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InterconKW

Player Attitudes, Steamrolls, Statshaming and Entitlement [Opinion]

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It's been a while since I started any new threads.

I've been playing WoWs actively since December 2019, moreso in the last few months (especially since for unspecified reasons I have been working largely from home). So I suppose I have a lot to get off my chest. This is wordy. Be ready.

Personally, I feel the quality of play on Asia has degraded substantially compared to about a year ago, when the meta was still distinctively kiting and angling, to a more chaotic and aggressive, sometimes suicidally aggressive one. It isn't unusual to see many ships dead in or around caps or overextended down the flanks etc. etc.


1. PLAYER QUALITY
Have you noticed the number of steamrolls on Asia recently? Today in 8 Tier X random games twice the enemy was reduced to 0 points. Yesterday, in the same number of games the enemy was reduced to 0 once. The day before that... was the first day I hadn't seen this happen on Asia. Because I was playing another game.

There's a logical reason. When there are no good players on a team, they are unable to make a reactive play (like setting up a defense or area denial) should they suffer an early disadvantage. Instead they start to feed, throwing away ship after ship into a growing enemy advantage. All the way until the points go to nil. It's a sign that frankly, people are getting worse.

Conversely, a single good player will recognize he can draw out the match even if defeat looks likely. This is why a team with even a small number of them can draw out a battle substantially. Sadly, a small number of good players seems to be too much to ask for in this day and age.

I think a lot of people have fundamental misunderstandings about being aggressive. Putting your battleship into the cap or your cruiser on the frontline or pinned to an island because you have a goal of holding down an area or taking out a certain enemy often fails to work because it is done without assessment of the whole game situation. In fact, it results in premature death due to you being the closest target to multiple enemies with no planned escape and only delays enemy moves rather than preventing them. Not worth losing a ship for. Most of the time if I die early in a match I find myself looking at the rest of the game playing out and realizing how much more I could have done had I just waited for a more favorable opening.


2. PLAYER ATTITUDE
The first thing I'd like to make clear after the above section. I don't inherently hate bad players. Many people going into WoWs will suffer if they go in blind. The game is not easy. However, there are some people...

"COWARD ZAO!" - A Thunderer sailing into 3 enemy cruisers around the C cap of Northern Lights
"HIDE IN BACK WHILE I DIE!" - The allied destroyer today who ate a hydro spotted torpedo then proceeded to push into a cap with an enemy cruiser instead of waiting.
"USELESS, NO SUPPORT" - A Kurfurst who pushed up to C on Okinawa and died, proceeding to blame my play for his death. Funny enough, I spotted the same player on the enemy today, dying within 10 minutes in a similar position.

It doesn't take long to find loud echo chambers on other WoWs related forums complaining about the game, complaining about allies, complaining about WG... In some (not all) cases this seems to be the vocal majority.

When was the last time you saw someone in-game admit they made a mistake? I don't think I've seen it apart from honestly myself.

You'll also see a relationship between people who complain excessively about their team or the game in this manner and their actual ingame performance (which I shall not specifically mention due to certain rules).  

It makes no sense. Why do single individual players expect the other 11 people on their team to accommodate for their possibly flawed strategies instead of just learning to observe his team situation and making plays accordingly? They do not gain anything performance wise by dying first because they expected their own ideal (that as I mentioned earlier is often actually a flawed one that makes them excessively vulnerable.)

Subsection: Entitlement
Let's be real here. Everyone would like to have good stats. Good winrates. Even the people who claim they are "playing for fun" most of the time would like to win. Winning is more fun and more rewarding. Plenty of people complain about having bad winrates but the painful irony of it is that many are not willing to work for it and learn the game or assess the game environment properly. Isn't it selfish?


3. THE GREAT WALL OF "STATSHAMING"
It's a common fact that bringing up a player's performance is against the rules on the forums or in official WG chats. The reason I've been given is that it prevents people from having stat wars on the forums. Seems fair, but... honestly, there's a problem.

When it comes to discussing the state of World of Warships, be it game mechanics, balance, game sense or even just giving a new player advice, the things bad players say or do (as mentioned above, often in anger or frustration) are far less useful information than information coming from someone who actually has a concrete idea of what is going on. However with this discernment removed, misunderstandings of the game can spread like wildfire. There is a difference between protecting people from being put down and protecting people who hide behind this wall to push whatever agendas they want just to feel better.

A CONTROVERSIAL THEORY
Putting all this together, I see a potential vicious cycle. People going into World of Warships blind perform poorly (since the game is... hard). They are reluctant to take the blame but inherently, they want to win. So they take to searching it up but run into these pools of people who play poorly but rant about the team or the game (balance, matchmaking etc.). This is easier to accept. These players thus continue to fail but push the fault away from themselves, developing very entitled and toxic attitudes. In their eyes, they are perfect and other things are not working for them, and many others seem to have the same "problem". Not discrediting bad players results in more and more bad players.

I may talk more about game balance later, but for now this is all I'm bothered to say...

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“you think you're better than me? so what if you have better stats, must be luck"

"how dare you tell me I lack game sense and skill, I'm trying to pin the blame on something else"

"why shouldn't I complain about another strat/ship class that I know nothing about?"

"I died in some stupid manner, I'm going to take this as proof that XXX is OP because it got me killed once”
 

Edited by CV_NMSL
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54 minutes ago, InterconKW said:

A CONTROVERSIAL THEORY
Putting all this together, I see a potential vicious cycle. People going into World of Warships blind perform poorly (since the game is... hard). They are reluctant to take the blame but inherently, they want to win. So they take to searching it up but run into these pools of people who play poorly but rant about the team or the game (balance, matchmaking etc.). This is easier to accept. These players thus continue to fail but push the fault away from themselves, developing very entitled and toxic attitudes. In their eyes, they are perfect and other things are not working for them, and many others seem to have the same "problem". Not discrediting bad players results in more and more bad players.

In other words, WoWs players have a very bad case of Dunning–Kruger effect.

They see themselves as being perfect players, therefore if they perform poorly, the fault must lie elsewhere and not within themselves.

And imo it doesn't help that some big name CCs are incredibly toxic and tend to badmouth everything, whether it be bad teammates or game balance or whatever.

For newer players watching them, this just reinforces the belief that everything bad that happens is because of bad teammates or poor balance, rather than internal factors like your own skill or mistakes.

And the moment you start blaming external factors instead of taking responsibility for your own shortcomings, you stop learning. And when you stop learning, you will stop improving and you will just blame everything else even more. 

It is a death spiral.

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7 minutes ago, Thyaliad said:

In other words, WoWs players have a very bad case of Dunning–Kruger effect.

https://ngabbs.com/read.php?tid=19714063

my post in the Chinese community teaching them about that

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while all the stated is somewhat matter of fact, its only part of the story , the flip side of that is out of the almost hysterical fear of enemy fire, and at all cost to survive, its that same mentality that put almost all the guns big and small way out, way back, way wide and basically unable to actually construct let alone fight the front, its sadly the case today. So many time right from the start of the game already seen Cruiser turning tail, BB would only sail parallel to the front but never forcing itself up ..

in the end that meta go back to hurt, as those who need to go up front simply because they cannot do anything at range are either forced to go without a proper team roster, support, and so and die quick and now blamed by the team, or they can choose to stay well within proper battle line / formation of the now always stay way back guns and basically contribute nothing and still got blamed by the the team

point 1 and point 2 of OP's post goes hand in hand ... cautious, methodical player do know when to fight and when not to but when that go too much towards one's own survival over the team's tactical situation it will fast become a talking point as stated in point 2, and that is unfortunately a very common occurrence today

Do not keep blaming the bad player or the less skilled, its actually the one whose familiar with the game that's breaking the game ; since they know how to exploit the loophole and in-balance ; so sorry OP what you had said only reflect part of the story and not the totality of it and thus the theory do not hold

Edited by Mechfori

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re the 'player attitude' section in the OP, I sometimes wonder if the toxic behaviour in chat comes from the fact many gamers didn't play a lot of competitive sport growing up.

Bare with me.

All the years I played amateur but competitive football there were always people on the team who were considerably better players than others, some were much smarter and understood the game better, or were more experienced players, and some just didn't quite have the physical attributes to compete as well as others. They were just never going to be as good as the better players, not ever, and that's ok. Sometimes this meant you got thrashed. But we loved to play the game, and felt lucky to have others who also loved the game enough to play it with us. At the end of the match, win or lose, we'd all sit and have a laugh and a beer. 

The thought there would be recriminations and abuse towards those 'weaker' members of the team, no matter how they performed, for a game played for fun? Never in a millions years would cross anyone's mind... 

The player base in Wows will never change. It's the nature of group activity. But if you get abusive in chat, you are wrong, no matter the reason. Wrong. 100% of the time. It's childish, counter productive and shows neither impulse control or knowledge of what can actually make people better.

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I think most of these came from the newcomers. I mean the ones who complain about all of those you mentioned are always the ones that have zero first-hand experience on the subjects. I admit I had the same attitude on my first 3k games; salty about stealth-torping DDs, salty about being one-hit KO by BBs, campers, etc.).

However personally speaking, I think it's a common phase that everyone has to get through. The only difference is some people would have moved on, and improve themselves later on. Some prefer to go through on a different shoe, some would be PvE mains. While those who are neither be able to move on nor to learn the things would quit from the game entirely, or just grew up to be the salty veterans.

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7 hours ago, Mechfori said:

while all the stated is somewhat matter of fact, its only part of the story , the flip side of that is out of the almost hysterical fear of enemy fire, and at all cost to survive, its that sam mentality that put almost all the guns big and small way out, way back, way wide and basically unable to actually construct let alone fight the front, its sadly the case today. So many time right from the stat of the game already seen Cruiser turning tail, BB would only sail parallel to the front but never forcing itself up ..

in the end that meta go back to hurt, as those who need to go up front simply because they cannot do anything at range are either forced to go without a proper team roster, support, and so and die quick and now blamed by the team, or they can choose to stay well within proper battle line / formation of the now always stay way back guns and basically contribute nothing and still got blamed by the the team

point 1 and point 2 of OP's post goes hand in hand ... cautious, methodical player do know when to fight and when not to but when that go too much towards one's own survival over the team's tactical situation it will fats become a talking point as stated in point 2, and that is unfortunately a very common occurrence today

Do not keep blaming the bad player or the less skilled, its actually the one whose familiar wit the game that's breaking the game ; since they know how to exploit the loophole and in-balance ; so sorry OP what you had said only reflect part of the story and not the totality of it and thus the theory do not hold

so what you are saying is... good players can exploit the meta and bad players don't know how to play? 

shocker

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7 hours ago, Mechfori said:

while all the stated is somewhat matter of fact, its only part of the story , the flip side of that is out of the almost hysterical fear of enemy fire, and at all cost to survive, its that sam mentality that put almost all the guns big and small way out, way back, way wide and basically unable to actually construct let alone fight the front, its sadly the case today. So many time right from the stat of the game already seen Cruiser turning tail, BB would only sail parallel to the front but never forcing itself up ..

in the end that meta go back to hurt, as those who need to go up front simply because they cannot do anything at range are either forced to go without a proper team roster, support, and so and die quick and now blamed by the team, or they can choose to stay well within proper battle line / formation of the now always stay way back guns and basically contribute nothing and still got blamed by the the team

point 1 and point 2 of OP's post goes hand in hand ... cautious, methodical player do know when to fight and when not to but when that go too much towards one's own survival over the team's tactical situation it will fats become a talking point as stated in point 2, and that is unfortunately a very common occurrence today

Do not keep blaming the bad player or the less skilled, its actually the one whose familiar wit the game that's breaking the game ; since they know how to exploit the loophole and in-balance ; so sorry OP what you had said only reflect part of the story and not the totality of it and thus the theory do not hold

I hate to say this, but this is an example of the misunderstanding I brought up in Point 1.

12 hours ago, InterconKW said:

Putting your battleship into the cap or your cruiser on the frontline or pinned to an island [or any equivalent] because you have a goal of holding down an area or taking out a certain enemy often fails to work because it is done without assessment of the whole game situation.

What this statement indicates is frankly someone at the lowest level of game sense. A player sees his team is always "too passive" and thinks these teammates "cannot do anything to impact the match". However, instead of playing around this fairly constant basic meta, they push themselves into the front thinking they will make an impact immediately, without really assessing if they have an opening to do so or not. 

As a result, they make themselves the most appealing target to an enemy majority and die to the enemy (thinking "no support").

The truth of this is that they end up throwing their ship away with awful damage done, thus meaning they are a net disadvantage to the team, and also almost never achieve their goal of making a difference to the match beyond causing the team to lose another ship (them) and thus putting the team even further backwards on points and damage dealing potential. This in turn hurts their overall winrate and performance etc. but since they were busy blaming the team, they never stopped to realize how much more effective they could have been if they had waited for an actual opening or just passively worn the enemy down. It's a very narrow minded and illogical attitude, but actually a very common one. 

Meanwhile, a better player will realize the tactical advantages of being in a neutral position and play around his team instead of expecting the whole game to change for them.

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I have less than a year playing this game, first install at the end of May 2019. For the first few months I was blissfully unaware of anything to do with meta or directive etc. I played co-op mostly and had a ball. I didn't even go into my first random battle until I already had the Konig. 

For a while, I got frustrated, and wrote salty comments in chat. But in my defense I was a total noob and had a lot to learn. Still do.

Luckily for me the CC I watched the most is Jingles, and I think his self depreciation has helped me keep perspective especially when watching Flamu (who is a brilliant player and I have learned so much from his videos). Flamu can be so damn toxic, but ultimately he is just one of dozens of CC's whose videos I watch, so his toxicity no longer rubs off on me at all. In fact I laugh at it now because I now view the toxic as a meme in itself.

I still play this game most days, I have the occasional day off, and sometimes I only play enough to complete the first daily mission chain. Quite often in co-op.

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I don't think newbies really complain, they're unexperienced, malleable and might just throw a few "wtf" moments whil still finding their way around.

To make a complaint requires some level of knowledge, right or wrong, to not instantly collapse.

With that said, bad "veterans" who have never learned, can and will corrupt new players. A false truth can hurt more than ignorance.

The game's fundamentals aren't very hard to grasp once you know the basic mechanics, although things like DDs might be a bit rougher. But it requires enough good veterans to demonstrate, so that new players can pick it up easily instead of sorting out the chaotic mess.

 

 

8 hours ago, Mechfori said:

Do not keep blaming the bad player or the less skilled, its actually the one whose familiar wit the game that's breaking the game ; since they know how to exploit the loophole and in-balance ; so sorry OP what you had said only reflect part of the story and not the totality of it and thus the theory do not hold

So knowing how to actually play is now a bad thing?

Edited by Verytis
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I play since they WIP released until 5 years now it's seem getting worst 

55 minutes ago, Verytis said:

they're unexperienced

They were pay to get high tier but they never learned 

No no no no no not like this ,you made high tier but your skill realize as a pro player now even play low to mid tier I shouldn't argue you but applaud you instead

Edited by THAI_THIEF

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1 hour ago, CV_NMSL said:

so what you are saying is... good players can exploit the meta and bad players don't know how to play? 

shocker

'bad players' or 'new players'?  From my interactions with you so far you appear to categorize any player who does not fit your mind set or match your stats as a bad player.  Again, from my interactions with you so far, all you do is work to put them down, make sure they know they suck.  Atta boy, you go son.

1 hour ago, Verytis said:

I don't think newbies really complain, they're unexperienced, malleable and might just throw a few "wtf" moments whil still finding their way around.

To make a complaint requires some level of knowledge, right or wrong, to not instantly collapse.

With that said, bad "veterans" who have never learned, can and will corrupt new players. A false truth can hurt more than ignorance.

The game's fundamentals aren't very hard to grasp once you know the basic mechanics, although things like DDs might be a bit rougher. But it requires enough good veterans to demonstrate, so that new players can pick it up easily instead of sorting out the chaotic mess.

 

 

So knowing how to actually play is now a bad thing?

I don't think knowing how to play is a bad thing, it takes time to get good in a game and there are frustrations along that road.  I am new to this game but have spent the last 30 years in ww2 fighter sims.  I see the same behaviour here as I saw there.  As a player went through the learning curve there was a lot of frustration and questioning how things happened and how someone was able to do xyz.....normal stuff.

Some veterans were helpful, some caustic and some just loved to club the baby seal because they could.  What I did see over the last 5 years that is common to this game is an aversion to the actual fight.  Players would try to find any way they could to win without actually fighting.  I see players here turn and run as soon as the enemy ship is spotted!!  Blows my mind.  This in turn leads to the frustrations I have when I find myself alone against 5.

Now, the 'experienced' players will tell me that it was my fault, I lacked awareness and finesse....yadda yadda.....TRUE, if I expected the 3 other ships to turn and run as the fight developed.  Not true if I expect people to get into a warship with the intent to fight.  Now, understand, I am not talking reckless, bot style, charge of the Light Brigade stuff here.  Simply a willingness to engage the enemy.  Many players here do not have that urge.

Yes I am learning and you may discount my opinions however many of my frustrations come from a lack of aggression (tempered not rackless).  You guys here to fight or go on a cruise?

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10 minutes ago, Rub1c0n said:

'bad players' or 'new players'?  From my interactions with you so far you appear to categorize any player who does not fit your mind set or match your stats as a bad player.  Again, from my interactions with you so far, all you do is work to put them down, make sure they know they suck.  Atta boy, you go son.

I feel I have to step in and say Drakon is a very good player, he knows what he is talking about and he will offer helpful advice and tactics to those willing to actually listen and learn from his experience. Not to make assumptions, but I would say that like me, he dislikes a bad player who blames others/ships etc rather than looking at what they can do better. If someone wants to stay bad, just sail around shooting things that's fine, but they shouldn't blame their failures on others.

I agree with you that sometimes teams can be too passive but that is more to do with players inability to read the game, and you frequently get the inverse where they are too aggressive for the same reasons. Not every battle can be a decicive charge, sometimes it's a long slow war of attrition. Not every victory can be all kills sometimes it is best to take caps and go dark. I would suggest listening to the advice of top players (except when drakon tells you its fine not to take a detonation flag) div with some if you can and work on tactics with them and you may just find you have more victories and you have more chances to make decisive plays too.

Also, though it's been a while, I'm always happy to see @CV_NMSL or any of his clanmates in battle as not only are they skilled (and a real challenge to face) but they are also just a decent bunch of guys.

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22 minutes ago, Rub1c0n said:
 
 
 
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15 minutes ago, Rub1c0n said:

'bad players' or 'new players'?  From my interactions with you so far you appear to categorize any player who does not fit your mind set or match your stats as a bad player.  Again, from my interactions with you so far, all you do is work to put them down, make sure they know they suck.  Atta boy, you go son.

dont try to wordplay here, you've already embarrassed yourself enough in the other post,  and I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong with the replay

bad players are bad for a variety of reasons, usually a refusal to learn, new players are bad by default but if they learn then they can do well and not suck. 

 

is that really such a hard concept to learn? 

plenty of people have complained on the forums, and I call them out for it as well as tell them why they are wrong, if they can critisism and not repeat it then they will improve, if the ignore it out of their own pride and continue to do their best to not learn anything then they will continue sucking

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4 minutes ago, blauflamme22 said:

Also, though it's been a while, I'm always happy to see @CV_NMSL or any of his clanmates in battle as not only are they skilled (and a real challenge to face) but they are also just a decent bunch of guys.

half the clan's AFK apart from in CW due to how mind-numbing hard it is to carry these days and we play on slightly different time zones, but it's always nice to see a few friendly faces in game 

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21 minutes ago, Rub1c0n said:

Some veterans were helpful, some caustic and some just loved to club the baby seal because they could.  What I did see over the last 5 years that is common to this game is an aversion to the actual fight.  Players would try to find any way they could to win without actually fighting.  I see players here turn and run as soon as the enemy ship is spotted!!  Blows my mind.  This in turn leads to the frustrations I have when I find myself alone against 5.

 Now, the 'experienced' players will tell me that it was my fault, I lacked awareness and finesse....yadda yadda.....TRUE, if I expected the 3 other ships to turn and run as the fight developed.  Not true if I expect people to get into a warship with the intent to fight.  Now, understand, I am not talking reckless, bot style, charge of the Light Brigade stuff here.  Simply a willingness to engage the enemy.  Many players here do not have that urge.

 Yes I am learning and you may discount my opinions however many of my frustrations come from a lack of aggression (tempered not rackless).  You guys here to fight or go on a cruise?

Here we have another example of my point 1 misunderstanding. 

1 hour ago, InterconKW said:

What this statement indicates is frankly someone at the lowest level of game sense. A player sees his team is always "too passive" and thinks these teammates "cannot do anything to impact the match". However, instead of playing around this fairly constant basic meta, they push themselves into the front thinking they will make an impact immediately, without really assessing if they have an opening to do so or not. 

As a result, they make themselves the most appealing target to an enemy majority and die to the enemy (thinking "no support").

These people who push are only looking narrowly at "engaging the enemy" instead of analyzing the whole flow of the game and realizing a more neutral interception instead of pushing towards them is usually far more tactically advantageous or realizing that inherently, aggression into an enemy majority or even just into the enemy side is a huge disadvantage and they will get overwhelmed. It is like trying to cross a 5 lane expressway just because the first lane has no traffic.

But no. They're so selfish they point the blame at the people who turned back for their deaths instead of playing around how the game actually works. This is the second post in this thread reaffirming my point.

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lol  here we go again.

I have not embarrassed myself at all.  I told you what I experienced, you refuse to accept it, instead preferring to try to put me down.  You wonder why I fire back?

I do not use Shadowplay so have no replay to prove or disprove.

No, it is not a hard concept to learn.  As I said, I have been around the block, naval warfare is new to me but the concept of tactics and when to push, when to back off is nothing new to me.  You may be a good player, I have may have much to learn but you sir can take your attitude and stick it.

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3 minutes ago, Rub1c0n said:

the concept of tactics and when to push, when to back off is nothing new to me.

I'm not sure if your previous post in this thread gives me much confidence in this statement. Feel free to give me some concrete proof of in game performance showing otherwise though.

This being said, I made my other point clear. I'm not against helping players, but from experience many think they are already perfect despite being far from it and won't try to learn.

Edited by InterconKW

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5 minutes ago, Rub1c0n said:

lol  here we go again.

I have not embarrassed myself at all.  I told you what I experienced, you refuse to accept it, instead preferring to try to put me down.  You wonder why I fire back?

I do not use Shadowplay so have no replay to prove or disprove.

No, it is not a hard concept to learn.  As I said, I have been around the block, naval warfare is new to me but the concept of tactics and when to push, when to back off is nothing new to me.  You may be a good player, I have may have much to learn but you sir can take your attitude and stick it.

image.thumb.png.dd19dff325226df549eeb4597c9f4c3b.png

there, no more excuses of "no replays", WG records all your replays for you, i don't know if you said that you didn't have replays on out of sheer ignorance or you just don't want to upload it. but you can just go by this pathway and upload the match where you screwed up

 

unless you are just afraid to be proven wrong?

Edited by CV_NMSL
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2 minutes ago, InterconKW said:

Here we have another example of my point 1 misunderstanding. 

These people who push are only looking narrowly at "engaging the enemy" instead of analyzing the whole flow of the game and realizing a more neutral interception instead of pushing towards them is usually far more tactically advantageous or realizing that inherently, aggression into an enemy majority or even just into the enemy side is a huge disadvantage and they will get overwhelmed. It is like trying to cross a 5 lane expressway just because the first lane has no traffic.

But no. They're so selfish they point the blame at the people who turned back for their deaths instead of playing around how the game actually works. This is the second post in this thread reaffirming my point.

Oh I agree with your argument.  For many years I have taught players to not dive in after that easy kill because there is a pack of wolves ready to smash him.  A bit like chasing a feeling DD, it is not going to end well.  However I also know when the time is right to push and dominate.  That is in air combat, I am learning the nuances of sea combat.

As for blaming for deaths, yeah I do it from time to time.  Sometimes I am right, sometimes wrong.  I am probably more aggressive than most players (again note not reckless, aggressive) and there are many occasions where IF the others had been aggressive and stayed with me we could have made a massive difference.  Of course there are occasions where I was a dick, did not read the play properly and got smacked.  That is all good in a combat game.

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6 minutes ago, InterconKW said:

I'm not sure if your previous post in this thread gives me much confidence in this statement. Feel free to give me some concrete proof of in game performance showing otherwise though.

This being said, I made my other point clear. I'm not against helping players, but from experience many think they are already perfect despite being far from it and won't try to learn.

wow.  ummm ok.  Sir, I have been playing combat games for 30 years.  I get it.  Please describe what 'concrete proof' means?

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Just now, Rub1c0n said:

wow.  ummm ok.  Sir, I have been playing combat games for 30 years.  I get it.  Please describe what 'concrete proof' means?

your refusal to acknowledge your own failings over the multiple jabs we traded should be concrete enough

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7 minutes ago, CV_NMSL said:

image.thumb.png.dd19dff325226df549eeb4597c9f4c3b.png

there, no more excuses of "no replays", WG records all your replays for you, i don't know if you said that you didn't have replays on out of sheer ignorance or you just don't want to upload it. but you can just go by this pathway and upload the match where you screwed up

 

unless you are just afraid to be proven wrong?

And here we go again.  Attitude central.

'Sheer ignorance'  yep you got me.  Does that make me a 'new' or a 'bad' player or am I just playing with words?

Again with your arrogance. <sigh>  let me look for that folder

 

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1 minute ago, CV_NMSL said:

your refusal to acknowledge your own failings over the multiple jabs we traded should be concrete enough

yep.  Thanks for your assessment sir

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