All my speculative EU lines

[Paladinum]

EU DD lines

Sweden is out for obvious reason.

 

Polish:

Spoiler

Tier 4: ORP Kujawiak/ORP Ślązak/ORP Krakowiak (RN Hunt-class Type II)

Tier 5: Wicher-class

Tier 6: ORP Garland (ex-HMS Garland RN G-class)

Tier 7: Grom-class / Improved Grom-class / ORP Piorun (RN N-class)

Tier 8: ORP Wicher (ex-Russian Skoriy-class)

 

Greek:

Spoiler

Tier 4:

Tier 5:

Tier 6: Psara (D96) / Vasilefs Georgios (D14)

Tier 7:

Tier 8: Niki/Doxa (US Gleaves-class)

Tier 9: Velos (D16) (US Fletcher-class)

Tier 10: Themistoklis (D210) (US Gearing-class)

 

Norwegian:

Spoiler

Tier 2: Sleipner-class

Tier 3: ex-Town-class (British)

Tier 4: HNoMS Arendal (ex-RN Hunt-class)

Tier 5:

Tier 6: Oslo (RN C-class 1943)

Tier 7: Svenner (RN S-class)

 

Dutch:

Spoiler

Tier 5: Admiralen-class

Tier 6: Gerard Callenburgh-class

Tier 7: Van Galen (ex RN N-class) / Banckert (ex RN Q-class) / Kortenaar (ex RN S-class)

Tier 8: Holland-class

Tier 9: Amsterdam (Friesland-class)

 

Ottoman/Turkish:

Spoiler

Tier 5: Kocatepe-class/ Zafer-class

Tier 6: Demirhisar-class/ Gayret

Tier 7:

Tier 8: Gaziantep-class (US Gleaves-class) / Alp Arslan-class (RN M-class)

Tier 9: İstanbul-class (US Fletcher-class) / Muavenet (US Robert H. Smith-class)

Tier 10: Yücetepe-class (US Gearing-class) / Zafer 1972 (US Sumner-class)

 

Spanish:

Spoiler

Tier 3: Alsedo

Tier 4:

Tier 5:

Tier 6: Churruca-class 1923

Tier 7:

Tier 8:

Tier 9: Lepanto (US Fletcher-class) / Oquendo-class

Tier 10: Churruca (US Gearing-class) / Roger de Lauria (Modified Oquendo-class)

 

Romanian:

Spoiler

Tier 5: Vifor-class

Tier 6: Regele Ferdinand

 

Premiums:

Tier 5: Vifor-class (Romania)

Tier 7: Split (Yugoslavia)

Tier 8/9 Premium: Jacob van Heemskerck (Tromp-class)

 

************

 

EU CR Lines Theorycrafting

Disclaimers:

I don’t care about setting up lines to be specifically of any nation, just give me an EU CR line.

I also don’t care about which ships will be premium or researchable, as long as there is at least 1 design that can be researchable. All ships/designs that I list in any tier are the candidates.

I also also don’t tier ships/designs after I give them gimmicks. I tier them by comparing to other ships in the game, mostly tech tree and mostly US/IJN/KM ships. These aren’t gimmicked too much and even if they are, the impact of gimmicks on tiering are negligible.

 

Here’s what I know:

+ The Netherlands and Sweden built cruisers before, but all CLs. And Bofors developed the weapons for those ships;

+ Spain had Italy designed a number of cruisers for them, CLs and CAs. One of them is presented in-game as Italian Amalfi. There is a 3x2 design with A-XY turret layout;

+ Most of the nations in the Scandinavian Peninsula did not have the need of larger warships (cruisers and battleships), so it’s unlikely for them to design any large cruiser or battleship;

+ Within the Dutch super cruiser project, there were proposals for a design with 240 mm guns. Since there are Henri IV and Drake/Goliath in the game, 240 mm should be acceptable for tech tree CAs.

 

What I think is the best possible line:

Tier 3: Java (Netherlands)

Tier 4: Navarra (Spain) / Reina Regente (Spain) / Tromp (Netherlands)

Tier 5: Blas de Lezo (Spain) / Almirante Cervera (Spain) / De Ruyter 1935 (Netherlands)

Tier 6: Canarias (Spain)/ Tre Kronor (Sweden) / De Zeven Provinciën 1953 aka Eendracht  (Netherlands)

Tier 7: some variants of Italian CA designs for Spain. 3x2 203 mm

Tier 8: Italian (Ansaldo) CL design 4x3 152/ some variants of Italian CA designs for Spain, 3x3 203 / Dutch project 1047 proposal with 3x2 240 mm

Tier 9: Dutch Project 1047 16.000-ton preliminary design with 3x3 240 mm guns

Tier 10: Hypothetical design using 240 mm from T10 and a light hull from other designs within the Dutch super cruiser project.

 

The source for my take on the Tier 9 and 10 is here, just scan and skim it:

https://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/Special_battlecruiser.htm

At mid/high tiers, there are 3 ways this could go and each “line” is at least consistent in itself:

 

The Dutch line:

This is the most "historical" because the T8, 9 and 10 are all real proposals/design studies, and not some hypothetical designs.

Spoiler

Tier 6: De Zeven Provinciën 1953 aka Eendracht  (Netherlands)

Tier 7: Ansaldo 3x2 203 design for Spain -or- Ansaldo CL design 4x3 152 that is somehow nerfed to be equal to Abruzzi. Definitely not having the same gimmicks as the Italian CAs. NO SAP.

 

Tier 8:

Dutch project 1047 proposal with 3x2 240 mm

Displacement: 16.000 ton standard (HP: ~40.000)

Armament: 3x2 240 mm, 4x2 120 mm

Protection: 140 mm belt, 65 mm deck

Speed: 33 knots

 

Tier 9:

Proposed name: Van Spyek

Dutch Project 1047 16.000-ton preliminary design (marked as Table 5/6 in the linked article)

Displacement: 16.000 ton standard (Hull A HP: ~40.000)

Armament: 3x3 240 mm, 4x2 120 mm

Protection: 120 mm belt, 60 mm deck

Speed: 33 knots

 

Tier 10:

Proposed name: John William Friso

Dutch Project 1047 16.000-ton preliminary design (marked as Table 5/6 in the linked article)

Displacement: 16.000 ton standard (HP: ~40.000)

Armament: 3x3 240 mm, 4x2 120 mm

Protection: 175 mm belt, 75 mm deck

Speed: 29 knots

 

 

The CA line:

However, this is the most ideal line.

Spoiler

Obligatory Swedish torpedoes.

Sweden has plans to arm some of their ships with triple 210 mm turrets, and we are just talking the guns and ignoring the rest of the designs.

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/8524-sweden-in-world-of-warships/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-159001

 

Tier 6: Canarias (Spain)

Tier 7: Ansaldo 3x2 203 design for Spain.

Tier 8: Ansaldo 3x3 203 design for Spain. Modified version of Amalfi. Definitely not having the same gimmicks as the Italian CAs. NO SAP.

 

Tier 9:

Proposed name: Leif Eriksson

Hypothetical design using 3x3 210 mm.

Hull: based on Tre Kronor or German Hipper-class (turtleback not included).

Secondary are 4x2 120 turrets from Skane/Oland.

Swedish torpedoes (Oland B) will compliment the offensive capability. Either 2x4 or 4x3.

 

Tier 10:

Proposed name: Erik Thorvaldsson

Hypothetical design using “enhanced” 3x3 or 4x3 210 mm

Hull: improved version of the T9 Hull. Simple.

Secondary are 4x2 120 turrets from Skane/Oland.

Swedish torpedoes (Ostergotland B) will compliment the offensive capability. Either 2x4 or 4x3.

 

 

The CL line:

Spoiler

Obligatory Swedish torpedoes.

Tier 6: Swedish Tre Kronor-class

Tier 7: Dutch De Zeven Provinciën-class (also “Eendracht-class”)

 

Tier 8:

Proposed name: Pisa

Ansaldo CL design 4x3 152 mm for Spain.

With Swedish torps (???). Definitely not having the same gimmicks as the Italian CAs. NO SAP.

 

Tier 9:

Proposed name: Göteborg

Hypothetical improved design of the Tier 7 with High RoF DP 3x3 152 mm turrets AB-X.

Secondary are 4x2 120 turrets from Skane/Oland.

I don’t know Bofors but I want this design to be 3x3 with super quick firing guns instead. Like 6s quick.

Swedish torpedoes (Skane/Oland) will compliment the offensive capability. Either 2x4 or 4x3.

 

Tier 10:

Proposed name: Stockholm

Hypothetical improved version of the Tier 9, with “enhanced” 3x3 DP 152 mm.

Secondary are 4x2 120 turrets from Friesland/Halland.

Torpedoes: Halland B. 4x4 for maximum torp spamming.

 

Premium of the line:

Tier 2: Georgios Averof (Greek)

Tier 5: Almirante Cervera (Spain)

Tier 6: HNLMS De Ruyter (1935)

Tier 9: Design 1047 “large cruiser” by the Netherlands.

Just like Alaska, Azuma and Agir.

 

Which line do I think as the most possible?

The Dutch line. 

The 2 other lines have more hypothetical/mish-mash ships than that line. At least, in the Dutch line, the T8/9/10 are documented suggestions instead of my own ideas.

 

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EU BB Lines Theorycrafting

(save this for the year 2024)

Here’s what I know:

+ The Netherlands once wanted to have capital ships, as seen in the designing of Project 1047 large cruiser (German design);

+ Sweden had experience building large caliber guns, as seen on Sveringe-class coastal defense ships. But 283 mm guns are not big enough for this application. Unless you want a whole line full of 283 mm gun BBs;

+ Spain had plans to build 4 Littorio-class battleships, and they were to be built in Spain, so Spain had shipyards big enough to for capital ships of that size. Maybe;

 

Spoiler

Tier 3

Radetzky (Austria-Hungary)                                                 2x2 305, 4x2 240

 

Tier 4

Yavuz Sultan Selim (Ottoman)                                             See Goeben – Moltke-class

España (Spain)                                                                       4x2 305 (2 echelon)

 

Tier 5

Tegetthoff (Austria-Hungary)                                               4x3 305

Reşadiye (Ottoman)                                                              5x2 343 (see Iron Duke)

Reina Victoria Eugenia (Spain)                                             4x2 343

Dutch 1913 battleship proposal (Netherlands)                     4x2 356

 

Tier 6

Ersatz Monarch (Austria-Hungary)                                       2x2 2x3 350

 

Tier 7

https://warshipprojects.com/2018/02/25/austro-hungarian-capital-ship-genesis/

My pick:

Projekt XIV / Pre-project II:

Displacement: 32.000 tons (nearly 8.000 ton heavier than E. Monarch)

Armaments:

3×3 2×2 350 mm (same number of guns as Conte di Cavour)

18×1 150 mm

8×1 90 mm

10×1 90 mm AA

8x 533 mm Underwater Torpedo tubes

Speed: 23 knots

 

Tier 8

Similar circumstances as the EU cruiser line, Spain attempted to allow Italy to build a number of Littorio-class ships in Spain, but the plan never came to fruition.

This is the kind of situation suitable for WG to say “Sounds Spanish enough to us” to create a Spanish Littorio *roll eyes*

 

Tier 9:

https://warshipprojects.com/2018/02/25/austro-hungarian-capital-ship-genesis/

Modernized + enlarged version of

Projekt V Battleship:

Specifications:

Dimensions: 215 (wl) x 32 x 9,5 m

Displacement: 37.200 tons (standard), 39.600 tons (full load)

Armour: 40 mm Deck, 300 mm Belt

Engines: 56.000 shp Steam Turbines, 4 shafts

Speed: 44 km/h (24 knots)

Armaments:

4×2 420 mm Cannons

20×1 150 mm Guns

4×1 150 mm DP Guns

6×1 530 mm Underwater Torpedo tubes

 

I really want to avoid UP.41 because it’s not a really related to the other European nations, and it will just be a copy-pasta of Markus Pollus. Also, this is to keep WG’s “sacred” caliber progression thingy.

 

Tier 10:

Either a modernized + enlarged version of an old design, or WG’s black magic construct.

 

 

Hypothetical backgrounds:

+ The Scandinavian nations wanted to arm themselves with ships large enough to stop Germany from dominating the North Sea. Bofors can develop the weapons, but the ships are not necessarily only Swedish. They can be Norwegian, they can be Finnish, they can be Danish. They can be Dutch. The Dutch had some colonies in the Pacific theater, so I don't think it'd be too far-fetched if they ever thought about using BBs.

+ The British and/or France have large enough shipyards to build battleships and deliver them to the Scandinavia, and then have Bofors company arm those ships with their own weapons. The designs are made by Sweden/Norway/Dutch/Finland/Denmark of course.

Imagine a more "proper" BB design based on Project 1047 super cruiser that can take the T8 slot. The T8 can have 406 mm. For me, the "European" thing for BB designs is double turrets. So the T8 can be similar to FdG, but less secondary turrets and no turtleback. Maybe there is turtleback but the designs don't place an emphasis on brawling, and they can be more well-rounded like US BBs.

T8 has 4x2 406, T9 also 406 but 3x3, and T10 can be 3x3 419/420 (16,5"). I actively avoid 18" because I don't like them.

 

 

How about that 283-only line? 

Spoiler

Tier 1: Sveringe-class coastal defense ship. 2x2 283.

Tier 2: Enhanced Sveringe-class as true pre-dreadnought BBs. 3x2 or 4x2 283.

Tier 3: Enhanced Sveringe-class as true dreadnought BBs. 4x2 or 5x2 283.

Tier 4: BB design based on Nassau-class BB with better speed. 6x2 283 (same turret layout as Nassau).

Tier 5: BB design based on Konig-class BB. 5x2 283.

Tier 6: One of the lighter proposals of Project 1047 large cruiser w/ proper BB armor scheme. 3x3 283.

Tier 7: Project 1047 large cruiser w/ proper BB armor scheme. 3x3 283.

Tier 8: Enlarged design based on Project 1047. 4x3 283.

Tier 9: BB design based on Bismarck (w/o turtleback) or Littorio. 4x3 283.

Tier 10: Bigger Tier 9 with 5x3 283. Why? Because Venezia and Colombo.

 

[S0und_Theif]

Adding

 

Spanish and Portugese DD

T5 Alcala Galiano (Churruca 1927)

T5 Douro

T9 / T10 Oquendo (Some are mounted with 120 mm / 50 [Lightning] some 127 mm / 38 [Gearing])

 

Romanian DD

T5 Mărăști or Mărășești

T6 Regele Ferdinand

 

Estonian DD (Also sold to Peru)

T3 Alsedo

T4 Lennuk

 

Yugosavia DD

T6 Dubrovnik

T7 Split 1940

 

Since Dutch ships lack torpedo armament in both cruiser and destroyer, should they be compensated with consumables and / or parameters?

The rest are cool.

[Paladinum]

Finally got time to update the original thread in the cruiser and DD sections.

Will probably find something to work with for the high tier BBs, if that is even possible. I know I most likely cannot, but WG 100% can.

 

On 9/29/2020 at 10:24 PM, S0und_Theif said:

Adding

I have some Spanish and Romanian DDs in tiers already, but somehow forgot.