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S0und_Theif

ST, changes to AA and detectability ranges by air

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Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

 

Soon there will be a closed test session of changes to AA and detectability range by air:

  • Detectability range by air of all ships significantly reduced — by between 40-60%;
  • When activated with the 'P' key, AA defenses will no longer instantly operate at 100% capacity, but will instead gradually increase in efficiency, reaching 100% after 7 seconds. The inverse applies when deactivating AA with the same key;
  • AA guns start preliminary firing at planes at a range 30% higher than their maximum value. When flying in this outer aura, shell explosions appear above and below the course of a squadron, and continuous damage is not dealt.

These changes will allow players to choose between fighting planes or relying on stealth to avoid them in different situations. After lowering detectability ranges, AA guns could start firing while the ship was hidden. The mechanics of preliminary fire will exclude such situations, and the gradual increment of AA damage will protect planes from sudden and unexpected waves of AA fire after the guns are activated.

 

Link:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/63

 

 

 


Note: I am having difficulty understanding the second one. Halp.
Note: What is the point of the third one? Scare the planes?

Edited by S0und_Theif

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9 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

Note: I am having difficulty understanding the second one. Halp.

I think what it meant is that when you do decide to turn off your AA, it's effectiveness will slowly decrease in the span of 7 seconds and only after that, your AA will be fully turned off.
To make it into simpler terms, no more instantly going into stealth after you turn off your AA when the planes are out of your air detect.

And as for the 3rd one, treat it as an advance warning for the CV that is coming in for a strike, you have a max AA range of 6km and you leave it on, AA will start shooting at 7.8km onwards but only flaks above and below the squad, like an advance warning that you are coming close to a ship with its AA on.

So, this kinda does effect DD players, do you want to leave your AA on and be able to shoot down planes and/or deal damage to them or do you want to use that extra stealth you got from Detectability range by air of all ships significantly reduced — by between 40-60%, you got to make a choice. Leave it on? Sure, you can deal with planes but a CV player knows where you are and can time a proper strike.
And you chose stealth? Well, CV will have a harder time striking you unless that CV can premptively predict where you are and start the attack run.

When activated with the 'P' key, AA defenses will no longer instantly operate at 100% capacity, but will instead gradually increase in efficiency, reaching 100% after 7 seconds. The inverse applies when deactivating AA with the same key, this is somewhat a way for them to mitigate those huge bunch of flak on your face or damage when it comes to AA DDs that just pops their AA at max strength when you are closing in into their air detect. Notably those Pan European DDs, or DD players in general that wants to min max their stealth and AA.

Edited by HoChunHao
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kind of mixed ... interesting ... many so call strong AA ship are no longer really strong on AA and this is going to reduce their efficiency further, but for many others this looks to be favorable . CV lose something, and gain something with the plane vs surface ship encounter and engagement

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Just now, HoChunHao said:

I think what it meant is that when you do decide to turn off your AA, it's effectiveness will slowly decrease in the span of 7 seconds and only after that, your AA will be fully turned off.
To make it into simpler terms, no more instantly going into stealth after you turn off your AA when the planes are out of your air detect.

And also if you decide to fight the planes, you will have to factor in the 7 second needed to ramp up the AA, and 7 second is quite a long time for planes to fly somewhere

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The third one is Flaks will no longer gain Continous damage @S0und_Theif

 

This has been not fixed for 10 patches.

Edited by IJN_Katori
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hmm, what happens if I try to turn it off before I allowed it to fully ramp up over 7secs? I expect it'd take less time for it to turn off since it never ramped up.

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All ships have their air detection cut in half - this is huge. Now, turning off AA isn't just an option for Destroyers. Thunderer with 5km air detect? If the CV wants to keep it lit up (without being surface spotted, of course) it must stay in AA range. This is a very intriguing change and I hope it goes through without causing any unforeseen issues. Perhaps this will be the end of the spotting problems CVs cause which will be a big step towards balancing them.

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1 hour ago, HoChunHao said:

I think what it meant is that when you do decide to turn off your AA, it's effectiveness will slowly decrease in the span of 7 seconds and only after that, your AA will be fully turned off.
To make it into simpler terms, no more instantly going into stealth after you turn off your AA when the planes are out of your air detect.

 

So, this kinda does effect DD players, do you want to leave your AA on and be able to shoot down planes and/or deal damage to them or do you want to use that extra stealth you got from Detectability range by air of all ships significantly reduced — by between 40-60%, you got to make a choice. Leave it on? Sure, you can deal with planes but a CV player knows where you are and can time a proper strike.
And you chose stealth? Well, CV will have a harder time striking you unless that CV can premptively predict where you are and start the attack run.

When activated with the 'P' key, AA defenses will no longer instantly operate at 100% capacity, but will instead gradually increase in efficiency, reaching 100% after 7 seconds. The inverse applies when deactivating AA with the same key, this is somewhat a way for them to mitigate those huge bunch of flak on your face or damage when it comes to AA DDs that just pops their AA at max strength when you are closing in into their air detect. Notably those Pan European DDs, or DD players in general that wants to min max their stealth and AA.

I see. Although this "might" make little impact against CA/CL and BB gameplay, the detectability buff will surely help DD.

But as compensation for the detectability buff, AA guns will not operate at 100% efficiency until 7 seconds after activation.

It "kind of" looks good. :fish_book:

 

1 hour ago, IJN_Katori said:

The third one is Flaks will no longer gain Continous damage @S0und_Theif

This has been not fixed for 10 patches.

I didn't notice that. :fish_book:

But that is my fault as I have little experience in playing CV.

Good to know.

 

1 hour ago, HoChunHao said:

And as for the 3rd one, treat it as an advance warning for the CV that is coming in for a strike, you have a max AA range of 6km and you leave it on, AA will start shooting at 7.8km onwards but only flaks above and below the squad, like an advance warning that you are coming close to a ship with its AA on.

This point of view make sense. For CV pilots point of view.

 

I will give it a try and a look before the make the changes.

 

Oh and thank you both for clearing it up for me.

P.S. I will owe you both likes for now. Out of ammo for today again. 😞

 

Edited by S0und_Theif

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1 hour ago, S0und_Theif said:

Note: What is the point of the third one? Scare the planes?

AA and secondary gun is started with Unloaded state.

so when the AI detect enemy squadron within its attacking radius, its start loading the shells. and then Fire when loading is complete

This mainly affect Long Range AA, as they often not fire at their stated Maximum range.

 

Since The loading is varied depends on the AA Gun in question (it mainly never a problem for Fast reload Short to mid range AA), but it can be around 3 to 5 seconds for LR AA - it usualy have same loading time as secondary DP Battery.

so, You can have planes penetrated deep few km before your Long range AA begin attacking enemy aircraft. if your AA have 7.5km range, it might start attacking after Enemy aircraft within 6km as they closing in/pass your ship. combined with Engine boost you can totaly bypass Long Range and most of Mid range AA on most ships. as Long Range AA is where Flak is, it makes Flak ignorable for CV, and cant be depend on for Surface ships.

 

I think this prelimenary Firing supposed to fix that. so if your LR AA stated their radius is 8km, Now it will immidietly Dealing Damage. instead going through Loading Phase.

The Flak above and bellow (intentionaly try not Hit) prob just for Eyecandy

 

there LWM article explaining this Weird AA/Secondary thingy a while back, and why it makes no sense

Edited by humusz
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3 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Note: I am having difficulty understanding the second one. Halp.

Basically it means you can't instantly turn AA off or on. So you can't ambush planes in your AA DDs, neither can you immediately go dark by turning off your AA. 

This will be a huge nerf for AA DDs. You cannot wait for planes to wander into your AA before turning on your AA DFAA for full power. The planes will take less damage because the AA damage will need to power up for 7s first.

3 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Note: What is the point of the third one? Scare the planes?

Currently a lot of cruisers have their air detectability range the same as their AA range. This means that when a plane spots a cruiser, that cruiser's AA has already started firing and is already doing damage to the plane and throwing up flak clouds. In other words, there is literally no time to react. 

This change essentially serves as an early warning for planes, as it tells them that "hey there is hostile AA nearby take evasive action".

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With this change i think my gearing now Can focus her AA to HEDB, as long as i turn off my AA when rockets come....

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is it even worth it to try to even spec for AA on a DD considering that 7 sec ramp up and the early warning fire ... if you wait till the planes get into the detection range or near to it you still won't get anything done cause that 7 sec and for DD that 7 Sec is too long , and if they fire soon as plane near its too much of an early warning and DD are generally not the best to go head to head against planes

its totally different for some Cruiser though , and even for some BB , now they should really consider when and when not to use the P key

 

Edited by Mechfori

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I think this is the end of my Hakuryu 6.1km concealment torpedo bomber stealth spotting cruisers,and maybe gonna running into massive AA fire without flak warning because 6.1km concealment haha😂

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At first glance it seems a huge nerf to CV scouting ability therefore their strategic utility. It's already pretty hard for CV to find a DD with his AA turned off. It will be next to impossible if the detection range is halved. Likewise, larger surface ships will not be instantly lit up on a scouting simple sweep.

What that does is (deliberate choice by WG I'm sure) bring CVs in line with other ship classes with respect to vision. Concealment and detection related gameplay should be more consistently between CV and no CV games after the change. Instead of CV finding the enemy DD and the friendly DD acting on that info, the DD will find enemy DD and the CV might help out on the attack, similar to how it is now with cruisers. That's a big change.

I was thinking just the other day that sector AA reinforcement need to be removed from the game. Trying to remember whether to press "O" or "[" (keyboard dependent) is just a pointless complication. Better to have "P" turn AA on or off,  and "O" start a temporary boost that works in all directions so you don't have to worry about where CV will send his planes exactly so long as they are towards you.

Sadly the proposed changes appear to keep sector reinforcement, but add yet more complexity over the "shaping" of the AA strength over time, making the intro-exit of turning AA on or off gradual in the same  way that reinforcement works now. It means you wont be able to ambush planes quite as badly, and you wont be able to go dark quite as easily, but it doesn't seem to be to something that will have a huge impact either way, nothing like the scale of the reduced air detection proposals.

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

I was thinking just the other day that sector AA reinforcement need to be removed from the game. Trying to remember whether to press "O" or "[" (keyboard dependent) is just a pointless complication. Better to have "P" turn AA on or off,  and "O" start a temporary boost that works in all directions so you don't have to worry about where CV will send his planes exactly so long as they are towards you.

Sadly the proposed changes appear to keep sector reinforcement, but add yet more complexity over the "shaping" of the AA strength over time, making the intro-exit of turning AA on or off gradual in the same  way that reinforcement works now. It means you wont be able to ambush planes quite as badly, and you wont be able to go dark quite as easily, but it doesn't seem to be to something that will have a huge impact either way, nothing like the scale of the reduced air detection proposals.

Yeah, I don't mind sector reinforcement that much but find it too easy if anything.

Using AA has always been fairly run of the mill easy IMO, only minor choice/management was when a full set of strike wings were on approach back in RTS days. Even then, wasn't much of an 'AA system'.

So your solution is viable but I think the CV-haters will start crying about 'eliminated counterplay' 'now you just manage concealment' or some such nonsense.

I like these changes, I think they're in the right direction but I don't think they need to be as drastic across all ships. The only ships that were being a tad unfairly punished were DDs and flankers.

As usual, WG balancing with a sledgehammer. Now you will only be able to strike those who are revealing themselves... But we'll see how it goes.

9 hours ago, Mechfori said:

kind of mixed ... interesting ... many so call strong AA ship are no longer really strong on AA and this is going to reduce their efficiency further, but for many others this looks to be favorable . CV lose something, and gain something with the plane vs surface ship encounter and engagement

Wait what?

What do they lose? The only ships who have greater AA range than detection are DDs (unless there's still an outlier or two I've missed).

It's basically giving every ship the ability to be invisible but then turn their AA on, just with a gradual activation process.

This is a straight up buff for most ships.

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Ok... So... All ships are getting air detectability dropped considerably. To the point that some ships such as BBs and cruisers, may even have AA range greater than their detectability? Which may actually make hiding from aircraft viable.

To counter this, ships with AA on will now fire “warning shots” up to 30% their AA range away, to warn CVs they are entering AA zone. And also the gradual increase and decrease of AA from off to on and back.

So, in exchange for greater concealment, ships now give warning to CV, and have slower activation of AA guns. Meaning from CV perspective, it will be harder to spot ships and reconnaissance, but may have less AA to deal with.

There may be teamplay issues where your team mates have no idea how to use AA, and will either have it on all the time. Or not turn it on in time, so planes will attack more easily... But I have little faith in teamplay already.

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13 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Ok... So... All ships are getting air detectability dropped considerably. To the point that some ships such as BBs and cruisers, may even have AA range greater than their detectability? Which may actually make hiding from aircraft viable.

To counter this, ships with AA on will now fire “warning shots” up to 30% their AA range away, to warn CVs they are entering AA zone. And also the gradual increase and decrease of AA from off to on and back.

So, in exchange for greater concealment, ships now give warning to CV, and have slower activation of AA guns. Meaning from CV perspective, it will be harder to spot ships and reconnaissance, but may have less AA to deal with.

There may be teamplay issues where your team mates have no idea how to use AA, and will either have it on all the time. Or not turn it on in time, so planes will attack more easily... But I have little faith in teamplay already.

No way... Everyone except potatoes turns AA off, then activates at around 5km out, by the time CV reacts, they're in short range and can't attack...

At least that's my quick-glance analysis.

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11 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

No way... Everyone except potatoes turns AA off, then activates at around 5km out, by the time CV reacts, they're in short range and can't attack...

There are lots of ships where the AA range is less than the air detection range, so there is no penalty to leaving it on. Regardless, it wouldn't surprise me to know that a high percentile of players don't know how to manage AA effectively.

Some of this is WGs fault - the mechanics and stats of AA now are so complex it is nearly impossible to figure out.

For example: who can tell me what the actual benefit is in equipping the AA module that decreases the preparation time of sector AA by 20%? How much more plane damage I am likely to do, or how much less strike damage I am likely to take? I admit that personally I have no idea.

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Bring back RTS and it's AA. Simple to use. If you want to murder a set of planes, ctrl-click on them and turn on DFAA. BRRRRRRTTTTT! Move to next set. BBBBBRRTT!!! NEXT! BRRRTTT. All ded. Dummy CV half deplaned. On CV side: *watches as his 5 squads evaporate*

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11 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

Note: What is the point of the third one? Scare the planes?

More likely that it over-inflates your air detection until your AA can actually turn off. This is likely to be a detriment for surface ships, like how gun blooms lets people spot you, as compensation for everyone having greatly reduced air detection when AA is off.

Edited by Verytis
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It seems like an interesting direction to me. Basically it gives you a choice - do you want to not be spotted, or do you want effective AA?

You can choose to sail around with your AA off, and enjoy the benefit of 1km air spotting range in your DD, 3km in your cruisers, and 5-6km in your BB's. Alternatively, you could leave your AA on to support your team mates or because you play a ship that doesn't care much about being spotted, and be just as effective as you are now.  If you want to have low air concealment, but then pop your AA on, then there is a penalty in that it takes a while to wind up your AA to full strength. If you want to go dark and turn your AA off, there is a penalty for changing states to concealed as well. This seems very reasonable.

Overall, that's a real choice, and it's a buff to pretty much everyone except CV's (who are going to have their spotting ability severely curtailed), and AA DD's (who won't be able to ambush enemy squadrons anywhere near as effectively).  It may be too much of a nerf to CV's, who are statistically balanced now, and have a win influence on the bottom of the list roughly equal with BB's.  I guess we'll see.  There will likely be ways for good CV players to game the system of course.

I wouldn't be surprised if this one goes ahead. It seems to solve a lot of the problems people are complaining about - early game spotting in CB's, being unable to flank because of spotting, and DD AA ambushes.  It also solves the CV issue of running into strong AA cruisers who have detection range equal to AA range, and losing a plane or two leaving the aura, since they will now get warning before entering effective AA range.

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49 minutes ago, Rina_Pon said:

There are lots of ships where the AA range is less than the air detection range, so there is no penalty to leaving it on. Regardless, it wouldn't surprise me to know that a high percentile of players don't know how to manage AA effectively.

Some of this is WGs fault - the mechanics and stats of AA now are so complex it is nearly impossible to figure out.

For example: who can tell me what the actual benefit is in equipping the AA module that decreases the preparation time of sector AA by 20%? How much more plane damage I am likely to do, or how much less strike damage I am likely to take? I admit that personally I have no idea.

Oh I wasn't saying that... I was saying that DDs are the only ones who have AA ranges greater than their air detection...

But yes, agreed - most players won't really know or remember to turn off AA, how would they know?

100% agree, most of the AA 'buff' modules/skills are completely 'meh'.

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4 minutes ago, S4pp3R said:

Oh I wasn't saying that... I was saying that DDs are the only ones who have AA ranges greater than their air detection...

But yes, agreed - most players won't really know or remember to turn off AA, how would they know?

100% agree, most of the AA 'buff' modules/skills are completely 'meh'.

Of course, if they update the skills to reflect the new changes, they could actually make AA skills an actual CHOICE.

For instance, any skill which increases the rate at which AA charges to 100%, or even a skill which removes the charge time. If that was a 4 point skill, players would actually consider it over some of the others. Of course, we live in a meta where Concealment Expert is STILL so important. But given how much CVs screw up concealment gameplay, giving up concealment skills for GOOD AA skills could be viable for some ships. Like a skill that significantly slowed down aiming time of planes. A lot of open water gunboat DDs would probably consider that over concealment. Or get both and make other sacrifices...

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1 hour ago, Rina_Pon said:

For example: who can tell me what the actual benefit is in equipping the AA module that decreases the preparation time of sector AA by 20%? How much more plane damage I am likely to do, or how much less strike damage I am likely to take? I admit that personally I have no idea.

That upgrade is rather useless. It is only useful if the CV is conducting subsequent strikes on the same target. 

Even then it only really benefits DDs because it makes their priority sector come off cooldown in time for the CV's 2nd run. But for other ships it still won't be in time for the 2nd strike so it must be kept for the 3rd. And CVs don't often conduct 3rd strikes against the same target unless they have large squadrons and enemy AA is poor. 

The older upgrade with the 2 extra flak puffs was far more useful imo.

Edited by Thyaliad

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