their Research Points.

I will never understand the rationale of removing options in the digital space just because they are unpopular. Sure, it makes sense to do so if you are running a physical store or service, but for digital goods and services? I am not expert in the field, but I am pretty sure the act of converting RB into Free XP does not take up a lot of server power.

Sadly WoWs team's rational is always 180° nowadays.

Before 2019:
Listens to player feedback and criticism.
If it is unpopular, its unpopular and will remove it.
If it is popular, its popular and will not remove it.

After 2019:
Does not listen to player feedback and criticism. (You go to gulag. hehehe.)
If it is popular, its unpopular and will remove it.
If it is unpopular, its popular and will not remove it.

Its like, some of WoWs team is:
1631863183_180owl.thumb.jpg.69701a6127355e53f053c5b1a6c12936.jpg

Edited by S0und_Theif
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7 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:
7 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Sadly WoWs team's rational is always 180° nowadays.

Before 2019:
Listens to player feedback and criticism.
If it is unpopular, its unpopular and will remove it.
If it is popular, its popular and will not remove it.

After 2019:
Does not listen to player feedback and criticism. (You go to gulag. hehehe.)
If it is popular, its unpopular and will remove it.
If it is unpopular, its popular and will not remove it.
 

Well, if that were true, I am not sure why I would be here. :cap_tea:

I am really interested in what you guys have to say about the Research Bureau. That being said, I want to make it clear we are changing and adding to the game because we care about it and want to see it grow. We love WoWs, too, and we appreciate your feedback and suggestions a lot. 

Thanks for going through these changes and updates with us. 

o7

-Sail

 

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21 hours ago, mademoisail said:

Well, if that were true, I am not sure why I would be here. :cap_tea:

To be fair, you and the NA team were recent in Asia server.

Most of the time there is no interaction with WG and the playerbase / community in Asia server.
(I can not say the same for others, as I am only 2.5 years into this game. Some of the veterans can have different opinions. As for me, there is a certain time where we have voiced out our opposition to research bureau, falls on deaf ears.)

So you have to understand that some players felt that their voices were never heard and felt abandoned.

Research Bureau is one of the few things that the playerbase / community despise in the game.

 

21 hours ago, mademoisail said:

I am really interested in what you guys have to say about the Research Bureau. That being said, I want to make it clear we are changing and adding to the game because we care about it and want to see it grow. We love WoWs, too, and we appreciate your feedback and suggestions a lot. 

Thanks for going through these changes and updates with us.

Many (if not all) the playerbase / community do no like the idea of reseting / regrinding / recrawling the tech tree they have accomplished.
It is especially difficult to grind through from T7 - T10.

Not to mention that it requires players to unlock 5 tier 10 tech tree lines in order for them to gain access to the research bureau.
If the player is a focused player, that player can unlock one tier 10 ship in a matter of months. (Player is F2P and is not a bot user.)
If the player is a jack-of-all-trades, that player will try all nation and or classes of ships. (Player is F2P and is not a bot user.)
What ever the case, that player will still take years to unlock the Research Bureau. (Player is not 100% NEET and is not a bot user.)

Also, the playerbase / community do not like how the mechanic "will sell all your ships" just to reset the tech tree.
Not even Activition (Starcraft 2 and Call of Duty) is that cruel to their playerbase / community. Even though they are also one of the hated gaming company, they make the reset reasonable.

 

Some of us feel that we are also discriminated with how WoWs team suddenly gave away the research points in the dockyard when they P2A (pay to advance) but free to play (F2P) players could not even participate in collecting the resource in daily challenge.

image.thumb.png.da816af0c6491d3ee82ec1aeabbc2ef3.png

image.thumb.png.ea420721ddf4969e00027c9bbf9fe5a3.png

Steel I can let it slide, since player can access the armory. New or veteran.
But players who has no access to Research Bureau but pays to advance can collect the resource while free to play players (let alone new players) are left in the dust.
We feel discriminated and the game becomes more P2A rather than F2P game.

 

As for the rewards, we don't like ships being rewards in the research bureau. To some extent, the Unique Upgrades. (It fulfills the original plan of Naval Training Center where players reset their tech tree to gain buff [Unique Upgrades].)
Cosmetics / camouflage is ok. It is bragging rights that the player has a high degree of skill or has been playing for years. But ships (and upgrades), no.

 

Research Bureau is a bad mechanic that it is despised by the playerbase / community second only to the Puerto Rico.

 

I have put my suggestion and feedback on 0.9.5, 0.9.6, 0.9.7(?) and 0.9.9 in the asia forums.
I also have put my suggestion and feedback here:

 

Tagging @S4pp3R, @Paladinum, you may have other feedback and suggestion regarding the Research Bureau.

 

 

Also see you and the NA team later at the stream. :Smile_smile:

Sadly, at the stream time, I am already running on fumes and need to hit the sack. :Smile_sad:

I will watch the replay.

And much obliged for listening to our feedbacks. o7

Edited by S0und_Theif
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6 hours ago, mademoisail said:

Well, if that were true, I am not sure why I would be here. :cap_tea:

I am really interested in what you guys have to say about the Research Bureau. That being said, I want to make it clear we are changing and adding to the game because we care about it and want to see it grow. We love WoWs, too, and we appreciate your feedback and suggestions a lot. 

Thanks for going through these changes and updates with us. 

o7

-Sail

Well in that case this may take a while for me to summarise, I have a video on it but it's older and heavy with language so figured writing it would be better...

This is also from my phone so forgive any spelling and punctuation issues.

The problem with the Research Bureau is at it's core twofold; content and desire. And within the realms of 'content' there needs to be an understanding of who actually regrinds to get RP to understand desire.

At the moment the only reason people regrind is to access the ships, even then they aren't particularly exclusive. I mean I enjoy playing all tiers and I haven't even bothered, I have enough lines to play as is.

So those regrinding will fall into two categories; those that want the ships and those who have nothing better to do so are doing it to get ships they don't really want.

Both don't have a large incentive to regrind because of the time involved and the reward at the end.

Firstly, UUs are stupid and should not be a thing, Yamatos is about the only straight upgrade left aside from a couple of 50-50s, so remove that from our minds as content.

So we are left with signals and FXP as things to purchase. Both are a waste of RP. Some may wish to buy FXP with RP but objectively there are better ways to get it. Signals you can get with creds so that's pointless too.

So basically there is no low or medium cost content to start with.

Without content, we don't get desire and we don't get anything more than 'something to do'. Even that isn't much with the rate that ship lines are released or the relentless barrage of events we get.

The easiest content and the one that makes the most sense to put in there is cosmetics. People like cool looking things but they also need individuality, bragging rights and a need.

Implement a cosmetics prestige system, RP system is basically a prestige system anyways and many games do prestige cosmetics, it keeps players engaged long after they stopped caring about content drops.

 

So what does it look like?

Set a reasonable cost for a base-camo that's unique enough to the others in game that it's at least recognisable. My suggestion is something like a Black camo but obviously a little different so you guys can still sell Black containers.

This Camo should cost around 1 regrind, or maybe a x2... Not important but it needs to be in the mid-range price.

You can only put the camo on 1 ship in a line you've regrinded (completed).

The camo should function like any perma-camo, but not as good as most premium ships.

Second time you can purchase something you can choose to do another permacamo thing on 1 ship, or you can add your first accent colour.

The trick with accents is to allow them to have a degree of customisation, my suggestion is colours and decal style. The pattern should be recognisable, at least to know there's one accent.

You can only apply this accent on a ship with the RP camo and on a line that's at least been regrinded twice.

Now when you see that ship you know that person has regrinded that line twice, and that they love that one ship more than anything. Not to mention it looks bad-ass... Maybe it's a big red chevron or two on cool black ship...

Keep going... Maximum decals/accents should be 3-4, depending on the complexity. After that have a certain thing or particular smaller decal to indicate increments. A star, lines, whatevs, at this point it should be like a mark of excellence (WoT) in visual weight.

The whole thing becomes prestige cosmetics, slightly customisable (exclusivity) and visually bragging.

Best bit, it's already monetised via people using FXP to get regrinds done.

It's in the mid-price range so peeps have something to spend on.

It encourages people to regrind and not just earn free RP to get it.

 

Conclusion

Cosmetics for RP makes sense. At the very least the Research Bureau needs A LOT more content as there simply isn't anything in there worth purchasing.

Regrinding is an end-game thing, people who do it are doing it for lack of other things to do or because they want a niche ship. Either way, most who I know who have done it aren't driven to complete it but it's a side project and a neglected one.

 

This is a rough outline Sail but I hope that gives you something...

Edited by S4pp3R
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know what , WG , pls look into RPG games, regrind is nothing new in those online games, but regrinding a  line in WOWS brings NOTHING, NOTHING .. ok and that is why people simply will not do it, its everything bad about the regrinding without the positive reward to compensate

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11 hours ago, mademoisail said:

Well, if that were true, I am not sure why I would be here. :cap_tea:

I am really interested in what you guys have to say about the Research Bureau. That being said, I want to make it clear we are changing and adding to the game because we care about it and want to see it grow. We love WoWs, too, and we appreciate your feedback and suggestions a lot. 

Thanks for going through these changes and updates with us. 

o7

-Sail

 

I actually like the old concept where you get Superbuffed ships until Level 3

 

and now

 

 

Its a crappy EA function that you need research points for nothing.

very sad.

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13 hours ago, mademoisail said:

Well, if that were true, I am not sure why I would be here. :cap_tea:

I am really interested in what you guys have to say about the Research Bureau. That being said, I want to make it clear we are changing and adding to the game because we care about it and want to see it grow. We love WoWs, too, and we appreciate your feedback and suggestions a lot. 

Thanks for going through these changes and updates with us. 

o7

-Sail

The whole thing is a massive whale bait, because it is designed for the maximum number of nuisance that can be easily get through by paying real money:

+ Selling ships at 50% price;

+ Paying doubloon to dismount upgrades;

+ Converting FXP to pull through any ship that isn't enjoyable;

Which, mind you, I don't have much of an issue with a feature in a F2P being a whalebait (still far better than random bundles) and again, this whole feature is definitely intended and designed to be a real money sink for certain players.

My biggest issue with it is that if I ever choose to re-grind a line, I must be selling all the ships in that line to grind for them again. I WANT TO KEEP MY SHIPS, as this is a game not just about warships fighting each other, but also about having the biggest fleet possible. Selling ships is absolutely counter-intuitive in this game.

The second very counter-intuitive thing is Unique/Legendary Upgrades. Before, it required players to play the T10 ship they have to get the UU for that ship. This is great, the more I play, the more I would get better with that ship, when I get the UU my gameplay with that ship would be even better. Now I may play any line just to get one for a ship that isn't in the line!

The 1200 RP I would get per month I spend all on signal flags.

 

If you ever read the comments in the YouTube video of the RB, you know how the community sees it.

Spoilers: they HATE it.

Edited by Paladinum
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On 10/28/2020 at 11:02 AM, Paladinum said:

There is no way Ohio or Slava or Siegfried or even Emilio is unpopular though.

Exactly.  There are some pretty decent ships in there.  I absolutely love Yolo Emilio, it is ridiculously fun to play, although requires a decent level of skill to actually be successful in.  It's the perfect ship for something like Research Bureau because of this.

 

11 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

The problem with the Research Bureau is at it's core twofold; content and desire. And within the realms of 'content' there needs to be an understanding of who actually regrinds to get RP to understand desire.

At the moment the only reason people regrind is to access the ships, even then they aren't particularly exclusive. I mean I enjoy playing all tiers and I haven't even bothered, I have enough lines to play as is.

So those regrinding will fall into two categories; those that want the ships and those who have nothing better to do so are doing it to get ships they don't really want.

Both don't have a large incentive to regrind because of the time involved and the reward at the end.

Firstly, UUs are stupid and should not be a thing, Yamatos is about the only straight upgrade left aside from a couple of 50-50s, so remove that from our minds as content.

So we are left with signals and FXP as things to purchase. Both are a waste of RP. Some may wish to buy FXP with RP but objectively there are better ways to get it. Signals you can get with creds so that's pointless too.

So basically there is no low or medium cost content to start with.

Without content, we don't get desire and we don't get anything more than 'something to do'. Even that isn't much with the rate that ship lines are released or the relentless barrage of events we get.

The easiest content and the one that makes the most sense to put in there is cosmetics. People like cool looking things but they also need individuality, bragging rights and a need.

Implement a cosmetics prestige system, RP system is basically a prestige system anyways and many games do prestige cosmetics, it keeps players engaged long after they stopped caring about content drops.

I understand where you are coming from, although I don't really agree with you.

Firstly, I think the UU's are desirable content, they are reasonably well balanced in not being an upgrade, but I do think they fill their role of providing an alternate play style option.  If that alternate play style option fits the way you personally like to play the ship, then they are definitely a worth while purchase.  RB is a good place for them because of this, since UU's are mainly only useful to the more experienced player who understands the nuances of what they will be purchasing.

As for regrinding for the ships, I didn't participate to begin with in regrinds, because I thought it sounded like a crappy idea, but then I decided early this year that I might like to replay the RN DD line because I quite enjoy those ships, so why not reset it and play through and get some RP along with it.  What I found was, I actually had a great time!  I loved playing through the Lightning again, it made me play a ship that I loved more, and it was overall so much fun that I reset the line again once I'd finished and ground them all out again straight away.  I then waited a month or two after finishing that for the next double points, and decided to reset both Russian DD lines at once.  I had a brilliant time again going up them as well!  Kiev, Tashkent, Udaloi - all such brilliant ships, and once again it motivated me to play ships I love but don't actually play often.  After that I had so many Research Points that I could afford a UU and Yolo Emilio (such an amazing and unique ship), and still have 20k left over.  In a couple of weeks I'm likely going to reset the Russian DD lines again when the x2 is reset.

Overall, despite being initially pretty ambivalent towards the RB, I have actually been enjoying it once I started.  So long as you pick lines where you like the tier 8 and 9 a lot, and don't try and do too much too quickly, it's a pretty positive thing.  It's also entirely optional.

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1 hour ago, Moggytwo said:

Overall, despite being initially pretty ambivalent towards the RB, I have actually been enjoying it once I started.  So long as you pick lines where you like the tier 8 and 9 a lot, and don't try and do too much too quickly, it's a pretty positive thing.  It's also entirely optional.

I have regrinded, at least once, although probably twice given my RP...

I am not against regrinding, in fact I'm definitely the target audience given I love all my ships, love playing mid tiers and love progression.

I have no reason to though.

UUs, I can't agree, at all. 'Alternative gameplay options' translates to 'sub-optimal' in most circumstances. Basically, go play a ship with that style is a better idea as you will get more out of it.

So let me ask; do you disagree with my cosmetics idea then? Or my assertions about RB?

Because I'm sorry but if you think there's enough content in there for people I can't even respect that point of view because even for most people, there isn't much 'must have' or 'really want' content outside a couple of ships if you want that niche.

Even then, low to mid price point, still not a lot on offer.

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21 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

Because I'm sorry but if you think there's enough content in there for people I can't even respect that point of view because even for most people, there isn't much 'must have' or 'really want' content outside a couple of ships if you want that niche.

Even then, low to mid price point, still not a lot on offer.

That actually depends on what players want. Different people want different things. I think that being able to have the name of the ship painted visibly on her sides is way too cool to pass up, but that isn't even a thing in this game. I also think that if I grind the German CR line, I get something that only those ships can use is very neat. But I can only get only one that is for only one ship. Is it wrong for me to want that UU available on ALL of my German CRs instead of just Hinden?

If UUs are meant for provide changes to how I or you play a ship, then a ship should have more than 1 UU - one to buff the intended playstyle, the others to change to different playstyles drastically. Say, a brawler Montana or a flamethrower Shimakaze. I won't say this is a must, this is a mere idea that I don't even think is worth it.

 

I wouldn't even actively consider doing a re-grind unless I get to keep my ships.

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Is this world of warships or world of rpg? Because rpg bureau makes it sound more like world of disgaea.

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