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OMG Kansas is terrible

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Way worse than NC or any other T8 BB. 

- slow in speed and reload. Feels like I'm wasting my time

- terrible AP pen; feels like mutsu's AP and slow shells

- quite ugly imo

Will definitely not grind the line.

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Gotta be honest. I would take you a lot more seriously if you were not the guy who thinks Moskva needs a buff.

I mean, you could be right here, but its difficult to take your assessment seriously.

Now @S4pp3R He's someone who I trust to give a fair assessment.

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There are some threads in the forum that talk about Kansas' problems. But here's the oversimplified recap of them:

  • Kansas had her sigma nerfed right before her release date.
  • Vermont'ts deck armor had been buffed, no longer vulnerable to HE spam from most cruisers.
  • Vermont's speed buff was a lie.
  • The entire line is designed to be slow. Both at moving & reloading the guns.

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6 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Now @S4pp3R He's someone who I trust to give a fair assessment.

Shux, thanks mate!

I'm working as fast as I can, should have her unlocked sometime between now and Tuesday and will post preliminary thoughts in here for those who are wondering.

I'm at a LAN on the weekend or I would have it done sooner, got 2/6 to go an am at like 75% on them.

5 hours ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

There are some threads in the forum that talk about Kansas' problems. But here's the oversimplified recap of them:

  • Kansas had her sigma nerfed right before her release date.
  • Vermont'ts deck armor had been buffed, no longer vulnerable to HE spam from most cruisers.
  • Vermont's speed buff was a lie.
  • The entire line is designed to be slow. Both at moving & reloading the guns.

The question becomes can it be combat effective given those conditions. I would tentatively argue yes, if positioned well.

Most BBs at T8-10 spend half the game not moving that much anyways, or not moving areas much. If your positional play is good the argument is you can be where you need to be when you need to be.

The biggest question (I think) will be whether this means you end up being CV food.

Colorado is slow and she can still do fine in T9 matches if you know what you are doing.

But we'll see. I have ST friends who actually don't mind them but would choose to play other BBs.

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4 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

Shux, thanks mate!

I'm working as fast as I can, should have her unlocked sometime between now and Tuesday and will post preliminary thoughts in here for those who are wondering.

I'm at a LAN on the weekend or I would have it done sooner, got 2/6 to go an am at like 75% on them.

The question becomes can it be combat effective given those conditions. I would tentatively argue yes, if positioned well.

Most BBs at T8-10 spend half the game not moving that much anyways, or not moving areas much. If your positional play is good the argument is you can be where you need to be when you need to be.

The biggest question (I think) will be whether this means you end up being CV food.

Colorado is slow and she can still do fine in T9 matches if you know what you are doing.

But we'll see. I have ST friends who actually don't mind them but would choose to play other BBs.

it took me just under a day to grind through in Coops to get Kansas.

It is slow and reload is not fantastic, but the plus is that you are not over committing, it is a deliberate beast, you support and pick your targets.

These ships are not for the selfish. And I am sure that there will be one or two who enjoy it, as being their pace and style.

I like it, it slow me down and calms me. Especially in randoms in World of Warships Spectators.

 

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6 hours ago, S4pp3R said:

The biggest question (I think) will be whether this means you end up being CV food.

If I remember correctly, the line is AA heavy plus comes with DFAA as standard which means that you can be a stationary fort in the middle of the water to a certain degree. 

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37 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

If I remember correctly, the line is AA heavy plus comes with DFAA as standard which means that you can be a stationary fort in the middle of the water to a certain degree. 

Yeah. Ship line seems set up to be long range fire support with enough AA to withstand being targeted by CV because you are standing alone.

Maybe I’ll set the ship line up as dedicated AA ships, and lure CVs to waste their attacks on me while I take shots at surface ships from long range.

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1 hour ago, dejiko_nyo said:

If I remember correctly, the line is AA heavy plus comes with DFAA as standard which means that you can be a stationary fort in the middle of the water to a certain degree. 

until Richtoven Come and put 27k every drop.....
or Until FDR/Midway Come and put you 2 fire+15k~20k every drop.... :Smile_trollface:

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6 minutes ago, Gesterbein said:

until Richtoven Come and put 27k every drop.....
or Until FDR/Midway Come and put you 2 fire+15k~20k every drop.... :Smile_trollface:

Good. That will make the player regret playing a slow ass ship alone.

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8 minutes ago, Gesterbein said:

until Richtoven Come and put 27k every drop.....
or Until FDR/Midway Come and put you 2 fire+15k~20k every drop.... :Smile_trollface:

have you tried dropping one of those in a CV. sure you might get a bit of damage but it really isn't worth it to him when there are plenty of other things to drop 

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2 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

If I remember correctly, the line is AA heavy plus comes with DFAA as standard which means that you can be a stationary fort in the middle of the water to a certain degree. 

I actually forgot she has DFAA.

Tried her in co-op for a test drive and shot down 5 Ryujo planes in one pass. That was without DFAA activated.

But it is quite unfair since Ryujo is T6. :fish_book:

 

1 hour ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Yeah. Ship line seems set up to be long range fire support with enough AA to withstand being targeted by CV because you are standing alone.

Maybe I’ll set the ship line up as dedicated AA ships, and lure CVs to waste their attacks on me while I take shots at surface ships from long range.

But also keep in mind that her sigma was nerfed during ST.

I am having a slight difficulty using her on co-op.

 

I think I need to revisit Colorado again before I play Kansas (ahem S. Dakota 1918).

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I think it is safe to say that we have summed up that piloting one of those stationary forts seen in ops (AKA Lancer) is much more exciting than playing these fat slowasses. At least I can quickly put lancer out of his misery when I get the chance.

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I'll add one thing here, unless you are VERY lucky you cannot deal with nose-in ships.

Another is that her shells individually do 11500 damage while North Carolina's do 13500.

And another thing, playing Georgia after this thing brings up only one feeling...

The new Jeremy Clarkson speed format. Invest for the dissapointment I am. :  MemeEconomy

Edited by hurricaneflyer
I can't english
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Quality of life buffs just show the limits how of using spreadsheets to balance ships. There's just certain extreme stats in the name of balans that will never be enjoyable, like how slow shimas turrets used to traverse. Me thinks 24knots at high tier is another trait that will eventually need a quality of life buff.

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9 minutes ago, Watboy said:

Quality of life buffs just show the limits how of using spreadsheets to balance ships.

But but but spreadshits are god! (false ones)

10 minutes ago, Watboy said:

Me thinks 24knots at high tier is another trait that will eventually need a quality of life buff.

In reality, those speeds are okay because IRL, battles are not fought against a timer as in certain "naval simulators". As I was munching in the wolves' discord this morning:
[9:02 AM] dejiko_nyo: HOWEVER in some arcadey simulator, speed DOES matter because time is of the essence
[9:03 AM] dejiko_nyo: you have 20 minutes to complete the objective, not days or weeks or months.
[9:03 AM] dejiko_nyo: it is imperative that you reach your target ASAP
[9:03 AM] dejiko_nyo: slow ships become a liability here

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Kansas - mmmmm to your average Potato Player (exhibit A - myself representing the Potatoes of Wows) -  many negatives, so few positives.

Negatives:

Reload - Slower than a wet long weekend with the in-laws (with no visible escape)

AP - Rubbish damage comparatively to ships of same tier (yes she has more guns but see sigma and dispersion - hits is about the same as tech tree ships so far for me) - Slow Velocity - so range shooting becomes something to completely relearn.

Sigma/dispersion - Not sure how much they nerfed this by before release, but she could do with it back (not withstanding the range shooting and Velocity issues) - Dispersion 299.....not great when added to the sigma and shell velocities

Deck armour - yup 32mm - pretty much all Cruiser's love you - They just fire HE and wait for the BBQ to happen (no need for IFHE here - most HE goes through)

Size/beam - Can't write what I want here, lets just say she comes with her own postcode when it comes to beam - so except more CA/CL hits

Speed - at first I thought this wasn't going to be a Negative, if I positioned right, however its actually a big issue, get inside the range of any CA/CL and you have no hope to break away. Decisions on where you go right at the start of the match have lasting impact on the game, especially  at T10. If you spawn on a flank, you only get one chance to choose where you go, repositioning is not really possible.

Concealment - not the best - even worse when she's burning - as stated before you're a BBQ waiting to happen - and once the CA/CL's have you lit up then you're done.

 

Positives:

HE - Its actually not bad if you can get you shell placement right (see above sigma/dispersion/velocity issues - as HE velocity is also quite slow but better than AP) - Good fire chance when you do hit and does some nice damage early in the game.

Armour - Apart from the deck armour its really not to bad at all if you stay at range.

AA - CV's don't like you at all.......AA with DFAA is quite good at knocking squadrons down.

 

More to report later when I can try her out some more - However I'd love her to get a sigma value of around 1.85 that would help - don't want anything more than that at present, as I still need to learn her

H

Edited by H_87A_2CU
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The last few days have seen all the unicums get their hands on Kansas as the final directive was released. I've never been in a battle and seen one do better than mid-pack on the score. That says to me that either the ship is either terrible, or terribly unfun.

To me it's pretty simple. I don't often play battleships, and when I do 90% of the time I play battlecruiser-types or at least fast battleships like N. Cal, Iowa, Richelieu and JB. New Mexico transposed to high tier holds no appeal whatsoever. That said I don't think the ship is outright bad so much as a late game bloomer. You have to play much more conservatively than most people realize.

 

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1 hour ago, H_87A_2CU said:

Kansas - mmmmm to your average Potato Player (exhibit A - myself representing the Potatoes of Wows) -  many negatives, so few positives.

Negatives:

Reload - Slower than a wet long weekend with the in-laws (with no visible escape)

Deck armour - yup 32mm - pretty much all Cruiser's love you - They just fire HE and wait for the BBQ to happen (no need for IFHE here - most HE goes through)

Size/beam - Can't write what I want here, lets just say she comes with her own postcode when it comes to beam - so except more CA/CL hits

Speed - at first I thought this wasn't going to be a Negative, if I positioned right, however its actually a big issue, get inside the range of any CA/CL and you have no hope to break away. Decisions on where you go right at the start of the match have lasting impact on the game, especially  at T10. If you spawn on a flank, you only get one chance to choose where you go, repositioning is not really possible.

The bits I liked where you were outright frank about the in-laws. 

33 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

That said I don't think the ship is outright bad so much as a late game bloomer. You have to play much more conservatively than most people realize.

I would add, it would be good defensively late game when your team has the upper hand and the other team has to push. If it were late game and your team is behind, well, that slow speed is a huge liability unless the red team decides to throw away their win by attacking. If the game is a stalemate, then yes, by the time you reach somewhere where you are useful, you can make a difference. But then again, why would you want to leave until the last moment to make a difference to the game? To me this line is very specialised and has been pigeonholed into a very rigid role.

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She's average, decent, she's okay.

She's fine.

Her dispersion and hit chance is not that different to other ships with 10 guns at tier at similar ranges, she just has more range so it's easy to forget.

She's slow, we knew this.

Her AA is good

She's somewhat tanky vs AP and average against HE.

I managed to get top 2 in T10 matches twice, she can do damage. I've played 5 games... ...

The one thing I have noticed, Kansas is not flexible. You have to position well and early, and you need decent aim due to shell travel times.

I haven't used HE, I'll defer to others on that, I didn't want to switch to it with a 40s reload.

Her dispersion means she's good against big targets who aren't nose in. Nose-in targets you will be lucky to get 3 hits, most will bounce or shatter (with an appropriate aim higher on the target or going for an overmatch citadel).

Basically she throws a lot of shells at an enemy ship, the closer they are to broadside, the better she gets results.

I'm still refining my opinion and how to play her but you do not move to a flank and you need to think further ahead than with most BBs.

I think good players will do well with her.

I think average players will probably do poorly.

She's easy enough to play but she relies on aim and positioning and those who struggle with either will be punished more harshly than if they were playing other tier 8s.

But she's not a bad ship, her 12 guns can do devastating (get it!?) things. Her sluggishness may encourage more players to think more about their positioning further ahead of time (it won't but I can hope).

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2 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

The one thing I have noticed, Kansas is not flexible.

This one sentence sums it all. I see it better in a CW role where you have support and speed doesn't really matter as it's more of a slow push. 

But in randoms where the situation is much more fluid, her speed means that she cannot adapt quickly to big changes in the situation. Put it this way, if she had 27 knots, I'd rate her as decent despite her reload and other shortcomings. It's her lack of flexibility that kills.

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2 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

The bits I liked where you were outright frank about the in-laws.

I love how bitter he is about things, always makes my day...

1 hour ago, H_87A_2CU said:

Speed - at first I thought this wasn't going to be a Negative, if I positioned right, however its actually a big issue, get inside the range of any CA/CL and you have no hope to break away. Decisions on where you go right at the start of the match have lasting impact on the game, especially  at T10. If you spawn on a flank, you only get one chance to choose where you go, repositioning is not really possible.

Yeah, 100%. I've been playing her outside CA ranges, unless it's just one and I can outgun them.

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4 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

Yeah, 100%. I've been playing her outside CA ranges, unless it's just one and I can outgun them.

And if you get flanked by a flame throwing cruiser, you're in pretty much a BBQ as they can restealth and chase you. 

Also, re: positioning. The only way I survived the NM grind was because of Killer Whale. Take my NM. Go to north spawn point. Camp. Blow up 2 objectives. Sacrifice self and tell team to go to west exit if that is the exit. Otherwise wait in exit. 

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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