Team Damage/Penalty needs a rework

[Adorable_KeQing]

Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening,

I am pretty certain at this point most of you have received some sort of team damage whether its unintentional/accidental or intentional. And I am sure it is very frustrating to get team damaged intentionally/unintentionally cause who knows the damage you received from your careless and/or salty players from your team could have costed you your team's victory or you know, getting denied from doing better.

From what I see in the current system, the player that is on the receiving even of being TKed is punished harder compared to the one that is inflicting the damage.
I will be using one of the recent threads as an example and credit is due where credit is due, 

Said player received team damage for a hefty 40,000 dmg to his Stalingrad and no, this is not unintentional. How can you unintentionally deal 40k damage to a team member? You gotta be hella dumb to do that.
And reasoning being? Extend the game time. Those 2 pinkies were actually in a division and somehow thought it would be best to TK someone for 40k damage to further extend the game?
And what punishment did those 2 TKers receive? Well, 2 games of pink status and we can agree that is barely anything. 2 coop games and done. As if WG just gives a pat to the shoulders of those TKers and being let off.

Current system is just flawed to every extent. The only time I see TKing is somewhat useful is when you know it is coordinated in a DIV where you would kill a DIV mate of yours to further extend the time and that is it. Other than that, its all full of flaws.

Proposed changes,
1) Limit the amount of X damage you can receive from someone on your team (Per player basis/as a whole), and after receiving X amount of damage from someone on your team, you take no further damage, the TKer will still have damage being inflicting to their ship if they do keep shooting.
>X max amount of damage that is being inflicted to your ship could be based on your class where it scales the higher tier you go. But I do not see this viable as it varies too much from each nation.
>X max amount of damage that is being inflicted could be based on % max health, 10% of your ship's max health max from a player on your team and/or MAX amount of team damage you can receive from your team as a whole.
After receiving X damage, you will no longer receive team damage. But the TKer will still have damage beig inflicted to their ship if they do keep shooting.
Exceptions: For the sake of DIV plays at times, "1)" will be excluded for members in a DIVISION

2) Current punishment for the TKer is too lenient and needs to be harsher. Current system is like "Pink Status" where you can clear it in 2 coop games which you know, its pretty much nothing. "Orange Status" (obtained after you TK again after clearing your Pink status) where you are forced into playing COOP for a certain amount of battles. And we can also agree this Orange status is nothing. 
>Amount of coop games given should no longer be fixed to 2 coop games only. Dealing 40k TK damage is equivalent to accidental TK (Where a player is doing a driveby and your shells RNGed into their ship for like 5k/Careless torp spread where it accidentally killed one of your 3k health team or accidentally landing 2 torps on your teammate), the higher amount of X team damage you dealt your team, the higher amount of battles you need to clear your status.
>Repeated offenders where they receive Pink status X amount of times in a week and/or month will be required to play 2x or more amount of battles in coop.

And yes, I am more than aware some players are just VERY BAD where they would fall into some of those punishments for their carelessness but it is pretty much well deserved as this players do really frustrate everyone.

Do excuse me a little, kinda brainstormed this in a short amount of time, I am sure there are areas where this could be further improved on. Please leave your feedback. Oh, and take note of image below,

Thanks,
HoChunHao, not a Smolensk main
 

 

[EULA_violator]

30 minutes ago, HoChunHao said:

Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening,

I am pretty certain at this point most of you have received some sort of team damage whether its unintentional/accidental or intentional. And I am sure it is very frustrating to get team damaged intentionally/unintentionally cause who knows the damage you received from your careless and/or salty players from your team could have costed you your team's victory or you know, getting denied from doing better.

From what I see in the current system, the player that is on the receiving even of being TKed is punished harder compared to the one that is inflicting the damage.
I will be using one of the recent threads as an example and credit is due where credit is due, 

Said player received team damage for a hefty 40,000 dmg to his Stalingrad and no, this is not unintentional. How can you unintentionally deal 40k damage to a team member? You gotta be hella dumb to do that.
And reasoning being? Extend the game time. Those 2 pinkies were actually in a division and somehow thought it would be best to TK someone for 40k damage to further extend the game?
And what punishment did those 2 TKers receive? Well, 2 games of pink status and we can agree that is barely anything. 2 coop games and done. As if WG just gives a pat to the shoulders of those TKers and being let off.

Current system is just flawed to every extent. The only time I see TKing is somewhat useful is when you know it is coordinated in a DIV where you would kill a DIV mate of yours to further extend the time and that is it. Other than that, its all full of flaws.

Proposed changes,
1) Limit the amount of X damage you can receive from someone on your team (Per player basis/as a whole), and after receiving X amount of damage from someone on your team, you take no further damage, the TKer will still have damage being inflicting to their ship if they do keep shooting.
>X max amount of damage that is being inflicted to your ship could be based on your class where it scales the higher tier you go. But I do not see this viable as it varies too much from each nation.
>X max amount of damage that is being inflicted could be based on % max health, 10% of your ship's max health max from a player on your team and/or MAX amount of team damage you can receive from your team as a whole.
After receiving X damage, you will no longer receive team damage. But the TKer will still have damage beig inflicted to their ship if they do keep shooting.
Exceptions: For the sake of DIV plays at times, "1)" will be excluded for members in a DIVISION

2) Current punishment for the TKer is too lenient and needs to be harsher. Current system is like "Pink Status" where you can clear it in 2 coop games which you know, its pretty much nothing. "Orange Status" (obtained after you TK again after clearing your Pink status) where you are forced into playing COOP for a certain amount of battles. And we can also agree this Orange status is nothing. 
>Amount of coop games given should no longer be fixed to 2 coop games only. Dealing 40k TK damage is equivalent to accidental TK (Where a player is doing a driveby and your shells RNGed into their ship for like 5k/Careless torp spread where it accidentally killed one of your 3k health team or accidentally landing 2 torps on your teammate), the higher amount of X team damage you dealt your team, the higher amount of battles you need to clear your status.
>Repeated offenders where they receive Pink status X amount of times in a week and/or month will be required to play 2x or more amount of battles in coop.

And yes, I am more than aware some players are just VERY BAD where they would fall into some of those punishments for their carelessness but it is pretty much well deserved as this players do really frustrate everyone.

Do excuse me a little, kinda brainstormed this in a short amount of time, I am sure there are areas where this could be further improved on. Please leave your feedback. Oh, and take note of image below,

Thanks,
HoChunHao, not a Smolensk main
 

 

S I L E N C E  S M O L E  M A I N

your words have no power here

[Manacetamol]

This is my concern

By the fault of the server, not my fault

On 9/16/2020 at 12:06 PM, Manacetamol said:

Auto kick and auto pink

credits lost = uncountable

[Skarhabek]

how about zero TK damage.......

[Mechfori]

while I generally agree with the principle and reasoning behind the suggestion , am not keen on the implementation . Limiting TK damage simply encourage even more reckless and careless behavior and I've seen too many of such, Yoshino and Ashhashio who would torp from back lane disregarding if teammates grouping up ahead ( somehow most Shima with 20K know otherwise ), Cruiser who would shoot into enemy BB despite your BB is in with a brawl with the said enemy , and we can go on and on .... right now the issue is not the intentional TK, its the whole meta of NOT FIGHTING, and farming only and using the teammates as meat-shield and fire bait. They just do not see consequential damage deal as even anything a issue, they believe its YOUR issue instead of his / hers

If players keep seeing nothing but teammate as expendables and to be used, the action of these consequential TK will not stop and right now it is so, very much so ...

And as for intentional TK , well let's put it that way there's the impulsive / emotional discharge and then there's the malicious ones ( just as the OP's experienced ) .. I flatly admit sometime I can be emotional and on a less than rational stance, just fire or torp a teammate usually out of frustration of he/she done something really really stupid or stubbly refuse to fight and support ( and I must say been seeing too many of these ) and Yes I do agree the action should be penalized, as to how I had no idea yet 

[Adorable_KeQing]

55 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

its the whole meta of NOT FIGHTING, and farming only and using the teammates as meat-shield and fire bait

Is this what you do in your DDs? Dont get me wrong, sometimes I do find your feedback reasonable but most of the time, I just ya know...............
Like your help is appreciated trying to give feedback to other players as if you do know your stuff but it just doesn't show in your performance. This kind of information generally misleads your average player which greatly reduces the quality of players. And yes, I have seen your performance.

55 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Limiting TK damage simply encourage even more reckless and careless behavior

How does limiting TK damage simply encouraging even more reckless and careless behavour? By limiting I meant a the player getting TKed, not the one dealing TK damage. The one doing the TKing will still have damage being applied to them.
Unless you meant "Oh, I know I wont eat as much damage now so I can ignore my surroundings and just eat it"

55 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

they believe its YOUR issue instead of his / hers

This I can agree on, "It is not my fault my torps hit you (even if I launched it in your way), you should have seen my torps coming"

55 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

If players keep seeing nothing but teammate as expendables and to be used, the action of these consequential TK will not stop and right now it is so, very much so ...

Well, most decent/good players do not do that, but obviously there are exceptions. Again, I/we do know what is best for us and depending on the situation at hand.
But as you should have known by now, the average playerbase is just utter XXXX, obviously I would use my teammate that is misplaying (as in putting themselves in stupid positions, rushing it, etc) to my advantage and my action varies. If me going in to support him/it puts me in harms way, would just hold back and use him as a meatshield as I try to farm whoever that is dealing dmg to him/it.

[ADrunkDropbear]

So your solution is to make regular/exclusive Coop players suffer even more from TK players? Because why do we even matter right? 

It's not like TK players can't be forced to complete tutorial or training missions that net them no exp or credits as punisment. No, you suggest to make it impossible for those of us who don't play random to suffer from being inundated with salty or incompetant idiots that will happily ruin our games and still recieve a reward for it. That's not a punishment, you're justifying their behaviour and allowing them to do it to other players.

While the TK punishment system does need a rework, the punishment should not be to punish players who had nothing to do with it. Forcing TK players to play together in operations where they recieve no reward other than the removal of their status and be allowed to play in randoms/ranked or even coop again means that only the TK players would be punished.

[Mechfori]

Ultimately its a simple mentality on hand ... even if am seeing many player who might be doing stupid things , most of them ( and me included ) are not and would not intentionally using teammate to the end as fire bait and meat shield, and you are saying you would do that and you would not get into any danger / fire lane , but would put your teammates in there or intentionally leaving them there for no other purpose than to use them and benefit you the individual.  Your answer simply mean you are one of those who would actively avoid fire fight and be using teammates to be expendables to the end ... and no I do not  do that and that's why my performance is what it is now, cause am not into that .. if I do I might actually get better results ...

The mentality hurts both way .. you might think its wise and smart, but losing teammates is never a plus in a game , and in the end when I see teammate who do that I made it very sure I refuse and will not grant support to them disregard ... yes in the end more defeat but that better than me having to walk into firing lane just cause some sees that me being to be used when they will  only farm and not fight ... and seen that too many times already again

Yes average players are , well I would not term them XXXX , but yes people sometime made mistakes, play stupid .. that do not equate them to be expendables. And if you had no understanding why limiting TK damage simply will encourage even more reckless / careless behavior, just reflect on yourself ... you see no precaution to be taken to launch torp even with teammaes in front, you see nothing wrong to use them as meat shield and fire bait , so with even less and limited TK damage , guess what's the stance

I cannot speak for others, but when I shoot or launch torp I try to made it very sure am not going to shoot or accidentally torp a teammate , might be I am wrong , should just shoot and torp disregard, to hell with them .. sorry am not too comfortable wit that idea - Well you complain when you got Tk'ed but now you are saying its all the receiving end's fault if got Tk'ed . Hmm .. kind of hard to see the logic here

 

[EULA_violator]

54 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Ultimately its a simple mentality on hand ... even if am seeing many player who might be doing stupid things , most of them ( and me included ) are not and would not intentionally using teammate to the end as fire bait and meat shield, and you are saying you would do that and you would not get into any danger / fire lane , but would put your teammates in there or intentionally leaving them there for no other purpose than to use them and benefit you the individual.  Your answer simply mean you are one of those who would actively avoid fire fight and be using teammates to be expendables to the end ... and no I do not  do that and that's why my performance is what it is now, cause am not into that .. if I do I might actually get better results ...

ok I thought I won't get involved but this just triggered me

I've met you 3 times in-game and i've posted 2 of those times on the forums

every single damn time you refused to cap because there wasnt anyone who yoloed into the cap with you

then you commence to try and shittalk the team because "GUNS DONT PUSH UP" even though there are plenty of ships who have radar that can cover the cap or have risked their damn ships to get to a good crossfire position on the cap.

and you have the nerve to complain about teammates being expandable when your whole argument is that your teammates wont throw their lives away for your capping xp?

i don't know if anyone else is dumb enough to listen to your advice but excuse me if i don't take advice from someone with PR redder than communist china and a WR worse than an average bot (45%) , you deserve that shit WR way more than your teammates deserved you

[Adorable_KeQing]

3 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Ultimately its a simple mentality on hand ... even if am seeing many player who might be doing stupid things , most of them ( and me included ) are not and would not intentionally using teammate to the end as fire bait and meat shield, and you are saying you would do that and you would not get into any danger / fire lane , but would put your teammates in there or intentionally leaving them there for no other purpose than to use them and benefit you the individual.  Your answer simply mean you are one of those who would actively avoid fire fight and be using teammates to be expendables to the end ... and no I do not  do that and that's why my performance is what it is now, cause am not into that .. if I do I might actually get better results ...

First of all, how am I expected, to push in, to support a teammate that is doing questionable plays? Yes, I can go in and support him but is it any good if I were to push with that questionable play player and get msyelf killing when I could have stayed back and not throw myself away???

24 minutes ago, HoChunHao said:

But as you should have known by now, the average playerbase is just utter XXXX, obviously I would use my teammate that is misplaying (as in putting themselves in stupid positions, rushing it, etc) to my advantage and my action varies. If me going in to support him/it puts me in harms way, would just hold back and use him as a meatshield as I try to farm whoever that is dealing dmg to him/it.

Here, let me quote myself again. "obviously I would use my teammate that is misplaying (as in putting themselves in stupid positions, rushing it, etc) to my advantage and my action varies. If me going in to support him/it puts me in harms way, would just hold back and use him as a meatshield as I try to farm whoever that is dealing dmg to him/it.". So, let me repeat it again, it all varies. I am thinking the bigger picture as in to win the game.

I am not putting myself in harms way just to save some pepega player that is doing very questionable plays just so he might survive. I do what I do to try to win the game.
Winning the game >>> Saving any player doing very questionable stuff that if I do go help might get myself killed and loose the game.

8 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

Well you complain when you got Tk'ed but now you are saying its all the receiving end's fault if the got Tk'ed . Hmm .. kind of hard to see the logic here

And since when I said that? This? This I can agree on, "It is not my fault my torps hit you (even if I launched it in your way), you should have seen my torps coming"
I am referring to the player that launched torps carelessly, not from the perspective of the player that got TKed

[Mechfori]

Just now, Drakon233 said:

ok i thought i wont get involved but this just triggered me

i've met you 3 times in game

every single damn time you refused to cap because there wasnt anyone who yoloed into the cap with you

then you commence to try and shittalk the team because "GUNS DONT PUSH UP" even though there are plenty of ships who have radar that can cover the cap or have risked their damn ships to get to a good crossfireing positions on the cap.

and you have the nerve to complaine about teammates being expandable when your whole argument is that your teammates wont throw their lives away for your capping xp?

i dont know if anyone else is dumb enough to listen to your advice but excuse me if i dont take advice from someone with PR lower than communist china and a WR worse than a average bot (45%) 

So its wrong to NOT go into a cap knowing enemy there waiting and without any guns support, sorry heard this too many times, DD are to be used, expended, you go , but we will not , that is the answer you had or you hold, then my answer is .. well NO ... you can had any , but playing in a DD especially in high tier its always survival first , do not tell me to go cap, go scout, go screening, go flanking, go into firing lane if you guns will not yourselves .. and yes I practice that in game .. in short the team refuse to push then the DD refuse to push. the team want to stay back and stay safe, so do the DD , DD players own no one ...

I've seen you and others who are active on this forum and I shall not name names, actually you are quite willing to PUSH as far as am concerned, but sorry not many others , in fact very few others ...

Now back to the topic, in games you meet me do I internationally go TK or any of such !! Might be your stance is I should or what ???

[dejiko_nyo]

1 hour ago, Manacetamol said:

credits lost = uncountable

Coming from someone with at least a billion credits in reserve? :P

[dejiko_nyo]

50 minutes ago, toxicsalt said:

So your solution is to make regular/exclusive Coop players suffer even more from TK players? Because why do we even matter right? 

Hell no. Even we don't want them in our playground. Period. 

[Skarhabek]

1 hour ago, Skarhabek said:

how about zero TK damage.......

Seriously no one consider this idea?......

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________

2 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

Proposed changes,
1) Limit the amount of X damage you can receive from someone on your team (Per player basis/as a whole), and after receiving X amount of damage from someone on your team, you take no further damage, the TKer will still have damage being inflicting to their ship if they do keep shooting.

what will happen if your ship have less than 2K HP (less than X threshold) then someone intentionally kill you? 

of course the TKers gone pink... but are you still not mad?

2 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

>Repeated offenders where they receive Pink status X amount of times in a week and/or month will be required to play 2x or more amount of battles in coop. blah blah blah

 

what will happen if someone decide to troll more in CO OP by killing everyone in Co-OP?

what happen to player trollish enough to keep TK amount as much as possible?

 

IMAGINE, I HAVE QUOTA TO KILL 5 SHIP EACH MONTH AFTER YOUR IDEA IMPLEMENTED COMPARED TO 20 KILL WITHOUT YOUR IDEA....

KILL IS KILL, its become less doesnt mean its gone.

 

______________________________________________

1. your idea require more programming, WG just lazy ass and we know it.... your idea wont be implemented

2. even if your idea being implemented, further testing and tweaking is required to decide..... which is require effort.....

3. WoWs is not only for competitive player, THERE IS ALSO NOOB, OLD MAN AND KIDs.... what will happen if they made mistake?

4. your idea doesnt stop KHORNE WORSHIPPER, KILL IS KILL... even if i have 1 kill quota each month I WILL DO IT.

5. LtDanIcecream will be mad if someone decide to kill him when playing Co-Op

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

Solution : TK DEAL NO DAMAGE

 

- no effort programming

- NO WORRIES

- noob friendly

- who will againts this idea? he must be impostor!

[fishbed70]

My first post in this forum, as a newbie player with slightly less than a 1000 random games.

I have experienced a few times, during the initial first min of the game, where ships start their engines and move out, I saw players started shooting sideways dangerously ahead the paths of teammates ships. Obviously intending to miss, but is clearly sort of targeted harassment. They are not accidental fat-finger triggers, that happen sometimes we all understand, but are intended shootings.

Sometimes I wonder why would they do that? Creating animosity within teammates at the beginning of a game, that is just plain stupid.

Then I ever saw in one battle, two adjacent teammates start shooting each other in the first minute, perhaps the other ship not happy with the harassment recieved. Really childish.

[Mechfori]

17 minutes ago, fishbed70 said:

My first post in this forum, as a newbie player with slightly less than a 1000 random games.

I have experienced a few times, during the initial first min of the game, where ships start their engines and move out, I saw players started shooting sideways dangerously ahead the paths of teammates ships. Obviously intending to miss, but is clearly sort of targeted harassment. They are not accidental fat-finger triggers, that happen sometimes we all understand, but are intended shootings.

Sometimes I wonder why would they do that? Creating animosity within teammates at the beginning of a game, that is just plain stupid.

Then I ever saw in one battle, two adjacent teammates start shooting each other in the first minute, perhaps the other ship not happy with the harassment recieved. Really childish.

its usually a ship signalling to that others that he / she should speed up and join the group instead of just sitting or slow pacing . These days it happen a lot , many players intentionally slow pace, stop dead or even back off right from start , pending others to push and not joining to help unless he / she sees an absolute superior tactical situation, and at first sign of any real fire fight , just flee . Staying back allows them the luxury of doing that. And equally and quite expecting so those who do speed forth usually are not happy about it , firing into the ships path signal that and its a simple gesture that says " SPEED UP & MOVE UP "

if part of the team is all about not getting into a fire fight and part of the team is about getting into a fire fight then ....

[GoodMorning_MFs]

3 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

the player that is on the receiving even of being TKed is punished harder compared to the one that is inflicting the damage.

Indeed, it outright deprives the victims' ability to contribute, especially if the damage nearly kills them. While the convict only suffers from getting a new status, the credit compensation is measly as well, tbh I don't even know how does it work, did the credits get deducted from the convict's account and transferred to the victims? 

3 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

Limit the amount of X damage you can receive from someone on your team

IIRC torp damage has been reduced, but gun damage, which is shown as an example, was not reduced. This should be implemented. 

Maybe something from the Rainbow Six Siege mechanics can be used, passage below is copied from Rainbow Six Siege wiki (tbh I quit that game long ago so I am not sure if this mechanic is good or not, but on paper it looks useful):

The mechanic activates if a player intentionally damages or kills their teammates. After a certain amount of friendly fire damage has been dealt, the offending player will start to damage themselves. Additionally, they will no longer be able to damage teammates. If a player kills a teammate, the affected player will have the option to confirm if the kill was intentional or not. If confirmed, the system will issue a warning, with the next offense resulting in a removal from the match. If the kill was marked as unintentional, the system will not issue a warning. Should no action be taken by the affected player, a warning will be issued by default.

1 hour ago, Mechfori said:

playing in a DD especially in high tier its always survival first

Somehow you are able to deviate the topic with this same **** YET AGAIN, Jesus. Yes, this sentence is correct, this mindset is fine. 

1 hour ago, Mechfori said:

do not tell me to go cap, go scout, go screening, go flanking, go into firing lane

But this? This is not how you should be doing if you want to be useful to the team. 

Seriously, you complaint about everything not supporting you. But in return you are not supporting the team as well, you are not doing things that a DD is design to do, you are doing the same crappy behavior as the BBs you complaint about. 

So in what world do you think you have the rights to complaint about BBs and CAs being passive? You are one of them.

If you have that passive thinking while playing DD and unwilling to do the things you are design to, why still suffer in them? And putting others into suffering as well for having people like you playing as a DD. Kek I really need to be looking out for DDs like this so I can forget about trying hard to win

[Mechfori]

first of all I do not complain about them I simply state a  fact ... no DD play are to be rendered if the guns do not do their part , and I do not deviate from the post I merely answer someone ... who are the one who deviate from it , my statement had been " do not tell me to go cap, go scout, go screening, go flanking, go into firing lane if you guns will not yourselves  " pls do not take only part of it and mean it so ...

and may I repeat, no I will not do that if the guns refuse to do theirs, hiding behind islands unable to even had fire arc to shoot enemies, not in position to suppress enemy fire, no attempt to drive off enemy Radar ... is it not all too common ... I do know its a question without a answer , you want DD to out play you had to provide the Close Support, the AA Cover, the Fire Suppression .. is it that hard to understand , if so ... it might be high time you re examine what a gun can or cannot do, or rather will or will not do in these cases.

so BB had a stance to go self preservation, Cruiser had a stance to go self preservation, why should DD not being allowed that .. and in fact this is part of what made consequential TK damage so much more common these days .. people are seeing their own ( farming, hunting, HP, survival ) as more important , that in itself is not a issue, the issue is that they sees it as using teammate to this end that create more situation where consequential and collateral damage are deal and this further drive the passiveness in game ...

45 minutes ago, rookieFTW said:

....

If you have that passive thinking while playing DD and unwilling to do the things you are design to, why still suffer in them? And putting others into suffering as well for having people like you playing as a DD. Kek I really need to be looking out for DDs like this so I can forget about trying hard to win

ANd to your Q - no I do not find playing passive suffering , in fact its usually playing active ( with most of the team really only care about passive farming ) that's really suffering .. so when the team play passive, I play passive ... if guns always had this - Its very dangerous, you go first - stance then my answer is simply NO and the same question must be asked towards the Cruisers who would not forward support, BB who would not gun and tank , to do the things they are designed to !!  but at least I do not resort to TK , which I must say on so many occasions I am tempted to

[Adorable_KeQing]

That one bloody darned sentence from that smarty pants like he knows stuff but it doesn't show simply deviated this whole thread into a DD talk now. If it's actually from someone who knows what they are talking about DDs, I am perfectly but from a player that tries to lecture us how to DD but plays like crab? Please Mechfori, be a good boy and join Neufert1 and go AFK/take a break please.

Getting hella frustrated seeing some smarty pants trying to prove their dammed point but their performance just doesn't show. Kindly keep away and stop deviating the thread from it's topic. Be a Neufert somewhere else please. 

[Adorable_KeQing]

2 hours ago, toxicsalt said:

So your solution is to make regular/exclusive Coop players suffer even more from TK players? Because why do we even matter right? 

It's not like TK players can't be forced to complete tutorial or training missions that net them no exp or credits as punisment. No, you suggest to make it impossible for those of us who don't play random to suffer from being inundated with salty or incompetant idiots that will happily ruin our games and still recieve a reward for it. That's not a punishment, you're justifying their behaviour and allowing them to do it to other players.

While the TK punishment system does need a rework, the punishment should not be to punish players who had nothing to do with it. Forcing TK players to play together in operations where they recieve no reward other than the removal of their status and be allowed to play in randoms/ranked or even coop again means that only the TK players would be punished.

I shall quote myself again from what I said above, look below

4 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

And yes, I am more than aware some players are just VERY BAD where they would fall into some of those punishments for their carelessness but it is pretty much well deserved as this players do really frustrate everyone.

Do excuse me a little, kinda brainstormed this in a short amount of time, I am sure there are areas where this could be further improved on. Please leave your feedback. Oh, and take note of image below,

Again, I thank you for your feedback about this for your input from a COOP main/exclusive player's perspective. As a random player myself, I am sure I have missed something. Again, thanks for pointing it out.

[Onlinegamer]

4 hours ago, HoChunHao said:

 

 

[Mechfori]

15 minutes ago, HoChunHao said:

That one bloody darned sentence from that smarty pants like he knows stuff but it doesn't show simply deviated this whole thread into a DD talk now. If it's actually from someone who knows what they are talking about DDs, I am perfectly but from a player that tries to lecture us how to DD but plays like crab? Please Mechfori, be a good boy and join Neufert1 and go AFK/take a break please.

Getting hella frustrated seeing some smarty pants trying to prove their dammed point but their performance just doesn't show. Kindly keep away and stop deviating the thread from it's topic. Be a Neufert somewhere else please. 

I do not try to lecture , I was on the topic, whose the one who start the DD talk on this thread, well not me , so its wrong to answer someone .. hmm interesting !! And .. might be not the answer you want but - I enjoy playing just as you all do ... so why not. You can keep playing your fashion and I can keep playing my fashion , its so happen that if the stance is self preservation first before anything else then its self preservation before anything else ... its the same for you in a Cruiser, or someone in a BB or me in a DD

Be a good boy, learn that not everyone play the same , and not everyone need to do the part to HELP you , especially when your stance is you & your own first ; then expect no less and no more from others. All the time I am saying is what I would do ; not telling others what they should do. But I've digress , sure I did. Will get into this since you ask ... this mentality of me first and everyone else not mattering does contribute to more consequential and collateral TK damage or even kill , why , cause people are playing to best theirs and theirs own and that to a point of excluding teammate's safety and well being , those 20KM torp from Yoshino / Ashashio, those HE spamming from Cruiser into brawling duel going on , those long range BB gun fire into a fray despite knowing teammates there. Am sure you've seen it all. It contribute to the overall game meta of more and more of these TK damages , unintentional they are , but innocent they are not.

I do agree that the Penalty as of now is pretty useless , that though does not mean we should limit TK damage , am against it , TK damage is part of what made this a team game, if a player is reckless and TK damage a teammate , or even made a kill, he/she is in turn diminishing his / her chance to a victory and create in team animosity, which lead to less than effective play and interaction between and among the team. Its a mechanism that incentive proper good and cooperative play and negatively incentive against reckless and careless play , if we introduce limit to TK damage , then look no further than Operations , individuals are only going to go all out their own farming and hunt and care none cause they know their shells and Torp do nothing to the teammate even if they score a hit. Yes zero TK damage is already in game and its in Scenarios / Operations and do you want to made Random more like it , where its more like everyone for themselves only kind of play. Would that not compromise the total experience.

In a round about fashion consequential and collateral TK damage already penalize the said player , but at the same time it penalize the non involving members of the team also. Any form of penalization thus should be considered that which do not further penalize the innocent and non involving ones. Going Pink and the number of games demanded if not the bes solution, is at least doing that alright. Until some better suggestion ..............

Its the intentional TK actions that need to be further curbed , and am not seeing anything mentioned here. It probably should be expected, there is really no good way to identify or isolate intentional TK behavior from that of unintentional one unless its done in so balant a fashion as described in the original post. I do not think there is any automated computational method that can allow the game to judge and act on something this fashion , in the end it will require players putting in a ticket and investigation by the Customer Support . And I do not see anything else that can be done to alleviate that. The only other options is to go heavy hand on any TK damage / kill and simply slap onto it heavy amount of punishment , I seriously doubt if its the right thing to do>

 

[Verytis]

6 hours ago, Skarhabek said:

how about zero TK damage.......

This. This specific problem on our hands wouldn't even exist if TK wasn't possible.

Like...what purpose does it even serve? Besides realism.

Not to mention that WG staff has to waste time going through this kind of stuff...assuming they don't just leave it to their automated system, which wouldn't be surprising? Don't need to fix if no money involved.

 

5 hours ago, Mechfori said:

Now back to the topic, in games you meet me do I internationally go TK or any of such !! Might be your stance is I should or what ???

If you take your ship to the back and do nothing the entire game, it has the same effect of a TK. In both cases, your team is down 1 ship.

Except in this case, you can penalise the perpetrator however you like.

 

[Mechfori]

2 hours ago, Verytis said:

This. This specific problem on our hands wouldn't even exist if TK wasn't possible.

Like...what purpose does it even serve? Besides realism.

Not to mention that WG staff has to waste time going through this kind of stuff...assuming they don't just leave it to their automated system, which wouldn't be surprising? Don't need to fix if no money involved.

 

If you take your ship to the back and do nothing the entire game, it has the same effect of a TK. In both cases, your team is down 1 ship.

Except in this case, you can penalise the perpetrator however you like.

 

We already had zero TK damage in Scenarios / Operations it does no way encourage team play at all, all it does is freely allow even more reckless play . And let me reiterate I do not take my boat and stay at the back all the game but I also will not take my boat out to vanguard the front if the teams' guns fail to , or in most cases choose simply not to provide the needed tactical cover ;. They had the right to prioritize their self preservation over team play and choose not to get into fire fight, and so do anyone playing a DD - in that case then the whole team just stay back lane and wait for something to happen then .. and if so , so be it ..

[S4pp3R]

9 hours ago, Drakon233 said:

blurb

Honestly that's just lazy mate... There's no need to go after someone's stats/whatevs, attack the point not the person/player. If you need a punching bag, take aim at me; I'm not going to care and if anything will find it amusing.

 

@HoChunHao I agree with your general point, although I'm pretty sure the current system is fairly similar to what you are suggesting.

Frankly the punishments need to be a lot harsher but they need to code the pre-conditions better. I'm not sure why a muppet ramming me after I've gone pink extends my pinkness for example? And this minor annoyance is on top of the actual issues you've detailed above.

I think the problem WG is having is that they don't want to make it too harsh to discourage newer players (by and large those who will go pink more) and subsequently have a fairly lenient system.

Team damage in general should be a thing, I like it in a game sense, I like knowing that by getting as close as possible dissuades an enemy torp attack on me. The penalties for it need to be more, and as you've mentioned the point at which that damage is reflected should be higher. The gold-plated simple solution is to have an even higher-reflected damage percentage. Basically if you attack an ally, you explode.

But TBH the whole thing needs an overhaul, I suspect a lot of the team-damage penalties are the way they are because of earlier iterations tied to allied ramming. Like many things in game, they kept changing things until it worked instead of designing it better from the beginning.