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S0und_Theif

Results of Clan Season IX: Warrior's Path (data for the spreadsheet god with possible future changes)

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The recent season was quite significant both for players and the development team: for the first time, aircraft carriers participated on equal terms with other classes. We thank everyone for your participation and feedback. Despite some challenges, the outcome of this season was very important for determining changes to upcoming seasons. 

 

Let’s break it down:

Battles in Squall, Gale, and Storm leagues included the best elements of past seasons, but with the addition of aircraft carriers. The participating clans tried various tactics and lineups using all available ship classes, which had a good influence on the total number of participants, as well as their overall impressions. While the current global situation led to an overall higher player count, the season turned out to be more popular not just in general numbers but also in relative numbers than previous seasons. The dynamic of these battles came close to what we ultimately want to achieve: clans are not limited in their choice of setups, can choose any ships, and apply various tactics; and the basis for victory is a carefully planned strategy and team skills. 

Despite the results of battles in the Squall, Gale, and Storm leagues, no less important are the results in the Typhoon and Hurricane leagues—and they cannot boast the same results. A number of factors, including the impact of the quick and efficient spotting potential from aircraft carriers, the prevalence of very specific ship lineups, and the fact that in many battles just one wrong move could spell defeat—all in all—lead to frustration. The current state of battles with Tier X ships in high leagues is therefore not satisfactory to us and requires changes for the better.

There are still a lot of things to improve in the future, but first, we tried to focus on the big issues:

  • Individual balance of ships — among which Hakuryū and Venezia stand out the most because of their excessive effectiveness in all types of battles. Due to this, clans tended to use the same setups and apply similar tactics, and the outcome of a battle could often be decided by one successful bomb drop. You can find more details here: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/38;
  • Battleships in high-Tier leagues. Due to its excessive performance, Hakuryū almost displaced battleships from Typhoon and Hurricane leagues, even though Midway/Audacious had a less significant impact. On the other hand, in the Squall, Gale, and Storm leagues, battleships were competitive in battles against an aircraft carrier. In addition to solving this issue, as an alternative for the next seasons, we want to try to increase the number of battleships in a team to 2. Before a final decision is made, testing will, however, be necessary. According to the results of the test, we can reject or implement this idea;
  • Aircraft carriers “Spotting”. One of the most common points you mentioned—aircraft carriers' ability to “spot”. In clan battles, this feature is getting more important than in other battle types: taking into account the coordinated actions of the team and a specially selected ship lineup, a team can quickly work out the opposing team's strategy. We are going to conduct testing with weather events, which should limit aircraft carrier influence in Clan Battles. We are also looking for an opportunity to lower this influence through other means. However, making separate mechanics for one type of battle leads to big differences in gameplay experience and the transformation of Clan Battles into a “game inside the game”, which would complicate the adjustment for new players. We will try to extend any new mechanics to all types of battles—if possible, adapting them to the specifics of each of them.
  • Destroyers and aircraft carriers. In Random and Ranked battles, carriers show a performance which can be compared to the performance of other classes, but there is one exception: attack aircraft often complicate the game process for destroyers. In Clan Battles, this point is getting more notable due to well-coordinated teamwork. Already, we have been working on solutions to this problem for some time. In the near future, we will conduct a test session with the following parameters: Destroyers' detectability range by air will be decreased by half, but when AA defense is turned on, their detectability range by air will be equal to their AA firing range for 20 seconds after the AA guns cease firing. Thus, it will require more skill from a carrier's side in order to interact with destroyers, and destroyers will be given more opportunities to evade the attack with careful positioning. This change can solve the problem on paper, but testing may show various results and implementation into the game can take some time.

  • Destroyers in high Tier leagues. The factors listed above led to clans discovering that it was more efficient to take lineups made up exclusively of cruisers, backed up with only one carrier or battleship. This led to the almost complete absence of destroyers in high tier leagues. We will consider different solutions to this point, but to a greater degree, the return of Destroyers depends on the solution of the above problems as well.

We'd also like to take this chance to answer some of your most popular inquiries: 

  • One of the most popular suggestions which we received recently is introducing limits on classes or ship types to reduce the number of identical ships in lineups, or using limits on classes to return destroyers to Clan Battles. We considered this option but see it as an artificial limitation that will not solve the problem: if a clan does not plan to use a specific ship, and does not consider it effective for a strong team setup, then the problem should be solved in such a way that all ships are seen as an equivalent alternative to other options. Despite our current position on this issue, we do not discard the possibility of returning to these restrictions.

  • Many players note the weakness of AA defense and/or the consumable “Defensive AA Fire”. We recognize that some improvements in the AA mechanics are possible. It's too early to talk about the details, but we will be happy to share them with you as they are developed.

  • We often faced a proposal to reduce the reconnaissance potential of the “Fighter” consumable by reducing its visibility range. We thought about this option, but for now, we want to maintain the same general principles for the “spotting” mechanics for all aircraft and first try to reduce their efficiency by using the changes described above.

To summarize, we can say that the season had its pros and cons which we should consider and work on. In the future, we aim to conduct clan battles where all four main classes in our game will be presented, but before we return to Tier X, it will take some time to work both on the points described above and on general improvement for Clan Battles. We thank all the clans who took part in battles and those who shared their impressions in the past season.

To make time for us to develop improvements—and for clan battlers to test themselves in a new environment—season X will be conducted in a 7x7 format on Tier VI ships without any weather events. The restrictions remain the same: one carrier or battleship for one team. Season date: July 15th – August 31st. Changing the format will allow trying out new tactics because, at this Tier, ship balance and command ship structure are absolutely different from Tier X:

  • At this Tier, aircraft carriers play more a supporting role, while battleships allow teams to confidently push a flank.
  • With the lack of radar and no heal for cruisers, Tier VI Clan Battles might become a refreshing experience, especially for destroyers.

The new season will allow us to collect information and consider other Tiers as an alternative for conducting various competitive formats in the future. We will return with news closer to the beginning of the next season and tell you about the results of the implemented improvements and upcoming changes

Thank you for your attention, good battles, and see you next season, commanders!

 

 

Link:
https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/40

 

:fish_book:

Edited by S0und_Theif

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"Probably" WG responding to this:

"Probably" :fish_book:

Edited by S0und_Theif
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The last time I was this early, the most popular clan setup was Kremlin + bunch of Stalingrad...

*ahem*

The balance is always broken to begin with, and WG literally just pour more fuel into the fire whenever they implement something big into the game. We have yet to see how the T10 subs will be, but surely they too will be integrated into Clan battles in the future.

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T6 CB

[Ark Royal intensifies]

*someone knocks the door*

Edited by Onlinegamer

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14 minutes ago, Onlinegamer said:

T6 CB

[Ark Royal intensifies]

*someone knocks the door*

ark.thumb.jpg.ad27b633239805e473d39fa3c73a62f8.jpg

:Smile_hiding:

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Tier 1 Clan Battles/Clan Brawl/Ranked/Ranked Sprint with 0 point captain skill limit when?

Edited by Paladinum
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12 minutes ago, S0und_Theif said:

ark.thumb.jpg.ad27b633239805e473d39fa3c73a62f8.jpg

:Smile_hiding:

Ah, the destroyer-con. Nothing to see here, folks. 

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Let me start with: I TOLD YOU SO.

CV cannot especially be in CW because it confers advantages that unicums exploit to the max. It is not the ship that is the issue. The issue is that you have good players. Why only the issue in the top ranks? The nerfs are going to affect the average player. Why they are doing is trying to balance ships that have special "gimmicks" that confer special advantages to them. You cannot attempt to balance gimmicks because each gimmick works differently. The Range gimmick is the worst. You practically cannot hit anything at >15km range unless your aim prediction is clairvoyant or your target doesn't know the meaning of WASD Hax. As much as I like CV, I absolutely do not think it has a role in CW. 7v7 is completely different from 12v12. In randoms you have a larger target selection which you have to decide on. In 7v7 your choices are advantageously limited so you can easily pick what to do. Venezia's problem is 1) smoke gimmick and 2) SAP gimmick. Honestly, it is the only pasta cruiser that is decent with the rest of the line being utterly expired pasta.

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16 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Let me start with: I TOLD YOU SO.

CV cannot especially be in CW because it confers advantages that unicums exploit to the max. It is not the ship that is the issue. The issue is that you have good players. Why only the issue in the top ranks? The nerfs are going to affect the average player. Why they are doing is trying to balance ships that have special "gimmicks" that confer special advantages to them. You cannot attempt to balance gimmicks because each gimmick works differently. The Range gimmick is the worst. You practically cannot hit anything at >15km range unless your aim prediction is clairvoyant or your target doesn't know the meaning of WASD Hax. As much as I like CV, I absolutely do not think it has a role in CW. 7v7 is completely different from 12v12. In randoms you have a larger target selection which you have to decide on. In 7v7 your choices are advantageously limited so you can easily pick what to do. Venezia's problem is 1) smoke gimmick and 2) SAP gimmick. Honestly, it is the only pasta cruiser that is decent with the rest of the line being utterly expired pasta.

Nerf unicum players, not ships.

Don’t punish us mediocre players (especially in randoms, where we don’t have ‘teamplay’) because unicums are good.

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1 minute ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Nerf unicum players, not ships.

Don’t punish us mediocre players (especially in randoms, where we don’t have ‘teamplay’) because unicums are good.

Do what previous ranked seasons do. The elite get to go into a different tier/map pool. Like T10s until they reach Rank 1, then they play T6. I wish wg would really get their heads out of the spreadshit ground like the proverbial ostrich's head in the sand...

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From what I have read the problem with CVs in the current clan season is the spotting they bring, not so much the damage they do. I thought WG was testing minimap spotting only for CVs, what happened to that?

6 hours ago, S0und_Theif said:

In the near future, we will conduct a test session with the following parameters: Destroyers' detectability range by air will be decreased by half, but when AA defense is turned on, their detectability range by air will be equal to their AA firing range for 20 seconds after the AA guns cease firing.

This is a freaking stupid diea. This just makes any DD AA that isn't Halland worthless. Right now you can still play with DD AA by ambushing planes nearby planes and turning it off again, or helping out a fellow ship under air attack. Buff DD air detectability if necessary but there really is no need to touch AA DD in this manner. If Halland AA is too powerful then nerf the darn thing already, no need to touch other DDs.

Edited by Thyaliad
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For the first time, I am totally not looking forward to an upcoming season of CBs. 

The majority of other unicums also feel the same way. 

Sad. 

Edited by LordTyphoon

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3 hours ago, LordTyphoon said:

For the first time, I am totally not looking forward to an upcoming season of CBs. 

The majority of other unicums also feel the same way. 

Sad. 

Talking what i felt WOT clan wars before

T6 they used Cromwell and KV-2 (that time i has max T8)

It was about 5 years i think 

What i felt

Ok im done clan wars Cromwell 9 tanks rushed together

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WG have shown time and again they are committed to CV's being available in every game mode, as a class completely equal to BB's, cruisers, and DD's in their importance to the game.  There were people asking for CV's to be removed from clan battles, and that was never going to be an option, so makes the argument pointless to begin with.  What should be focused on is how to improve the way the classes interact to solve any issues the class has in a competitive setting.

I like the fact they are addressing DD's and CV's, but the method they are considering is not a good one.  It makes DD AA pointless for most DD's, you'll be punished for turning it on.

I am very much looking forward to a T6 clan battle season, I've personally asked over and over again for a lower tier season, because the DD to cruiser inter-class balance at T10 is very poor.  DD's should be a lot more viable at tier 6 - they certainly were at tier 8 and that was the best season yet imo.

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As an occasional DD Captain. I typically keep m AA off until already spotted, and then activate to get a few ticks of damage in, then deactivate as soon as out of range (or sooner). This is good to help the other ships.

As many know, the major problem with CVs Against DDs is not the CV itself, but spotting for the rest of it’s team. The proposed change is basically making the CV’s job harder, while also making the DD’s job harder, and encouraging selfish play. Not to mention punishing those noobs who don’t turn their AA off. Which is a problem for me if they’re on my team.

Seriously, just limit team spotting for CV. 5 to 10 second delay, enough. Enough so CVs have to make a choice between focusing on spotting DD for allies and flying over them to go after something else.

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55 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

As an occasional DD Captain. I typically keep m AA off until already spotted, and then activate to get a few ticks of damage in, then deactivate as soon as out of range (or sooner). This is good to help the other ships.

As many know, the major problem with CVs Against DDs is not the CV itself, but spotting for the rest of it’s team. The proposed change is basically making the CV’s job harder, while also making the DD’s job harder, and encouraging selfish play. Not to mention punishing those noobs who don’t turn their AA off. Which is a problem for me if they’re on my team.

Seriously, just limit team spotting for CV. 5 to 10 second delay, enough. Enough so CVs have to make a choice between focusing on spotting DD for allies and flying over them to go after something else.

I like your idea. I was driving earlier and thinking of this issue and my solution was to kill spotting for the rest of the team and only the CV can actually see the ships from their PoV while everyone else has to make do with the minimap. But your solution is just as workable.

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18 hours ago, Sting_Ray_05 said:

Ah, the destroyer-con. Nothing to see here, folks. 

Correction, that one there is Bisko's stalker.

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17 minutes ago, Nork22 said:

Correction, that one there is Bisko's stalker.

Maybe after the anime ended where Iron Blood and the Sakura Empire is now allied to Azure Lane. At the moment, she's any destroyer's stalker. Unless we're talking about Kancolle's version. 

@ topic - Having a CV would be an advantage to any team as long as it's player is good. Otherwise, it would be a disadvantage to the team. 

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27 minutes ago, Sting_Ray_05 said:

@ topic - Having a CV would be an advantage to any team as long as it's player is good. Otherwise, it would be a disadvantage to the team. 

Correct. And the reason things got hairy at the top groups is because they were all filled with unicum CV players where making even the slightest mistake gifts your opponent. It is not the ship that is the issue; it is because we are seeing top players duking it out.

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2 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Seriously, just limit team spotting for CV. 5 to 10 second delay, enough. Enough so CVs have to make a choice between focusing on spotting DD for allies and flying over them to go after something else.

This is a very good idea. WG can even it combine it with minimap spotting - first 10 seconds minimap spotting only, full spotting after 10s.

Radar already has this kind of delay so it shouldn't be too hard to implement.

2 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

WG have shown time and again they are committed to CV's being available in every game mode, as a class completely equal to BB's, cruisers, and DD's in their importance to the game.  There were people asking for CV's to be removed from clan battles, and that was never going to be an option, so makes the argument pointless to begin with.  What should be focused on is how to improve the way the classes interact to solve any issues the class has in a competitive setting.

Precisely. It is very clear that WG wants CVs in competitive modes so rather than throwing a tantrum and threatening a boycott, people would be better off suggesting ways to make sure they fight. But then again it is NA, land of the entitled.

46 minutes ago, Sting_Ray_05 said:

Unless we're talking about Kancolle's version. 

He was referencing Kancolle's Ark Royal who is only interested in Bismarck.

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3 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Seriously, just limit team spotting for CV. 5 to 10 second delay, enough. Enough so CVs have to make a choice between focusing on spotting DD for allies and flying over them to go after something else.

Simple idea and the mechanics are already in the game.

Me like. :Smile_medal:

Edited by S0und_Theif
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wg has lost the plot since they are "balancing" ships for random gameplay where there is no to minimal team effort and everyone is for themselves. When you get ships that work poorly in random because they are supposed to work as a team and put them in a proper team so they function as intended, suddenly they "become too powerful". -shock-.... 

NOT.

Edited by dejiko_nyo

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Oh great Fighters will be rebalanced,idk what will they do about catapult launched aircrafts.

Edited by IJN_Katori

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The one that Leashed old CV in term of Spotting is always The Opponent CV

Each CV try to contest for Air Superiority, and That what makes intra class Balance works in High Teamwork enviroment.

 

Edited by humusz

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3 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

This is a very good idea. WG can even it combine it with minimap spotting - first 10 seconds minimap spotting only, full spotting after 10s.

Radar already has this kind of delay so it shouldn't be too hard to implement.

Precisely. It is very clear that WG wants CVs in competitive modes so rather than throwing a tantrum and threatening a boycott, people would be better off suggesting ways to make sure they fight. But then again it is NA, land of the entitled.

He was referencing Kancolle's Ark Royal who is only interested in Bismarck.

I'm with this suggestion. Also, @ Ark Royal - seen the meme way back, had to laugh at the historical joke. 

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