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hurricaneflyer

Should Kagero or Yugumo be skipped?

Which one to FXP...?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Which ship do I FXP research and skip?

    • Yugumo
      1
    • Kagero
      2
    • Man up you coward.
      31

25 comments in this topic

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99
[IJN]
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So I've come to the point where I have finished my Akatsuki grind and can now buy the Kagero.

BUT, I haven't heard too many good things about Kagero OR Yugumo other than the everyday torpedoboat expectations.

Seeing as from Tier 8 both of these ships will see radar very frequently added to the burden of CVs I've decided that I can FXP one of them.

And in case anyone tells me to save up for a FXP premium, None of them currently available ones (Alaska,Azuma,Ägir,Friesland,Småland and Hayate) interest me and short of a miracle  (Kronstadt) I don't think I'll ever need one.

 

Edited by hurricaneflyer

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635
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@hurricaneflyer

Kagero is a bit tricky to play. You have to stay very alert and be very, very sneaky.

Yugumo is more forgiving as you have enough guns to blast your way out of mistakes if you are lucky, and the torps are 12 km, not 10 km. Yugumo is one of the most powerful and dangerous T9 DDs in the game.

If you can't do well in either of those you will get to Shima and just make a fool of yourself, losing credits and karma every game.

 

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201
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I recommend you thoroughly enjoy the pain of power creep by grinding both of them like me 

Tbh both of them are painful to play on the current meta, with only stealth as their strength but gaining vision is so much easier now, and both of them struggle to get away from trouble with their average speed and low hp pool. They can't effectively fight for caps as their DPM is a joke (but their DPH is on the top 3 among peers, so aim well if chance is provided), unless the enemy DD is pleb enough to eat your torps in smoke or have 0 idea of how to contest caps. Their main selling point of torpedoes is getting meh now, as most players are becoming passive and torpedoes will be useless on a kiting enemy, with only 8 per salvo and long cooldown, it breaks my soul every time I miss the torps (though you can run torpedo reload build, but in the current meta? No lol. At least smoke can provide you & your team with some tactical usages)

But still, both of them taught me a lot of lessons on how to DD, as I didn't learn my lessons properly while playing US DDs, resulting in laughable stats in every US DDs... I now have learned how to scout, how to blind torp smokes, how to position myself, how to contest caps with natural disadvantages on my side, how to select targets for torping, how to avoid planes etc. Their long reload on guns and torps made me extra cautious when doing stuffs, but when guns/torps hit, the enormous alpha strike they brought is kind of rewarding. 

If you really want to skip the pain, I suggest skipping the Kagero, the 10km torps simply do not have enough reach in my opinion. While you can slot the torpedo reload upgrade in the Yugumo, bringing the damn long 114 second reload to 90-ish seconds, which is a bit tolerable. Plus Yugumo gets the type 93 mod 3 torps, which has an ok range of 12km, a top-tier 23k damage per torp hit, and a decent 70 knots speed with upgrades. 

I just got my Shima a day ago, and I still feel powerless as I really can't outfight T10 DD peers, such is the life of IJN torp line DDs:cap_old:

On the other hand, I have a shift in life schedule while playing them, as I play in midnight while grinding them. Its a bit....easier as midnight I have met some really questionable plays/bots, and IJN DD punishes plebs/bots extra hard (while struggle to deal with decent players/unicums), the same goes to the German BBs. 

Edited by rookieFTW
some additions
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1,175
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The torpboat problem does not really end in Shimakaze.

Sure Shima has 15 torps per salvo, and each deals massive damage. But the question is; can you use them to hit the enemies as consistently guns do? Mind you the Japanese torps have huge detection range by default (Asashio is the only exception).

Another problem is that literally everyone can outgun you. Shima is in the same tier with Harugumo, Minotaur, Smolensk, Colbert, Marceau, and Halland. All these ships can wipe out Shima before Shima shoots her 2nd salvo.

I rarely play Kagero. Not because CV, or radar. But because the torp rarely hits the target. I've played both Yugumo & Shima on PT server, and they are good only because the players in PT server are generally suicidal enough to make the torps easier to use.

Edited by Reinhard_of_Avercland

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10
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I wouldn't suggest you to skip them.

Kagero is the beginner guide to high tier torpedoes ship. You have the smoke, the torpedoes and decent stealth, which you can practice your torpedoes skills, and situation awareness, such as knowing when you need capping, escaping, spottinging, or torpedoing etc. Just remember you are not a gunboat but support ship which helps teammate to cap, spots the enemies and launches torpedoes to restrict the opponents movement or deal heavy blow to them.

 

Meanwhile Yugero is the best ship in IJN torpDD line. Better than Shimakaze I would say. Yugero has the best gun in the line, better torpedoes reload than Shimakaze, and lesser chance to encounter CV (tier 9). 

Some tips for playing them:

1. Remember the radar range of all ships which are basically 12km, 10km, 9.5km etc. Avoid wandering within into their radar range unless you are sure their radar are in CD. 

2. Press P, close your AA at all time unless within smoke or being pinned by their plane.

3. Survive and spot is your top priority, torp and cap comes second.

4. Make use of your decent stealth and smoke.

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99
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3 minutes ago, Reinhard_of_Avercland said:

The torpboat problem does not really end in Shimakaze.

Penguins of the Madagascar Private staring with text of "Well ok then" on  him : MemeTemplatesOfficial

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635
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He meant "Shimakaze does not solve any of the problems you perceive Kagero and Yugumo to have"

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2,101
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I wouldn’t skip either of them. Both of them are good ships as far as the torpedo boat line goes.

And both are essentially trainers to the Shimakaze. I’d argue that Yugumo May even be better.

If you don’t play them, you won’t get used to the high tier play of torpedo boats. If you’re going to skip them due to being hard to play, you may as well avoid Shima as well.

Don’t get me wrong, I love my IJN torp boats, those 3 all have best concealment in tier (for what it’s worth), and hard hitting torpedos.

The guns have high HE alpha, and Yugumo and Shima actually have a workable reload, so you can pick off low Hp DDs.

Torpedos are hard hitting, but have slow reload, and large detection range. These days, that means they’re better for area denial than sinking ships. One of the hardest hitting nerfs to the class over 5 years has been than Most high tier players now know to NOT sail in a straight line at same speed.
 

So, yeah, either work through those two, or just skip the whole line.

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6
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I really enjoyed them both! I'm a 49.5% WR DD player (53% ish with other classes) but I had a 60%WR in both Kagero and Yugumo. I didn't find radar too much of a problem since I didn't try to contest caps with them - I just spotted and used torps.  The current meta seems quite BB heavy, which means plenty of targets.

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Yugumo is far better than Kagero for their respective tiers. 

Having said that, the IJN torp boat line is in my opinion the most painful to play line in the game.  They do not have anywhere near enough going for them - their torps have insufficient range and long reload, their guns have poor dpm and slow traverse, they have low health, they are slow, they have poor AA, their smokes are average.  Their only real plus is their excellent concealment, which is okay to have, but really good concealment isn't actually particularly useful offensively if you aren't DD hunting - for torp boats it is nice to have to help you defensively in DD engagements, but not a particularly great strength.

Yugumo used to be a good ship, but she's been powercrept by a number of things - the proliferation of radar (especially 12km radar); the CV rework and the associated significant increase in the CV population; and the advent of much better DD gunboats to hunt them and torp boats to do their job better.

Overall, the line is very weak, and if you're already a DD player learning how to play the class or trying to improve, doing it with one hand tied behind your back is probably not going to help.

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695
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My take - stay on Akatsuki and play it to train yourself for the next 3 , you are going to face T9 , T8 but not the mad house of T10. I would not skip them but had to agree that the whole Torp Boat play especially on IJN had been over power crepted and life is hard for anyone playing them.

Edited by Mechfori

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2,672
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I skipped yugumo because I couldn't bother with the yugumo grind. That was 4 years ago. 

The problem now is that the meta makes it hard for your torps to hit, as if it wasn't difficult enough 4 years back. Your concealment and spotting are the only advantages for kagero which iirc has the best concealment for t8 to 10 dds. Unfortunately spotting doesn't get you xp.

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3
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Others have said it, but basically it's the current meta more than the ships. With all the CV spam, radar and hybrids with fast torps (hello pan euro), it's a tough undertaking to do well.

Having said that, they are good to build your skills, if you can do well in these two boats you can do well in anything. Bear in mind also that the torps hit hard, and with reload you can put a lot in the water. torp reload is also the ultimate challenge with no smoke! 

The guns might lack dpm, but they do pack a whack, so don't ignore them.

Edited by AlexA125

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If you don't want to play Yugumo, then I don't know why you would want to play the Shima. I also don't know why people would want to entirely skip a ship and don't just accelerate, it's not a binary skip or full grind question. I'll use FXP to upgrade modules as some ships are just painful stock. And I have been known the FXP the last 20% after being utterly bored (Pre buff Izumo).

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My recommendation is to save your free xp and just grind the line.

The Kagerou is a great litmus test for high tier IJN torp boat gameplay . It will teach you everything you need to know for how to play high tier torp boats like how to manage your concealment and enemy radar.

It is a good indicator of whether you will enjoy the rest of the line or not. Apart from access to 12km torps and better guns, the general playstyle of Yuugumo and Shimakaze is not that much different Kagerou. So if you dislike the Kagerou, you can might as well stop the grind there.

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On 9/20/2020 at 9:45 AM, dejiko_nyo said:

The problem now is that the meta makes it hard for your torps to hit, as if it wasn't difficult enough 4 years back.

Because back then all types of planes could spot the incoming torps, and you know how many squadrons CV could deploy at that time. Oh and ship-based planes also could spot torps. Reworked CVs used to keep the ability, until the universal "balancing" happened. And yet the CV haters want the old things back?

Now all planes cannot spot torps. However the core issue is the amount of ships that have hydro today, which is a lot more than before.

  1. We have British DD, which is arguably better than the German DDs in the role of spotting the torps.
  2. More cruiser lines that have hydro, only the pasta cruisers are the exceptions.
  3. US CL line can now equip both hydro & DefAA simultaneously.
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20
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Kagero in T10 can be challenging, but not unplayable. Every now and then MM will relent and you will be facing T6 BBs and no radar. Suddenly it's strengths will be evident. The AA is still useless though.

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277
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They are both solid DDs, had my fair share in them,
Kagero could be more challenging when you are in a T9-T10 game with rather limiting torp range of 10km,

But I do find success in it, with the use of TRB, you got be to be quite balsy to pull it off
image.thumb.png.eb0a667c95395be154d19d769a79bf86.png
50% of my games in Kagero are smoke, only got better when I used TRB. And as for Yugumo, it is purely TRB, no smoke.
So you gotta plan well and have some good knowledge on how to DD. And yes, there are fxxkups on my end with TRB putting myself in questionable situations that got myself killed.

So yeah, I don't think there is a need to skip any of them.

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15 minutes ago, HoChunHao said:

But I do find success in it, with the use of TRB, you got be to be quite balsy to pull it off.

Forgive me for asking a stupid question, but Shimakaze doesn't have access to TRB, correct?

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9 minutes ago, hurricaneflyer said:

Forgive me for asking a stupid question, but Shimakaze doesn't have access to TRB, correct?

Imagine the horror if Shima has access to it

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99
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Just now, rookieFTW said:

Imagine the horror if Shima has access to it

Ah, thank you for answering.

Kitakami v0.5

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38 minutes ago, rookieFTW said:

Imagine the horror if Shima has access to it

It would be wonderful.

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4 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

It would be wonderful

MAKE SHIMA GREAT/RELEVANT AGAIN :fish_viking:

But tbh it might make my screen incredibly laggy...My potato laptop can't handle too much fishes in the water

Edited by rookieFTW
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