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WorIdofWarsheeps

ST, DETECTABILITY WITH AA FIRING

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https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/41

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

 

Soon there will be a closed test for changes to the detectability settings:

  • A ship’s detectability range by air is now equal to the maximum firing range of her AA guns for a period of 20 seconds after her AA guns cease firing;
  • The detectability range by air of all destroyers is halved. 

This change affects detectability only in situations where enemy aircraft are within the range of a ship's AA defenses. It won't affect ships that have a detectability by air higher or equal to their AA range. This system will allow a significant increase in stealthiness for destroyers that turn their AA off: the ship will only be visible from a 1.5 - 2 km range and planes will have little time to set up a good attack run. At the same time, opportunities for attacks against ships that keep their AA on will remain the same.

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This will end up badly.

Right now it is next to impossible to strike a DD on the first run if the DD has air detection range less than 2.8 km. At the same time, this change will severely punish those who use their AA properly.

This change will piss on both parties.

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Actually, this is reasonable. If you are a dd that doesn't adapt, well... tough luck. It will make CVs rethink striking dds in favour of damage. Not perfect but something sane for once instead of nerfing CV/increasing AA.

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So CE skill will already useless even close AA gun eh?

if plane saw you there no way to run and die with shame

Edited by THAI_THIEF

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But this will make attacking DDS almost impossible. Half det cation means ~1.5km. not enough time to initiate attack.

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As I said in the other thread, this is a :etc_swear:ing stupid idea.

This will just make any DD AA that isn't Halland to be even more useless.

Buff DD air concealment if that is what is needed, but don't nerf DD AA mechanics.

If Halland AA is too powerful then nerf the damn Halland already. Don't punish other DD AA for it.

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WG's hellbent intent to "fix" the problem. But does not want to change the things that causes the problem. Remembes NTC.

 

Were gonna need more alcohol before all this is over.

1796331727_malinaalcohol.thumb.png.1c598dc69ed636e119e8a4d0e064f683.png

Edited by S0und_Theif

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this change is actually quite like CV rework, it PISS both CV player and surface pheasant....

this change from my perspective have this impact :

 

1. it become harder for CV player to scout for DD

basically its good change for DD, they become harder to kill at early game due to half concealment. DD with crap AA will benefit a lot, its also keep return the stealth gameplay of DD. CV atleast need to spot first then initiate attack. 

 

THIS IS ACTUALLY BIG BUFF FOR DD without smoke since Kleber and Khabarovsk is spotted from the moon.

and my Orkan with crap AA say hi

 

2. hammer nerf for AA DD

Halland is no longer SilverAsh and Smalland is no longer Lappland, and USN DD AA or VMF AA DD is getting affected. they have choice to keep stealthy or become AA platform.... shooting plane now give them 20 sec spotted.... Halland without smoke is crying in the corner....

 

3. nerf hammer for CA and BB with long AA

yep, very obvious after shooting a single plane in early CA will get easily targeted by enemy BB from 20km away. CL with fragile 20km citadel need to rethink twice before shoot AA

 

 

4. INCREASE SKILL GAP BY A LOT

- experienced CV player with king crimson ability or low EQ high 3d view will have no problem imagining where is DD to attack

- noob CV player will take a hard time thinking WHERE THE HELL IS DD

- bot / noob DD player will get smacked hard.....

- smart DD player will take advantage of this.....

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

in order to mitigate the problem.... I SUGGEST

 

1. FOR DD, 

A ship’s detectability range by air is now equal to the maximum firing range of her AA guns for a period of 10 seconds after her AA guns cease firing;

 

for DD it will be 10 sec only.....

 

2. INTRODUCE NEW SQUADRON FOR CV!

SCOUT PLANE

- cannt attack

- come in low number (T4 have 1 plane, T6 have 2 plane, T8&T10 have 3 plane)

- easier to detect DD (air concealment detected by scout plane is twice for DD)

- ship spotted by scout squadron is easier to hit (-10% dispersion to target)

- Continous AA damage is HALVED againts Scout plane, the Flak AA remain the same

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okay.... I'll sent layoff notice to my AA crew. 

btw, is it possible to dismantle my shimakaze AA and sold off as scrap for some credit?

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So AA gun blooms your detection like regular salvo, but to the AA range?

 

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12 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

So AA gun blooms your detection like regular salvo, but to the AA range?

 

Yes, so you can't turn off your AA to drop off air detection quickly. Best not to turn it on at all.

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again try to balance the wrong spec for the right reasons , even if its right, its still wrong somehow , and even if its wrong its right somehow ...

am not sure if this change will help improving the current miserable AA interaction or further worsen it , but the change do not take note to change the core issue of AA, basically AA that do not do AA at all even if , in the end , downing the whole squad - the squad can still put in all the attack waves despite attacking a cluster of AA strong surface ships .. first wave might be able to be dodged, but surface ship lose speed and thus lose maneuverability quick once start turning , even with DD, its these continuous multiple attack waves ( and at the same time being focus fired by enemy surface fleet ) that break the interaction ... and of course the insane Rocket damage to DD.

WG still do not want to made AA do AA, so in the end I do not see the change bring in actual balance between the surface ships to CV interaction ... care to try that with double CV game with T4 CV on T3 surface ships ( even T4 or plenty of T5 ) ...

Edited by Mechfori

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Problem: CV v DD interaction is biased towards CV. Solution, improve DD stealth against aircraft.

Non-issue: CV vs non-DD interaction. WHY then do you need to go fix something that is not an issue?

Like I have been consistently saying: CV primary target should be BBs. End-of-discussion.

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15 hours ago, Work_ln_Progress said:

A ship’s detectability range by air is now equal to the maximum firing range of her AA guns for a period of 20 seconds after her AA guns cease firing;

Wait... Does this apply to all ships? It does not mention specific ships.

So... Sovetsky Soyuz has a base air detection Range of 13.36km , and a AA range of 5.2.

Does this mean that as soon as enemy planes fly out of range of the AA guns, S.S air detectability will shrink to 5.2 for the next 20 seconds?

Because that is great.

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4 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

lol_kamikaze.jpg

Hmmm, do I want to be invisible, or point a stick in the air and yell “bang”, attracting aircraft to my location. Tough choice.

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2 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Hmmm, do I want to be invisible, or point a stick in the air and yell “bang”, attracting aircraft to my location. Tough choice.

IKR.

And.

That 2.2km is current air detection.

Will be 1.1 Air Detect and 5.4 surface detect.

She already spews torpedoes like some Japanese monster...

Imagine practical invulnerability to CV after change?

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10 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Non-issue: CV vs non-DD interaction. WHY then do you need to go fix something that is not an issue?

 

38 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Wait... Does this apply to all ships? It does not mention specific ships.

The halved air concealment change only applies to DD's, however the 20s AA bloom change applies to all ships.

This is irrelevant however, because the only ships that have AA range less than their air detection are DD's, meaning in actuality both changes only affect DD's.  There will be no apparent change for other ship types, because they already have their permanent air detection being equal to or higher than their AA gun range.

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I would like to thank all those that reminded me that current AA detection mechanics is bloom at AA range as long as a plane is within range, which means you restealth immediately once the planes fly out of range or die. 

So:

Non-issue: CV vs non-DD interaction. WHY then do you need to go fix something that is not an issue?

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just keep AA off then, if anything this is an overall improvement on most DDs, unless you're Halland.

Also stops bad people from trying to "provide AA support"

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10 minutes ago, Verytis said:

just keep AA off then, if anything this is an overall improvement on most DDs, unless you're Halland.

Nope.

I play lots of US DDs.

I make a habbit of turning AA off until planes are too close to attack me, blast them with a Priority Sector and then turn off after they fly right by me.

It will affect my US and probably Ikea lolibotes quite a lot.

11 minutes ago, Verytis said:

Also stops bad people from trying to "provide AA support"

? What does THAT mean?

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1 hour ago, Max_Battle said:

? What does THAT mean?

You probably know what you're doing, but I see DDs that leave their AA on and get themselves killed every now and then.

Sorry, no offense intended. I just don't feel most DDs provide enough AA. As someone who learned IJN torpboats, I feel that its better to remain hidden and fire torpedoes if you have good ones. The longer you're unseen, the most distance you could have potentially moved and your enemy has a far weaker idea of where you are.

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2 hours ago, Verytis said:

just keep AA off then, if anything this is an overall improvement on most DDs, unless you're Halland.

Also stops bad people from trying to "provide AA support"

Ehhh no.

There are DDs with pretty decent AA that can help with AA protection - Grozovoi, Gearing, Z-52 and Kidd among others. Not every DD has to have Halland level AA to be useful, but this change pretty much negates their usefulness.

Those ships can also swat any fighters that the CV tries to drop on them out of the sky. With this AA change the DD can't do that without blooming their air detection range for 20s. A CV can fly rocket planes over, drop a fighter over a DD to spot them, then swing back around to line up their rocket attacks. Currently those ships will easily shoot the spotting fighters down and go dark before the CV has a chance to turn around and line up the rocket strike.

It is definitely not an overall improvement and it wouldn't even help the bad players because they are ones who don't even turn off their AA in the first place. If anything it punishes them.

Like I said earlier, buff DD air concealment if needed, but don't touch the current DD AA mechanics.

Edited by Thyaliad
  • Cool 2

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19 minutes ago, Verytis said:

You probably know what you're doing, but I see DDs that leave their AA on and get themselves killed every now and then.

Sorry, no offense intended. I just don't feel most DDs provide enough AA. As someone who learned IJN torpboats, I feel that its better to remain hidden and fire torpedoes if you have good ones. The longer you're unseen, the most distance you could have potentially moved and your enemy has a far weaker idea of where you are.

Oh yeah for sure.

And yeah, most DDs have weak AA and DDs who have good concealment and use torps as their main damage source are going to benefit from this change.

It's going to hurt my "gun and hide" tactics though with my US DDs.

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1 minute ago, Thyaliad said:

Ehhh no.

There are DDs with pretty decent AA that can help AA protection - Grozovoi, Gearing, Z-52 and Kidd among others. Not every DD has to have Halland level AA to be useful, but this change pretty much negates their usefulness.

Those ships can also swat any fighters that the CV tries to drop on then out of the sky. With this AA change the DD can't do that without blooming their air detection range for 20s. A CV can fly rocket planes over, drop a fighter over a DD to spot them, then swing back around to line up their rocket attacks. Currently those ships will easily shoot the spotting fighters down and go dark before the CV has a chance to turn around and line up the rocket strike.

It is definitely not an overall improvement and it wouldn't even help the bad players because they are ones who don't even turn off their AA in the first place. If anything it punishes them.

Like I said earlier, buff DD air concealment if needed, but don't touch the current DD AA mechanics.

Yes.

I have had many battles in DDs where the CV has continually targetted me. I haven't of course evaded all his attacks or shot down all his planes but a combination of strong AA and going dark quickly has kept me in the fight for a long time - and even if the CV eventually gets me I have tied him up for a long time focusing me.

Or better still, I remember one game in my Nicholas a while back where 2 T6 CVs targeted me almost the whole game. I had BFT and DFAA. Between that, smoke and going dark fast, I tied them both up almost the whole game and had a win.

There ARE things a DD with strong AA can do at the moment to be competitive - this change straight robs me of one of the tools I need.

(Ignore my Kamikaze meme above 😛 But I'm also looking forward to being a high concealment terror in IJN DDs)

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