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Earl_of_Arland

How to counter high tiers Italian cruisers?

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Hello everyone, new player here

Most of the cruisers i encounter has good, uhm, "counter" or ways to defeat em. Say, German one are weak against sustained HE spam, or IJN CA are weak if lured into medium range. Or else, angle. But when i found this pastas, most of the time i either ran from the encounter with a fraction of my HP left, or they are the one that run without being hurt at all. I'm not that great in World of Warships, i don't have any good stats to speak of, and i don't have Saipan.

Anyone has advice?

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83
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The Counter technique is depends on what ship you are using.

I will share the techniques of some ships that I have experience:

1. Smolensk: This is a no brainer way. Just smoke up. If you can't see it after smoke up, just wait. Normally the opponent will not smoke first. It will smoke up only after you bombard it. After you can't see each other.... Just wait. Don't run way. Get your torp ready. When it renders up visible, release the torp then bombard with AP. It is too late to angling for the target and your AP DPM is too fast to be raced. Don't forget to turn on your Hydro soon after smoke up. It might trying to torp you in the smoke. Your intuition must go fast to notice when it suddenly broadsiding. If it does, send it to the bottom of the sea with AP. The best if you have engine mod to accelerate your speed from zero.

2. Yoshino, Hindenburg: full bowing (not angling). This is to lower the chance many SAP shells land to your ship. If the range is close, use one rack of torp to strict the incoming target, meanwhile you go circling trying to get its broadside. Release another torp trying to make it cross fired. If you manage to go broadside. Go with AP. It doesn't matter if both of you broadsiding each other, you going to kill each other. Only one ship will leave the scene. If the range is medium to far, better angling away and go dark. There is no use exchanging shell unnecessarily and loss a big chunk of HP.

3. Z-52: My favorite DD that always hunt down Venezia. Go a bit close to your detection border, but not too close. Leave 1 km gap away from your detection border. Smoke up then rain it down until you can't see it anymore. The Venezia intuition is always closing up to kill you. It may take circling way, or straight to your position. Turn on the Hydro. The Venezia will get an unpleasant surprise. Keep rain it down with shell until it turns away, calculate the target circle and release one rack of torp. It is guaranteed it got a lesson not play with you again. When it turns away from you, don't miss the chance to get away too avoiding unnecessary drama. But then if it insist to chase you, kite it from the conceal and release another torp.

 

It will be great if you would provide in what ship are you using, because each ship has different tactic to cope with these SAP throwers.

Edited by Robby_Hermanto
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568
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SAP penetrates most ship in the game (54mm penetration)  unless you a kremlin, there not much u can do to avoid damage  except to try WASD dodging their shells

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Earl_of_Arland said:

Hello everyone, new player here

Most of the cruisers i encounter has good, uhm, "counter" or ways to defeat em. Say, German one are weak against sustained HE spam, or IJN CA are weak if lured into medium range. Or else, angle. But when i found this pastas, most of the time i either ran from the encounter with a fraction of my HP left, or they are the one that run without being hurt at all. I'm not that great in World of Warships, i don't have any good stats to speak of, and i don't have Saipan.

Anyone has advice?

depends on the ship, for the higher tiers ones amalfi has low DPM so as long as you can see and spot it you should be fine since he cant really kill you fast

Brindisi has more guns but a thin ass profile, she hits much harder but will get blapped in return and her concealment isn't that good

ven... bow in or run, it takes concentrated focus fire to kill one and nothing can beat it in damage at mid ranges 

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134
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I'd say Moskva with rail gun who can citadel before a Venezia can turn.

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32 minutes ago, sfcgx3 said:

I'd say Moskva with rail gun who can citadel before a Venezia can turn.

no, not a chance in hell will a moskva kill a ven through cits if the ven knows he's there, not even stalin has the ability to citadel a ven on demand, she has that big ass 40mm plate and the turning speed/radious of a DD. if you played the last T10 rank/CW season you'd know how mind-numbing frustrating trying to kill one of them are. you'd either need to bring a overmatch BB, a LOT of DPM and only when he gets too close, or crossfire from ships with high Penn but no overmatch(406BBs/stalins)

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10
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U cant do much against venezia, theres no counter other than trying to shoot her back and hoping it hits her citadel or cause heavy damage. HE cruiser has the best chance going up against venezia since they can burn venezia. Venezia is way too agile for a T10 cruiser, even des moines has cits all over her body while venezia is like nope, bounce

 

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830
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But italian CA were vulnerable by AP on the broadside or plunging shot 

Edited by THAI_THIEF

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1 minute ago, THAI_THIEF said:

But italian CA were vulnerable by AP on the broadside or plunging shot 

yes, but first you have to catch them by surprise and get those shots in first.

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1 hour ago, Dread_Pirate_BlackHeart said:

Mentioning Saipan is rather specific, why?.

Just to be sure, maybe a useful info. And also, i feel like luck spat on my matchmaking, but eh, i accept it. It's randoms afterall, nothing is rigged right?

:Smile_trollface:

Alright, so based on the replies...Either i take a shot when he's broadside from afar (which to be honest, is a hard thing to do factoring the speed, angle, and maneuverability) or lure him to close in and bombard the thing?

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First and foremost, We have to understand the strengths of it
Extremely tight turning circle - For a cruiser, she is very, very nimble. Some players will run income fire alert which makes hitting the ship even harder
"Get-me-out-of-jail-smoke" - Smoke on the go if you want to turn broadside, mitigate damage
Trollish deck armor - At times u are capable of bouncing off AP shells as long as u r well angled.
Good firing angles - For a 15 gun cruiser, she has absurd angles for her guns 

Unfortunately, not much of a counter is possible due to the ship's nature of hit-hard-and-stealth (she hits even harder than Zao due to 15 guns). In skilled hands, she is virtually unsinkable. You can only pray that the driver is either a donkey(stays at far range, farming only damage and doesn't help the team, overextends, etc) or not paying attention while you are taking the shot. Try not to take on Venezia in a 1v1 situation, she will melt you down, just hope that the team wins the other side quickly so you can overwhelm it with sheer numbers.   

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I can confirm as AkaNo said.

Personally speaking the only ships that can go in 1v1 against Venezia are

  1. Kremlin thanks to the Stalinium armor that can bounce those pasta shells.
  2. Yoshino by trading shots from long range (both with HE spam & 20km torps):Smile_trollface:

Other than those, you need to gang up with 1 o 2 other ships because Venezia's high alpha damage is offset by 20 s reload. Any ship with that RoF can never win against multiple ships.

Brindisi is much easier to deal with. Anything with big AP can blow it into pieces.

Amalfi is somewhat more tanky than Brindisi. The lack of heal is what keeping her acceptable at T8.

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1,182
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Venezia is OP, and there isn't a ship in the game that has a favourable match up against it.  It will likely be nerfed soon.

Things to note when fighting against it - the SAP angles for Venezia are 75-80° (70-80° for lower tier RM CA's).  That means if you are showing even the slightest angle, you will be penned.  Effective armour angle does not apply to SAP, it's pen check works the same as HE after the SAP has bounce checked.

The pen for Venezia is 54mm.  In most ships, it will pen you - exceptions are Yamato, Musashi, and Kremlin.  Know your armour scheme and thicknesses to know how vulnerable the ship you are sailing is to being penned.

The potential Venezia alpha of a single SAP salvo is 25k (the next best cruiser is Zao with 13k - clearly there is nothing wrong here! /s), and Venezia has some of the fastest shells in the game making hitting targets at long ranges fairly simple.  Any DD players will see that number and realise that it is more health than their DD actually has.  This is a problem, and why a Venezia is the most dangerous anti-DD ship in the game.  I can deal with CV's all day, but if you get spotted at less than 17km from a Venezia and don't angle fast enough your battle can be over.  When you look for radars, you should be looking for RM CA's as well, and maintain awareness of their position and how recently they have fired for as much of the battle as possible.  Remember the SAP angles though - if you go perfectly bow or stern in from the incoming SAP shells, you will significantly reduce the damage you take.  You have to see those shells coming though - lose awareness of them and you're dead.

The smoke firing range of Venezia is 9.9km.  This is one way I use to increase the chance of killing a Venezia - if you get your DD under 10km away (stealthed obviously) and the Venezia smokes, turns and fires, he will be spotted in his smoke at the most vulnerable point as he turns broadside, and I've helped a fair few Venezias take big damage or die this way.

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757
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You kill the eyes

Venezia is actualy is one of the hardest cruiser to play if your team lack of spotting mechanism. say if your team DD was died, and enemy DD agresively scout, Finding optimal angle, disengage and engaging can be challanging. Playing Venezia without spotter VS a  Team with Good DD is difficult, as Venezia dont realy have tool to handle DD by themself

one of the main reins, that Chain Venezia of becoming Menace in highest play like KOTS is the scarity of Spotting, They will murder any ships that is not Kremlin if there CV in it

 

on the other hand, in 1 on 1 if DM fight Venezia bellow 10k, DM can win easily

Edited by humusz
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163
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Tell the CV in your team that flanking vene is food for him.

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1 hour ago, humusz said:

Venezia is actualy is one of the hardest cruiser to play

Let me stop you right there.

Venezia is the easiest T10 to play in the game.  It is almost entirely brainless, and in fact you're invariably actively punished for trying to overthink it and do something as "high level" as switch ammo types.  Just stay at range, use SAP, aim at the middle of a ship, rake in the damage.  If you make a mistake, you press your "I'd like there to be no consequences to my mistake please" button, and sail away.

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4 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Let me stop you right there.

Venezia is the easiest T10 to play in the game.  It is almost entirely brainless, and in fact you're invariably actively punished for trying to overthink it and do something as "high level" as switch ammo types.  Just stay at range, use SAP, aim at the middle of a ship, rake in the damage.  If you make a mistake, you press your "I'd like there to be no consequences to my mistake please" button, and sail away.

Being Hardest to play with lack of Spoting and Being Overall Hardest to play is Totaly Diffrent thing

are you drunk or something ?

 

also Smolensk is Easier to Play than venezia

Edited by humusz

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Venezia isn't any more difficult to play with a lack of spotting than any other cruiser or BB - not having anything to shoot at doesn't make your life difficult.

Smolensk is considerably more difficult to play that Venezia, since it is much easier to kill and has to operate significantly closer to its target.  You rarely get punished for mistakes in Venezia, but that happens often in Smolensk.

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49 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Venezia isn't any more difficult to play with a lack of spotting than any other cruiser or BB - not having anything to shoot at doesn't make your life difficult.

Smolensk is considerably more difficult to play that Venezia, since it is much easier to kill and has to operate significantly closer to its target.  You rarely get punished for mistakes in Venezia, but that happens often in Smolensk.

You can have range mod + AFT and smolensk and have 20km EZ HE spam gameplay. that depends on Subjective gameplay,

on The lowest of the Low, The Overall Skill floor is lower on Smolensk than Venezia.

 

Multiplayer Experience in game design dont count "Skill level" of Players, since it unknown variable, Thats why there term Skill floor and Skill celling is always based on ingame parameter (/stats of your ships/hero/character or whatever) not META.

back to smolensk -Venezia example, for venezia you need to some moderate - advanced knowledge of the game like angling, which part of ship you can pen which can not, WASD kiting, knowing smoke firing penalty, The Long reload also means you Punished heavily for every shoot you missed, its not too long ranged either which mean you exposed more to enemy fire etc

Smolensk was simpler you can have very long range, HE munition that need less knowledge about the game to use effectively (you can hit whatever part and rewarded with fire), Gun with high ROF is always mean the aiming is less punishing in every game design, smoke make things easier since it less dependant of utilizing Line of sight blocker which another more advanced knowledge of the game

 

The only thing why you say venezia easier, is because it bassed on your experience which is subjective. you already have advanced game knowledge that in your head for what ever long you playing

But............You can pick some totaly noob fresh player, try those 2 ships. and I guarantee, He/She would pick smolensk as having Easier gameplay. Just by having High ROF, would make people feel its something Easier

 

Experienced and Better Player always Favor Consistency, and Venezia is the most consistent Ships in T10. but it by no means the Easiest to play. 

Edited by humusz

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Easy to play .. well my understanding of that is it means user friendly in play, tolerant of player error, offering flexibility and utility, and still do the part to inflick on enemy when chance presents - and both Venezia & Smolensk IMHO are not the easy to play Cruiser choice , there are easier to play T10 Cruiser , the just might not be that good at damage dealing potential though

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3 hours ago, Mechfori said:

Easy to play .. well my understanding of that is it means user friendly in play, tolerant of player error, offering flexibility and utility, and still do the part to inflick on enemy when chance presents - and both Venezia & Smolensk IMHO are not the easy to play Cruiser choice , there are easier to play T10 Cruiser , the just might not be that good at damage dealing potential though

Require less skill to play, require less game understanding to play, less mechanic involved, since its shooting game gunnery experience also play major part.

Smolensk is not the easiest, but she is on lower side of skill floor departement, while worchester is on the harder side of spectrum. Speaking of worchester

 

ThereLWM post where she give some explanation on what criteria WG decide balancing stuff like that.

I remember she give chart where it display that Kurfurst is 20 times lower in skill floor than worchester. But skill celling of worchester is 3 times higher (performance of top player).

Worchester is one of the harder ships to play, where german BB have lower skill floor. Not to mention cruiser is undoubtly the harder class overall.

 

What cruiser line you recomend to someone totaly new to world of warships, thats should give you rough idea the lowest skill floor, easiest gameplay of the bunch.

For me, Russian line or german line. And Definitly not British and Italian

 

Edited by humusz

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836
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Definitely the German line ; while they might not had the best in dealing damage ( exception to Nuremberg ) they are fairly tolerant to players ; the USS CA branch is good contender too. 

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28
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italy CA is heavily rely on sight  and scout

their ballstic is flat so use the moutain if you are driving woster or de mine

think them as warhoge or sth,never, attack them head-on, set a trap, lure them in, and attack quickly

 

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