So, what is the point of 0.9.9?

[juheon727]

Update 0.9.9 USN BB split, CV rework 2.0, etc. After 0.9.9, I realized it was almost impossible to play CVs because of the new engine boost mechanics. CV experience after 0.9.9 got worse. Engine boost changes meaning you can't stay at high speeds easily. How can changing camera view of planes and adding RNG to torps make the game balanced if the game is already kind of RNG dependent? And there's a microscopic delay between left clicking and the planes actually drops their torpedoes meaning that even if you left click with 2 torp planes, they can hit a flak and never drop their torps. I honestly don't understand the point of this patch.

[Grygus_Triss]

Ya know. I could almost accept CVs having their damage upped if they nerfed friendly spotting for aircraft. In my experience, it’s not the CV that kills you, it’s the enemy Surface ships it’s spotting for. Even put in a delay like radar would be nice.

But going back to the topic, As annoying as they are, if WG want CVs in the game, they have to be viable to play.

[Thyaliad]

Honestly I have no idea what changes were intended and which were not.

Seemingly minor changes to bomb and aerial torpedo drops have led to a very noticeable increase in RNG. 

[dejiko_nyo]

Seriously, flying planes since the "rework" has just been like trying to herd big cats through a narrow opening. So frustrating. Making it even more difficult to control will just drive people away. Just give us back our RTS CV.

[lunsmann]

3 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Seriously, flying planes since the "rework" has just been like trying to herd big cats through a narrow opening. So frustrating. Making it even more difficult to control will just drive people away. Just give us back our RTS CV.

Disagree on RTS CV - better NO CV than RTS CV comes back.

[LawrenceXVIII]

1 hour ago, lunsmann said:

Disagree on RTS CV - better NO CV than RTS CV comes back.

No CV means no RL historical then?

Ignoring those history carriers?

[dejiko_nyo]

1 hour ago, LawrenceXVIII said:

No CV means no RL historical then?

Ignoring those history carriers?

USN Carriers carried the Allies to Victoly! If it weren't for them, we'd be speaking nihongo-desu.

[CarvinMarvin]

1 minute ago, dejiko_nyo said:

USN Carriers carried the Allies to Victoly! If it weren't for them, we'd be speaking nihongo-desu.

C'mon most of us are weebs of one level or another. And most of us in this particular part of the forum are monolingual to a very large extent.

For a lot of us Japanese is already probably our 2nd best language. 

[Earl_of_Arland]

27 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

we'd be speaking nihongo-desu

Isn't that a great plus?

[Grygus_Triss]

2 hours ago, LawrenceXVIII said:

No CV means no RL historical then?

Ignoring those history carriers?

You want History? Say that to my Thunderer, Smolensk, Zao, Harugumo Etc...

[Reinhard_of_Avercland]

2 hours ago, LawrenceXVIII said:

No CV means no RL historical then?

Ignoring those history carriers?

No CV means:

1. The Regia Marina would have total control of the Mediterranean Sea.
2. Bismarck would have made it to France for repair.
3. Montana-class would have been built.
4. More Yamato-class would have been built
5. Kriegsmarine's "Plan Z" would probably be realized, although without Graf Zeppelin (Bismarck's demise caused the domino effect that eventually cancelled the plan).
6. Amagi would have survived the earthquake, while Kaga would have remained as a BB.
7. Attack on Pearl Harbor would never happen, which also means the US would not have a real reason to join into the war. Even if it did, it would have been more than just a raid.

I'm not saying the Axis would have won the war though. However the war would have lasted longer because the main reason the Axis lost the war was because the Allies were 2 steps ahead once the US backed & carried them.

[lunsmann]

5 hours ago, LawrenceXVIII said:

No CV means no RL historical then?

Ignoring those history carriers?

Nope.

Better to have NO CV in the game than to have the RTS CV back in the game.

In real life, the CV made BB's and Super cruiser obsolete overnight. If wargaming made the CV in the game to be as powerful as the CV was in real life, the game would die totally on day one of that release.

In WOWS, the current version of CV is by far the superior version for game play purposes in my opinion. The RTS CV variant was closer to real life CV's and as a result a good RTS CV player totally dominated the match. I heard the stories, and watched countless videos on youtube, and chose to ignore this game completely until after the CV rework. But this is my opinion of it. Others may have their own opinion.

[legionary2099]

Just stop CV from dropping FT out of nowhere. FT mechanic as of current is either useless or broken. They perma spot dd slowing down or are making a retreat.

My suggestion is returning FT as a plane type. A FT attack run is a strafe, planes hit will be shot down equal to the number of planes in attack run/ That would be more fun and allow CV to actually take care of aerial control instead of yolo attacking every ship in sight. Also stop CV from seeing 2 places at the same time.

[humusz]

3 hours ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

No CV means:

1. The Regia Marina would have total control of the Mediterranean Sea.
2. Bismarck would have made it to France for repair.
3. Montana-class would have been built.
4. More Yamato-class would have been built
5. Kriegsmarine's "Plan Z" would probably be realized, although without Graf Zeppelin (Bismarck's demise caused the domino effect that eventually cancelled the plan).
6. Amagi would have survived the earthquake, while Kaga would have remained as a BB.
7. Attack on Pearl Harbor would never happen, which also means the US would not have a real reason to join into the war. Even if it did, it would have been more than just a raid.

I'm not saying the Axis would have won the war though. However the war would have lasted longer because the main reason the Axis lost the war was because the Allies were 2 steps ahead once the US backed & carried them.

in 1 Year, you need to made same bullet point about "No Subs mean :" 😎

[LawrenceXVIII]

1 hour ago, lunsmann said:

Nope.

Better to have NO CV in the game than to have the RTS CV back in the game.

In real life, the CV made BB's and Super cruiser obsolete overnight. If wargaming made the CV in the game to be as powerful as the CV was in real life, the game would die totally on day one of that release.

In WOWS, the current version of CV is by far the superior version for game play purposes in my opinion. The RTS CV variant was closer to real life CV's and as a result a good RTS CV player totally dominated the match. I heard the stories, and watched countless videos on youtube, and chose to ignore this game completely until after the CV rework. But this is my opinion of it. Others may have their own opinion.

I understand that your opinion about hatred of how Powerful Carriers both IRL and Ingame is but what can you do about it?

You have to blame some RL admirals/Inventors who used to invent Carriers before fam. Blame Wright Brothers then. then there will be no planes at all.

 

[CarvinMarvin]

8 hours ago, humusz said:

in 1 Year, you need to made same bullet point about "No Subs mean :" 😎

To be fair though, SS were not really meant to be part of a fleet engagement. They are a little out of place.

CVs most definitely have a place in the environment, even if the reality is that it would be a disaster if they were as close to an enemy as they are in the game. But imagine the whining if CV players were actually allowed to be 100+ miles away. 

[Skarhabek]

15 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

USN Carriers carried the Allies to Victoly! If it weren't for them, we'd be speaking nihongo-desu.

 

15 hours ago, CarvinMarvin said:

C'mon most of us are weebs of one level or another. And most of us in this particular part of the forum are monolingual to a very large extent.

For a lot of us Japanese is already probably our 2nd best language. 

If Japan win WW2, there will be no anime. They will become another tyranical country. 

We will not have console game or other fun stuff. Japan will produce military stuff instead of what our have today.

 

 

[lunsmann]

9 hours ago, LawrenceXVIII said:

I understand that your opinion about hatred of how Powerful Carriers both IRL and Ingame is but what can you do about it?

You have to blame some RL admirals/Inventors who used to invent Carriers before fam. Blame Wright Brothers then. then there will be no planes at all.

 

Actually - I don't hate CV's in the game or in real life.

I think the current iteration of CV is really well balanced. Maybe some more tweaks are still needed, like the spotting mechanics that are coming up, though perhaps halving spotting distances is going too far in my opinion. 

There is one think that bugs me regarding the current CV spotting, and that is why are planes always spotted 10km away (except IJN torp bombers)? That is the complete opposite to real world spotting. There is no way planes were spotted that far out during the ww2 era apart from a handful of very late war radar equipped ships, and even then I don't believe that was actually a factor at all. They relied on a fighter cap and patrols to spot incoming airstrikes.

But I suppose wargaming made it this way to help balance the classes, allowing ships to be able to turn to counter attacks. So while it does bug me, I can see a valid reason for it. 

[Skarhabek]

9 hours ago, LawrenceXVIII said:

I understand that your opinion about hatred of how Powerful Carriers both IRL and Ingame is but what can you do about it?

You have to blame some RL admirals/Inventors who used to invent Carriers before fam. Blame Wright Brothers then. then there will be no planes at all.

 

Hey don't blame the CV creator and Isoroko. Without CV the WW2 will be prolonged. 

CV and Nuclear bomb is the reason we don't have major war despite a lot of conflict. Without CV, Bismarck and Tirpitz will prevail. And Submarine is going to wreck havoc. Japan wont attack pearl harbour, allowing them to stack force By getting their hand on south east Asia resource. And America will never have their great fleet. They will doomed by their slow snail fleet. We have CV named Nimitz because he encourage the rockheaded halsey to get on CV.

Nuclear bomb Deny the will of creating another major war, since its guarantee mutual destruction. Its the greatest deterrent.

Oppenheimer may kill million people, but he save Billion people by discouraging WW3.

[Puggsley]

14 hours ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

However the war would have lasted longer because the main reason the Axis lost the war was because the Allies were 2 steps ahead once the US backed & carried assisted them.

FTFY

Was a team effort.

Remember doing some business in Dallas and puncturing a Yankee bubble about how the USA also won the first world war........ And also when WW2 started. 

[dejiko_nyo]

2 hours ago, Skarhabek said:

If Japan win WW2, there will be no anime. They will become another tyranical country. 

We will not have console game or other fun stuff. Japan will produce military stuff instead of what our have today.

DING! Someone hit it on the spot. Wait. Is that the Apocalypse I see coming out the window!? RUN! Ragnarok is here!

[CarvinMarvin]

3 hours ago, Skarhabek said:

Hey don't blame the CV creator and Isoroko. Without CV the WW2 will be prolonged. 

CV and Nuclear bomb is the reason we don't have major war despite a lot of conflict. Without CV, Bismarck and Tirpitz will prevail. And Submarine is going to wreck havoc. Japan wont attack pearl harbour, allowing them to stack force By getting their hand on south east Asia resource. And America will never have their great fleet. They will doomed by their slow snail fleet. We have CV named Nimitz because he encourage the rockheaded halsey to get on CV.

Nuclear bomb Deny the will of creating another major war, since its guarantee mutual destruction. Its the greatest deterrent.

Oppenheimer may kill million people, but he save Billion people by discouraging WW3.

I'm going to argue a few of these hypotheticals.

Without CVs Bismarck and Tirpitz would still have been basically useless. They were 2 ships, and the RN had engaged in anti-commerce raider activities for a very long time. And they were perfectly willing to use overwhelming force to eliminate them. In fact during the Bismarck pursuit, when the RN denuded convoy's of their escorts U-boats sank even less tonnage than they had previously. 

Escort carriers played their role certainly in convoy's but the real work was done by destroyers, frigates and corvettes. And Bletchley Park of course. Just as in WWI when U-boats were basically hunted to extinction they were in WWII as well.

If Japan couldn't attack the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour they would never have decided to just go after SEA. The entire point of attacking the USN at Pearl Harbour was to eliminate the Pacific Fleet as a threat to the army's flank. The Pacific fleet had to be dealt with as a pre-requisite to advancing into SEA because The Philippines needed to be dealt with, and that couldn't be done without dealing with the fleet. And the United States would certainly have had a great fleet even without carriers. Even at it's fullest the Co-Prosperity Sphere couldn't match the capacity of the US. Japan lost the war on December 7 1941. It just took another 3 and a half years to finally get them to realise.

Aircraft carriers certainly played a big part in the Pacific War but their absence from history wouldn't have the effects I think you are claiming.

I'll also point out that the idea of Mutually Assured Destruction only really came into nuclear strategy in the late 50's early 60's. Up until then the US fully expected to use nuclear weapons successfully in battle. Indeed in 1951 atomic weapons were released to be used on China. And even when it did come into vogue it hasn't deterred a major war any more than The Congress of Vienna did a century earlier. It may well have made major powers more cautious about directly confronting their rivals on the battlefield, or it may not.

 

[hurricaneflyer]

21 hours ago, CarvinMarvin said:

C'mon most of us are weebs of one level or another.

*Hides*

[Skarhabek]

3 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

DING! Someone hit it on the spot. Wait. Is that the Apocalypse I see coming out the window!? RUN! Ragnarok is here!

its already happen, could 2020 any worse?

 

1 hour ago, CarvinMarvin said:

I'm going to argue a few of these hypotheticals.

Without CVs Bismarck and Tirpitz would still have been basically useless. They were 2 ships, and the RN had engaged in anti-commerce raider activities for a very long time. And they were perfectly willing to use overwhelming force to eliminate them. In fact during the Bismarck pursuit, when the RN denuded convoy's of their escorts U-boats sank even less tonnage than they had previously. 

Escort carriers played their role certainly in convoy's but the real work was done by destroyers, frigates and corvettes. And Bletchley Park of course. Just as in WWI when U-boats were basically hunted to extinction they were in WWII as well.

If Japan couldn't attack the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour they would never have decided to just go after SEA. The entire point of attacking the USN at Pearl Harbour was to eliminate the Pacific Fleet as a threat to the army's flank. The Pacific fleet had to be dealt with as a pre-requisite to advancing into SEA because The Philippines needed to be dealt with, and that couldn't be done without dealing with the fleet. And the United States would certainly have had a great fleet even without carriers. Even at it's fullest the Co-Prosperity Sphere couldn't match the capacity of the US. Japan lost the war on December 7 1941. It just took another 3 and a half years to finally get them to realise.

Aircraft carriers certainly played a big part in the Pacific War but their absence from history wouldn't have the effects I think you are claiming.

I'll also point out that the idea of Mutually Assured Destruction only really came into nuclear strategy in the late 50's early 60's. Up until then the US fully expected to use nuclear weapons successfully in battle. Indeed in 1951 atomic weapons were released to be used on China. And even when it did come into vogue it hasn't deterred a major war any more than The Congress of Vienna did a century earlier. It may well have made major powers more cautious about directly confronting their rivals on the battlefield, or it may not.

 

they will go after SEA, just not attack philpines directly. 

start from China, Vietnamese, and later Indonesia. Japan just need resource from Indonesia, Malaysia, and Brunei. their oil and raw material resource is more than enough to create industrial machine comparable to America in just 5 year.

remember, Isoroku is not idiot to attack pearl harbour directly. "you dont awaken the giant, you poison it and let it sleep forever" 

Japan and German could win WW2 if they are become "liberator" and not "new oppressor". in case of German they have chance with partisan to join them because who doesnt hate Stalin? Japan could get support from SEA people if they are not doing "jugun ianfu" and do the right. in 1945 most of people in SEA just hate western for hundred year of colonialization.

the biggest mistake of German Navy is failure of obtaining French Fleet Ship. the aftermath of operation catapult is enough to turn Vichy French againts England....

and Hitler Biggest mistake is trusting Churchill will join him later as superior race. 

yep both Japan, Italy and Germany have one biggest stupidty in 1940, they are think as superior race.

 

but of course it all the bloodshed need to happen, now we have Weeb, Wehraboos, PIZZAAAAAAAAA and the best of the best..... American Memes

if Axis win WW2, i doubt we are still enjoying all of this degeneracy......

even if Axis did win WW2, it just matter of time until people revolt like soviet..... in the end people just want freedom

[CarvinMarvin]

1 hour ago, Skarhabek said:

its already happen, could 2020 any worse?

 

they will go after SEA, just not attack philpines directly. 

start from China, Vietnamese, and later Indonesia. Japan just need resource from Indonesia, Malaysia, and Brunei. their oil and raw material resource is more than enough to create industrial machine comparable to America in just 5 year.

remember, Isoroku is not idiot to attack pearl harbour directly. "you dont awaken the giant, you poison it and let it sleep forever" 

Japan and German could win WW2 if they are become "liberator" and not "new oppressor". in case of German they have chance with partisan to join them because who doesnt hate Stalin? Japan could get support from SEA people if they are not doing "jugun ianfu" and do the right. in 1945 most of people in SEA just hate western for hundred year of colonialization.

the biggest mistake of German Navy is failure of obtaining French Fleet Ship. the aftermath of operation catapult is enough to turn Vichy French againts England....

and Hitler Biggest mistake is trusting Churchill will join him later as superior race. 

yep both Japan, Italy and Germany have one biggest stupidty in 1940, they are think as superior race.

 

but of course it all the bloodshed need to happen, now we have Weeb, Wehraboos, PIZZAAAAAAAAA and the best of the best..... American Memes

if Axis win WW2, i doubt we are still enjoying all of this degeneracy......

even if Axis did win WW2, it just matter of time until people revolt like soviet..... in the end people just want freedom

But the point is they couldn't get those resources because of pressure from the US. The US was the strategic rival, therefore the US forces needed to be dealt with. And it isn't just the raw materials that they need. It's industrial capacity.

And as we know Yamamoto wasn't making the decisions. The army was. The army was the senior branch, they told the navy what to do and expected the navy to carry out their orders.

 

Japan and Germany realistically had no chance to win the war. Germany had a serious petroleum shortage. It had even less ability to project power off the continent than did Wilhelm II. The RN may no longer have had the ability to chock the continent under a close blockade like they did to Napoleon I, but they didn't need to. The one advantage the Germans did have was in small unit tactics, and it lasted a very short time. As for Japan, well yes it could've survived the war by staying with China and Korea, because it was already there any nobody seemed to care enough, but it already tried tangling with the Soviet Union and got absolutely belted in Manchuria. To seize the resources in SEA was going to inevitably involve a confrontation with the US and British Empire. It could deal with Britain because Churchill was obsessed (and somewhat understandably) with defeating Hitler but the US was always the main issue. Remember it did hold most of those SEA territories for 5 years. In the end USN SS were reduced to shooting up fishing boats because there weren't enough targets left.

And the Germany didn't have a chance to get the French fleet. France, being France wasn't going to order it to sail back to France, and Churchill was going to make sure that if the fleet doesn't join de Gaulle it isn't joining anyone. Vichy France was a fantasy and everyone knew it.