DD happiness

[DUX_2020]

Well this is what i'm talking about, just going to cap point A, CV planes come in, spot me, turns around, BBs Cruisers pummel me and aircraft finishes me off if the ships haven't already. check out his nickname!!! not edited!!!

seriously if wargaming won't fix this, what should DD players do? Hide or just get hit within the first 3mins and then wait another 17mins to play their DD again? no fun.

[Manacetamol]

well, thats fast

[EULA_violator]

1, you arnt allowed to name and shame here

2, you have smokes for a reason?

3, if you know there are CVs and radars wating at a cap cant you bait or wait them out instead of suicideing in?

 

[Puggsley]

How is that name and shame?

[DUX_2020]

well i wasn't naming and shaming, i just said check out his name bcoz i thought it was funny just illustrating my point about the frustration of playing DD yukukaze - it seems that others know what's it like for Yukikaze players.

i do have smoke, i didn't use it this time. i do use it unless i'm radar'd/ultrasounded.

obviously i didn't know the CV planes were coming to me, they did a 90degree turn and headed towards me just before i entered the cap zone.

[Adorable_KeQing]

Issue with players that are playing DDs now are,
>I am a DeeDee, I must cap in the first minutes of the game (Ignoring the fact that there is a CV that could spot them out, radars are all online).
>If I pop smoke, they can't see me. Time to sit still broadside in cap only to have torps come out of no where and get yeeted out of smoke
>If I pop smoke, I should be safe, slowly caps it out and BOOM, got radared. (Quite common for DD players to just instantly smoke as they enter the cap when there is no threats around denying spotting for themselves. If only they dont instantly smoke, they might know some radar cruiser is coming up).
>DD players lack of knowledge in general when it comes to radar and duration, lack of knowledge about how to use/toggle AA with P, map awareness is abysmal, 

DDs right now are in a place where it can be quite challenging to be played and requires a functioning brain. If you are going to leave your team and YOLO into cap and get killed, its on you.
Looking into your performance you had recently, you have 24 games in your AL Yukikaze and an avg SR% of 5% which does mean you are repeatedly throwing your ships. Not to mention you had 245 games in it with a SR% of 17% which is surprisingly low. I do somewhat believe you locked yourself out into COOP battles too much and when coming back to Random Battles, you are just overwhelmed.

I do have smoke, i didn't use it this time. i do use it unless i'm radar'd/ultrasounded.
Smoke is there for a reason, USE IT, why bother play it risky? You play it risky, you got what you wanted

And clearly that player is a big fan of Yukikaze and it is to be expected he wants to kill you. If you are already spotted while entering cap and him knowing you are not going to take evasive actions, obviously he will come back towards you. You also distanced yourself from your team to begin with which means free rain for the enemy CV and his team to snipe you down.

[notyourfather]

3 minutes ago, DUX_2020 said:

well i wasn't naming and shaming, i just said check out his name bcoz i thought it was funny just illustrating my point about the frustration of playing DD yukukaze - it seems that others know what's it like for Yukikaze players.

i do have smoke, i didn't use it this time. i do use it unless i'm radar'd/ultrasounded.

obviously i didn't know the CV planes were coming to me, they did a 90degree turn and headed towards me just before i entered the cap zone.

Then learn every radar and hydro ranges. Common radar ranges are 10,12.

[DUX_2020]

2 minutes ago, HoChunHao said:

Looking into your performance you had recently, you have 24 games in your AL Yukikaze and an avg SR% of 5% which does mean you are repeatedly throwing your ships. Not to mention you had 245 games in it with a SR% of 17% which is surprisingly low. I do somewhat believe you locked yourself out into COOP battles too much and when coming back to Random Battles, you are just overwhelmed.

it is low and i can tell that if i get past the first few mins, i go spot for my BBs, as i catch up to the enemy my team pummels them, i shoot off my torps, by this time they know someone has spotted them bcoz

1. my BBs are shooting at them

2. they have captain skill showing someone is near

3. someone on their side has radar/ultra/etc and spot me

4. CV spots me

5. difficult to catch them in yukikaze and to torpedo from 6km spotting range to 8km torp range - if they know i'm they just keep sailing away, there's no way for me to catch up, turn, fire torps and get a hit

 

[DUX_2020]

11 minutes ago, notyourfather said:

Then learn every radar and hydro ranges. Common radar ranges are 10,12.

thats exactly right, i have to torp at <8km and >6km. thats heaps of miles difference when' i'm expecing to line up at 7km - and captain skill alerts them something is coming, hence radar hydro goes up. just saying..

[Max_Battle]

I'm not sure there is any ship in the game that can "just do" the one thing it looks like it is/should be good at.

Adapt. Survive. Overcome.

[JulesVn]

The easy answer is just to play Halland. With so many Russian cruisers in the game, smoke is pretty much useless anywhere standard IJN torp ranges or less from the enemy. I just got the Shimakaze and my win rate in it is about the same as your Yukikaze, although I have had some good games amongst those defeats. When an average of 3 ships per game can stealth radar you, the old DD meta is dead. 

(My personal request for WG to buff the IJN torp boats is bow and stern thrusters. That way when I am lined up bow or stern in I can crab sideways and dodge that torp invariably homing in right on line with me. That would reduce half of my Shima deaths that weren't over-radaring)

[EULA_violator]

1 hour ago, Max_Battle said:

I'm not sure there is any ship in the game that can "just do" the one thing it looks like it is/should be good at.

Adapt. Survive. Overcome.

case in point

petro is a shit open water gunbote and the HE sucks, so you should be playing around islands

still managed to get get witherer and 250k on ocean of all caps

 

 

marceau is a suboptimal ship for capping compared to DDs with smoke and good concealment

still got 3/3 epiccancer caps and won for the team with almost 0 bloodshed

 

 

 

dont stick to one playstyle because the ship is "good" in it, no matter how good a ship is it means jack shit if the other team has 6 people gunning for your ass

[GoodMorning_MFs]

51 minutes ago, JulesVn said:

(My personal request for WG to buff the IJN torp boats is bow and stern thrusters. That way when I am lined up bow or stern in I can crab sideways and dodge that torp invariably homing in right on line with me. That would reduce half of my Shima deaths that weren't over-radaring)

Excuse me?

Btw OP, this is what happen if you are using a DD stuck with F3 torps, it is deadly but requires extreme map knowledge and patience to make it work. Now you look like someone who bought a shotgun but complains about the fact it can't headshot someone 200m away. (Maybe this is a terrible metaphor)

[WellyCoaster]

19 hours ago, DUX_2020 said:

thats exactly right, i have to torp at <8km and >6km. thats heaps of miles difference when' i'm expecing to line up at 7km - and captain skill alerts them something is coming, hence radar hydro goes up. just saying..

Dropping torps at 6 to 8km at broadside targets is the best range for dev striking and crippling pushes, its the range I try to drop my torps unless dropping on bow on targets which will give your torps an extra 2km range as they push in. 

I like Yukikaze but it requires extra patience and waiting for opportunities, not forcing them. I spec mine for guns EM and BFT and not RPF to stay stealthier.

You dont need to cap straight away, players wait to see if the enemy is capping then ambush so in my IJN torp boats I patrol around the cap spotting and finding out whats there first. Reverse into the edge of caps to bait radar and bolt behind  near sheltering Islands to avoid incoming fire.

Learn the radar ranges and look where Islands are to estimate where they are waiting, its fun sitting about 11km from the corner of an Island and seeing radar try to light you as you zoom back out beyond 12km wasting their radar.

[Puggsley]

Plus learn times radar will be in operation.

If you are going to bait radar then try to make sure you are set up to be facing away from where they are (or you think they are) so you can throttle dodge to make it extremely hard for them to tell your speed.

Won't work quite so well at close ranges, but at longer range can make you almost impossible to hit if radared.

 

 

 

[PeterMoe1963]

Charging blindly into the cap got DD's killed before radar and CV update.

Now blindly charging into a cap just gets you killed much more quickly.

Fair enough, playing DD can be very frustrating. But a DD has a few tools and tactics at their disposal.

Compare that to playing a T3 ship with *no* AA in a T4 battle with 4 CV's. I wonder how many new players have stopped playing because of the frustration.

 

[S4pp3R]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:13 PM, DUX_2020 said:

seriously if wargaming won't fix this, what should DD players do? Hide or just get hit within the first 3mins and then wait another 17mins to play their DD again? no fun.

Ok the others have told you what to do to improve on this specific instance so I won't insult your intelligence and repeat that. What I will mention is one thing that will work in all ships and games...

Attitude.

By simply assuming the problem lies elsewhere and leaving it at that, you have hamstrung yourself.

Regardless of the other external factors and their contribution; the biggest single factor that is in every battle you play and that you have control over is you.

By examining what -you- could have done better, you can avoid making the same mistake again and improve.

It's not always easy and it takes a lot of time.

I'll give you an example, I have not been playing 'sluggish' CAs well lately and I just can't break my rut. Henri is the prime example. Her nerfs aside, objectively looking at my gameplay I'm pushing too far forward and playing in a position a sub 12km concealment CA can play; Henri has around 14km concealment, I need to sit back more and work my 19.2km range.

In the games I'm doing this, I'm not getting much damage; this is because I play weaker flanks more than stronger ones so there's usually a lack of spotting (team defaults to DD flank most of the time).

So I can either adjust my play style and play strong flanks (boring), play a DD or CV (no thanks, I don't enjoy either), play a different CA or BB or a different tier...

I've finished my Henri IV legendary and she's no longer anything like the ship I fell in love with so I'm going to go play other tiers, T10 gameplay is boring atm anyways.

Bottom Line: Attitude helps you improve and if you want to enjoy the game more and improve your results; find what you can do better and work to do it...

[MissMeMiss]

I've discussed before about this on older thread.

When you playing BB, from T4~T10 ... nothing is change, playing style are the same. The only difference are how you position yourself. In lower tier it's 10~18km distance between you & enemy, in T10 it's extended into 15~25km.
Same as playing CA, always extra care your broadside to avoid getting citadel or critical hit, find cover behind island, spam HE, then AP when you can get broadside target. In lower tier battle distance between 10km~15km, in higher tier from 15km~20km.

Now DD playing in lower & higher tier are totally difference. You're trained to capture & spam torpedoes, pop some smoke if needed. But then, arrive at Tier 7 DD, all changes significantly. T8 CV have better damage & experienced at bombing, also skilled at hunting DD. T8 Cruiser had Radar to negate smoke. Sovyet Cruiser had long range radar that surpass their concealment, mean if a DD spot Sovyet Cruiser at 9km, they must quickly escape the 12 km radar. Most players in T8 also already good at shooting. If a DD spotted in open area, it is a very bad situation for them. 1 or 2 shell from either CA & BB would damage important module like steer or engine, things that you need to escape the situation.

In +T8, DD are specialized. Some good for Spamming Torpedoes & high concealment yet slow. Some need extra effort like Sovyet Gunboat DD who have super short range torps with medium concealment & must play smart when shooting main battery, but possess remarkable engine to do hit & run tactics. Some in between those, with better armor or special equipment. DD play are more complex when compare to Cruiser & Battleship. Each DD, from each branch or nation, have different combat manual. You can't just play them with the same style, or bring lower tier DD's combat style into the higher tier DD.

Also the problem often come with your teammate. I've experience hundreds of times, where enemy team ready to help their DD capturing by risking to sail in open sea, while my team busy finding covers behind Island. When I finally 1vs1 with their DD, shells came from anywhere, while enemy DD just sailing comfortably & focus just avoiding my shells. When I'm dead & look behind, my team have no possibility to assist me, because they are hiding behind Island that block their shooting trajectory.

This is why experience players always saying  "Map Awareness, Map Awareness, Map Awareness", for every time newbie complain about something. When you're about to take action, you have to consider your surrounding. The damage calculation that you will get, the damage calculation that you will create, the environment, sailing route, the enemy movement & your teammate combat readiness ... and last ... RNGeesus.

Like for example "I'm Kagero (T8 IJN DD - Torp specialize), I will meet Kiev (T8 Sovyet DD - Gunboat specialize) and beat the sh*t out of him in 1vs 1!" ... no you goddamn can't. You'll be sinking while Kiev only hurt like 1/5 of her HP. Damage calculation, what will impact you & your enemy.

[S4pp3R]

8 hours ago, MissMeMiss said:

Now DD playing in lower & higher tier are totally difference. You're trained to capture & spam torpedoes, pop some smoke if needed. But then, arrive at Tier 7 DD, all changes significantly. T8 CV have better damage & experienced at bombing, also skilled at hunting DD. T8 Cruiser had Radar to negate smoke. Sovyet Cruiser had long range radar that surpass their concealment, mean if a DD spot Sovyet Cruiser at 9km, they must quickly escape the 12 km radar. Most players in T8 also already good at shooting. If a DD spotted in open area, it is a very bad situation for them. 1 or 2 shell from either CA & BB would damage important module like steer or engine, things that you need to escape the situation.

I mostly agree with this...

The difference isn't CVs, it's radar.

And the blame lies soley with WG. Their 'tutorials' don't exist or at best are crud. The 'reward' for playing correctly or 'punishment' for playing badly isn't consistent, mostly because the only things that are rewarded XP-wise are completely arbitrary (being damage and caps). Things that are actually the DDs role like screening and spotting aren't rewarded anywhere near enough so people never learn how to play properly. In effect, an online PvP game should reward the things that it wants players to do, World of Warships doesn't do that.

It's one of my older vids but still applies and goes through the issues of the XP system and what I'd do to fix it... (caution - adult language)