The Extinction of T10 DDs

[Brettr]

OK, so it's another whinging DD captain, Shima in fact.

As we all got sick of being erased within the first 5 minutes of the game starting it seems most T10 DD captains have given up.

The only time I see T10 DDs in games now is when I'm playing in my Shima. When I'm in a T10 CA or BB they are pretty rare. Fortunately other players seem understanding with having a Shima snuggling between a couple of US ships for AA and have given up demanding "cap! spot! cap! spot!" but it's a complete waste of a slot, we get shit XP 'cause we not capping enough, 20km torps are too slow and miss, 12km torps just means death by radar and getting chased all over the map by an Enterprise is just not fun.

We knew what was going to happen, we predicted this right from the start. It's not one ship, it's a whole class gone.

 

[Grygus_Triss]

Hmmm. While you can still do well in DDs, it takes care and effort. You can’t just jump in, hang around the back, aim and shoot like you can in a BB.
And you have to be prepared to get yelled at.

So with added difficulty, it does make playing the class stressful and often unpleasant. So yes, you do see a lot less DDs around at T10.

Which is a giant headache if you play a short range cruiser...

[BeardyBandit]

I'm a DD main and I still feel that I have the most control over a match in a DD. I have been playing a lot of CA matches lately grinding Hinden and DM and though I feel I do well individually, my overall win rate has been dropping as I just don't have as much influence. As soon as I jump back in a DD though, it's a different story. 

There is a fairly recent thread in the forum about how to get better as a DD player which is well worth a read if you haven't seen it already.

IlUltimayely, if you find yourself dying often in the first 5 min often, try different things like going out further on the flank, staying behind the cap a bit longer, being a bit more patient in general. You've got 20 minutes to win a match, no need to do it in the first 5 🙂

T10 DD can still be a lot of fun. I had a fun match in the Daring against @Moggytwo last night where we traded caps the entire match and played as pickets for our tteam

[Metal_illness]

Its frustrating when you are trying to put pressure on the enemy, even though they have multiple radars and cv planes spotting you, and your team can't back you up because they are all staying well in rear sniping meta HAHAHAHAHA.

Yesterday enemy had radar mino, 2x petros with radars, and a cv who all decided my flank was the one to pressure. GG.

[Mechfori]

The issue is not that T10 DD cannot be play , or that they do not play fun , or that they cannot be play to perform, but its the whole meta of ranging and all the mechanics involved - which mean :

a. you are ranged out as a DD most of the time so you are unable to do anything , you push out, you die quick and then got blamed, you hold back you got blamed, you try to stealth flanking or something you got Radar and CV and you got blamed .. yet again 

b. even if you happen to luck out and cap, the meta is still range duels so in the end no gun come forth to actually defend and deny the enemy , so frequent it is that capping yield nothing since the team will not defend, in fact more than  often what I see as a DD player is if I cap , the team then simply retreat, back off, and simply stay back lane and basically hand the enemy the area

c. too many high tier BB got good guns and range so they abuse it, which mean they sit far off, far out and far back, so in the end Cruiser cannot push out either, no less also the way too many Super Cruiser meta and then Radar, CV, and then CL and DD are basically left without any cover or support if they venture forth ... and when they need any they need it immediate, not another minute.

 

So one must ask, even as a DD main, why play the DD class at high tier, if the class of CV can just spam attack and not be stressed out, BB can range fire, sit bow on and still able to get his fair share, Cruisers can abuse their utility and farm ... where for DD .. well all your so call tactical DD thing put you in danger without the game providing you with the needed counter measure, and only give you a range that guarantee you a suicide ( and questionable mean to do yours at these high tier ) ... really for so many WHY PLAY DD at all if the game discriminate and so do fair population of players. At these high tiers the DD class are bestowed without the efficient, effective an consistent means to go offensive / defensive , while all the other class are given such .. and this filter down somewhat to mid and low tier too though less severe

 

 

1 hour ago, BeardyBandit said:

I

🙂T10 DD can still be a lot of fun. I had a fun match in the Daring against @Moggytwo last night where we traded caps the entire match and played as pickets for our team

... well good job there but did the team do anything for you the DD , if they did, count yourself lucky, cause most of the time the team just demand, they do not support , and that's why DD at T10 are increasingly extinct

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

The only DD that is very close to extinction is in fact Khabarovsk.

Shimakaze? Literally all ninja wannabe weebs that drools on their pillow waifu are still sailing around with that ship.

This one is from this morning.

No CVs, more radar on his team, and still ended up the 2nd from the bottom for God knows how. And my stats with Marceau is utter crap.

[Drakon233]

if T10 DDs are going extinct then can they die a bit harder? I'm tired of getting matches with 3-4DDs per side and all of them dieing within 10 minutes 

[Mechfori]

15 minutes ago, Drakon233 said:

if T10 DDs are going extinct then can they die a bit harder? I'm tired of getting matches with 3-4DDs per side and all of them dieing within 10 minutes 

you must be most unfortunate, these days with T10 game most of the time I am seeing only 1 DD er side , or zero , and occasionally 2  ; very rarely do I see 3 or 4 a side

[Brettr]

I don't think I particularly disagree with anyone above.

Not sure why but the yelling has died down recently, maybe everyone just expects us to die.

I have had some good games in T10. Three Shimas in one team, everyone bitching about that and especially 17900, but we won with the Shimas top three. I had a T10 game immediately after my OP and the Groz got all 3 caps and I got pushed out of all three, the CV did a good job of supporting me but no one else went anywhere near the caps, .

 

1 hour ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

No CVs, more radar on his team, and still ended up the 2nd from the bottom for God knows how. And my stats with Marceau is utter crap.

The answer is above
"we get shit XP 'cause we not capping early enough"

[Moggytwo]

9 hours ago, BeardyBandit said:

T10 DD can still be a lot of fun. I had a fun match in the Daring against @Moggytwo last night where we traded caps the entire match and played as pickets for our tteam

Yeah you played really well that battle, and had the better team in the end.  My team decided to all go to C cap, so didn't have the spread pressure.  I should have tried to engage you harder, I had a decision point midway through the battle where I could go to A and cap and try to spot and engage the enemy cruisers there, or try and pressure you.  You were well positioned reasonably close to your team and they were pushed up nicely near the cap, so I went for the first option, which in hindsight was a mistake as my team couldn't put down the cruisers I was spotting, even with me engaging them with guns to draw them out and tank for the team.  I had to reflect on that one for a bit, because I think I could have come closer to creating a win scenario with a different option.

7 hours ago, Mechfori said:

... well good job there but did the team do anything for you the DD , if they did, count yourself lucky, cause most of the time the team just demand, they do not support , and that's why DD at T10 are increasingly extinct

He definitely had the better positioned team.  They were well spread and constantly pressuring the caps with their positioning in both BB's and cruisers.  My team wasn't terrible, just not as good.  He played it perfectly.

7 hours ago, Mechfori said:

So one must ask, even as a DD main, why play the DD class at high tier, if the class of CV can just spam attack and not be stressed out, BB can range fire, sit bow on and still able to get his fair share, Cruisers can abuse their utility and farm ... where for DD .. well all your so call tactical DD thing put you in danger without the game providing you with the needed counter measure, and only give you a range that guarantee you a suicide ( and questionable mean to do yours at these high tier ) ... really for so many WHY PLAY DD at all if the game discriminate and so do fair population of players. At these high tiers the DD class are bestowed without the efficient, effective an consistent means to go offensive / defensive , while all the other class are given such .. and this filter down somewhat to mid and low tier too though less severe

I don't find this at all.  DD's are extremely capable at any tier, and the best ship for carrying the win.  I always feel I have engagement options, and no class really bothers me much.  Mind you, I really only play gun focused DD's, and I think torp boats are less enjoyable and generally less capable.

[Brettr]

I just played T10 in DM, there were no DDs or CVs - totally weird. Maybe I need to change the title of this thread? w

[Rina_Pon]

Generally the current meta since 9.9 is DD positive. Numbers are up, with 3 and even 4 DDs per team common at low, mid, and high tiers.

Just play any other tier than 10.

[Mechfori]

18 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

...

I don't find this at all.  DD's are extremely capable at any tier, and the best ship for carrying the win.  I always feel I have engagement options, and no class really bothers me much.  Mind you, I really only play gun focused DD's, and I think torp boats are less enjoyable and generally less capable.

which mean quite a fair portion of the DD population are by spec and by design to fail , guess its not quite what one would call balanced, and really the Q to be asked is not if you can carry in a DD or not , its if the class bestowed the same fair chance and fair play as other class and right now this is clearly not so ... try some DD with 8 or even 10KM torp and what 10 or 11KM gun range but then enemy got multiple 12KM radar , or .................................. and on top you add now Cruisrs, BB who can hard counter DD even against their core performing properties.

It cannot be denied that if the game allow casual and stress free performing play on CV, on BB , on Cruisers but pretty much discriminate DD the class and the DD players and put then in position where they cannot be dealing their own on same level of efficiency, effectiveness, consistency, and ease, then its a matte of the class being discriminated against and the players alienated .. so result is simple, fewer and fewer play the class , In a fashion this is the same for CV player but for different reasons ( economy , inability t maintain any consistency in play )

OP's observation is real and there's good reason to that ... am DD main too, but if for today I would advice any new comers against playing the class especially at high tier .. its no fun, you are always yelled at , and bestowed with multiple dangerous task when the team almost always sit at the back unable ( and mainly unwilling ) to actually support for real and yet you are rewarded almost nothing for al the thing you are tasked to do ... why even bother, just go play BB and farm from range out, just go play CV and spam those plane attack, just play Cruiser and do your share of HE spamming , sitting close to the back end group and do your AA duty ... no one wanting to be at the front and no one want to be the one facing the firing squad .. which is natural .. but what for DD , you are tasked and asked to go face it ALONE most of the time and when you refuse to be meat shield and fire bait for the big guns they yell at you, if you want to keep your sanity and just keep alive you are yelled at , and if you are to retreat to get out of trouble you are yelled at ... that is what it is on high tier ...

 

[Mechfori]

17 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

Generally the current meta since 9.9 is DD positive. Numbers are up, with 3 and even 4 DDs per team common at low, mid, and high tiers.

Just play any other tier than 10.

Very funny but the OP's question is regarding T10 DD population in game !!

[DUX_2020]

DDs are just not fun, there's no point in playing them if you get killed in the first 5mins.. you get plane spotted from CV... put up smoke... radar ships switch on radar at 10km.. smoke useless.. airplane hit you, BBs hit you, CA hit you.. just pathetic and no fun. the deck is stacked against you as you don't have any counter anymore (smoke is useless with radar or ultrasound)

have to get in close to shoot 10km torps? hahaha good luck

[yobbo1972]

so one at WG hates DD simple fact

[Puggsley]

Switching between Halland (maybe 60%), Shima (30%) and Gearing (10%) at the moment and its been ok. The longer range torps make it tolerable.

Haven't noticed too much of a drop off in numbers, occasionally get games with 3+ and no DD games rarely.

[Gesterbein]

Im still playing DD tho sometimes i switch from Gearing to Akzk or Smolensk....

[Mechfori]

4 hours ago, Puggsley said:

...The longer range torps make it tolerable.

...

 

And tha is pretty much what most T10 DD Players feel these days, tolerable ... the game mechanics and the game economy, as well as the game meta at T10 games pretty much infuse such. When as a player you know you can , on the other hand , not suffer such and in fact perfectly fine just having fun and even casual gaming with a BB, a Cruiser, a CV ...

I switch my play between Shima, Gearing, YY, and Marceau , but increasingly I feel like instead I will just play my T8 or T9 DD instead .. might get Hayate and Smaland down the road but right now the game simply do not made it worthwhile to play T10 DD , unless you are y nature a Masochist. Lately I am trying to see if I can revive playing Z-51, Groz and Khaba , just play them not as DD but support CL ( with no armor and no HP to burn ) .. I had yet to grind to Halland , and that will be my next T10 DD ..

if the game spec it to fail , spec it to suffer and no fun, spec it to be just food for others , then there is every reason why players would not play DD at T10 or any tier ( shall we talk low tier always 2CV game when your AA is a misery single or teen figure )

[Thyaliad]

I don't know what is up with the MM. Some games I get 0 DDs, then in the next match I get 4 DDs per team.

[Brettr]

4 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

I don't know what is up with the MM. Some games I get 0 DDs, then in the next match I get 4 DDs per team.

yeah, I've wondered if that's a deliberate decision. 

[Mechfori]

4 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

I don't know what is up with the MM. Some games I get 0 DDs, then in the next match I get 4 DDs per team.

Notice that too , its like might be a couple of games with no DD, then turn around another game 4  side, and then its no DD again .. and occasionally getting something in between

[Puggsley]

This morning had a quick game in the Jutland before work.

Made my day using the single fire torps to catch and sink a full health Mass who was running for an island at the start of the game. Would never had been able to do that with spread torps.

Still don't like the Jut much though..... 

Got 90% WR yesterday, feels good!

 

[Grygus_Triss]

Had a game last night when my team’s 3 DDs died in the first 10 mins to 1 of the enemy DDs. And it was a rare game with no CVs.

That said,I feel that since ranked ended, all the radar cruisers have flocked back to random.

[Puggsley]

This mornings was Jut and Fletcher (we split to A & C), enemy had Black and Udaloi (wolfpacked to B). 

No CV and all DDs survived until we ganged up on the Black and gunned him down. Maybe 1 minute before the end of the game. Was great fun and real cat and mouse stuff. Intense DD stuff was conducted with pretty much no outside support as both teams red-lined pretty hard.