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legionary2099

Just a CV rant, don't read if you hate CV

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Well, there's goes CV i guess. They have really ruined it for me.

Because : cool down time between dive bomber attack increase. This really kills any hope of using them effectively. They are already the most difficult and RNG blessed mechanics of CV and yet now there's no reward for actually setting up attack. There's no double jump to kill heavy AA using SKILL TM too.

It would be fun if they make the bomb predictable so you could snipe with skill for the massive penalties, but nope. RNG decide your fate, a well aimed dive could just all splash no damage and half your squads blown to pieces.

Guess the CV haters got what they want. Next what will they get : Ships that armor proof CV ? :Smile_teethhappy:.

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1 hour ago, legionary2099 said:

Well, there's goes CV i guess. They have really ruined it for me.

Because : cool down time between dive bomber attack increase. This really kills any hope of using them effectively. They are already the most difficult and RNG blessed mechanics of CV and yet now there's no reward for actually setting up attack. There's no double jump to kill heavy AA using SKILL TM too.

It would be fun if they make the bomb predictable so you could snipe with skill for the massive penalties, but nope. RNG decide your fate, a well aimed dive could just all splash no damage and half your squads blown to pieces.

Guess the CV haters got what they want. Next what will they get : Ships that armor proof CV ? :Smile_teethhappy:.

Just Dodge☢️

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1 hour ago, legionary2099 said:

Well, there's goes CV i guess. They have really ruined it for me.

Because : cool down time between dive bomber attack increase. This really kills any hope of using them effectively. They are already the most difficult and RNG blessed mechanics of CV and yet now there's no reward for actually setting up attack. There's no double jump to kill heavy AA using SKILL TM too.

It would be fun if they make the bomb predictable so you could snipe with skill for the massive penalties, but nope. RNG decide your fate, a well aimed dive could just all splash no damage and half your squads blown to pieces.

Guess the CV haters got what they want. Next what will they get : Ships that armor proof CV ? :Smile_teethhappy:.

Yes. The DBs now suck <insert anatomical part here> Might as well just have one flight of planes now. 

BTW, it was ruined for me the day RTS CV went. It's basically heading towards RTS strength squadrons but nerfed play. 

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9 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

Because : cool down time between dive bomber attack increase. This really kills any hope of using them effectively. They are already the most difficult and RNG blessed mechanics of CV and yet now there's no reward for actually setting up attack. There's no double jump to kill heavy AA using SKILL TM too.

 

7 hours ago, dejiko_nyo said:

Yes. The DBs now suck <insert anatomical part here> Might as well just have one flight of planes now. 

BTW, it was ruined for me the day RTS CV went. It's basically heading towards RTS strength squadrons but nerfed play. 

 

SADLY THE NERF ONLY AFFECT TECH TREE SHIP, i am doing fine with Grap Zeppelin BUT Not with the tech tree.... Indomie and Saipan also say hellow huahaha with the nerf..,, its how the way of WG to buff premium CV. the only playable tech tree is Lexington....

Grap Zeppelin DB plane is basically bypass AA, only sacrifice 1-2 plane to nuke 7K HP. the fact that its have 220 knot speed mean it dont need multiple wave, just launch new plane and new plane with fresh HP. of course tech tree dive bomber with 150 knot and AA fragile crying WHAT THE HELL!

 

the nerf itself is buffing saipan and indomitable, since they are not affected.... WG need to increase sale.... 

 

the weird thing is, they should nerf the rocket aim time instead of highly skilled dive bomber. this save DD and still reward high skill player with DB

the way WG introduce swedish DD is also funny, i remember the old day when enemy have mostly AA ship. heck 6km AA range with 3km air concealment...

the good thing is no more aim spread with AADF and there is no invis AA.

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Best thing I've read all day, CV  captains crying because they can't now fly around killing whatever they like with little skill and no comeback,always the last ship to die, love seeing them trying to run away to the corners,

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12 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

Well, there's goes CV i guess. They have really ruined it for me.

Because : cool down time between dive bomber attack increase. This really kills any hope of using them effectively. They are already the most difficult and RNG blessed mechanics of CV and yet now there's no reward for actually setting up attack. There's no double jump to kill heavy AA using SKILL TM too.

It would be fun if they make the bomb predictable so you could snipe with skill for the massive penalties, but nope. RNG decide your fate, a well aimed dive could just all splash no damage and half your squads blown to pieces.

Guess the CV haters got what they want. Next what will they get : Ships that armor proof CV ? :Smile_teethhappy:.

inb4 they give CVs smoke/heal due to 899ing 

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3 minutes ago, smoothsac said:

Best thing I've read all day, CV  captains crying because they can't now fly around killing whatever they like with little skill and no comeback,always the last ship to die, love seeing them trying to run away to the corners,

you do realize that if a CV isn't the last one dead, then either he or his team has made some very major mistakes right

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1 minute ago, CV_NMSL said:

you do realize that if a CV isn't the last one dead, then either he or his team has made some very major mistakes right

great

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CV rework, one year on, CVs now horrible to play, and horrible to play against, :Smile_teethhappy:

GJ WG.

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38 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

CV rework, one year on, CVs now horrible to play, and horrible to play against, :Smile_teethhappy:

GJ WG.

My metric of whether CV is good or now. 12 Kremlins sitting in training room. Take Haku/Midway out. See if I can sink them all in 20 minutes. Right now, no.

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26 minutes ago, dejiko_nyo said:

My metric of whether CV is good or now. 12 Kremlins sitting in training room. Take Haku/Midway out. See if I can sink them all in 20 minutes. Right now, no.

RTS CVs is like a mythological god. Powerful and revered, even worshipped, respected, but also feared and hated.

Rework CVs? Hated, shunned, and even ignored (by me!). Not even feared, because they are not powerful at all.

 

I retracted my pledge to never play Russian ships, but I doubt I will ever retract my promise to never play rework CVs.

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CV can attack anyone while remain safe on the far side of the map dude, still ask for more???

to me, they still deserve even more severe nerf.

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2 hours ago, smoothsac said:

Best thing I've read all day, CV  captains crying because they can't now fly around killing whatever they like with little skill and no comeback,always the last ship to die, love seeing them trying to run away to the corners,

If you think killing ships with CV is little skill, you have never played one. Your horizon is but inside a well.

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4 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

If you think killing ships with CV is little skill, you have never played one. Your horizon is but inside a well.

I’ve mostly sat on the fence with the CV rework. While I’ve never enjoyed playing against CVs before or after the rework, and find them quite annoying, I respect the opinions of people who play them, I doubt I would have the skill to play them half as well. I know I’ve never been able to play them as well due to the fact they require a much lower ping that my network provides.

So, I ask, If the CV spotting mechanics were changed to work like radar, that is, a 6 second delay or so between the CV spotting the ship and the rest of the team seeing it rendered (obviously they would still see it on the minimap), how would this affect play from a CV’s perspective?

I ask because, while the CV can cause annoying damage on its own, the bigger annoyance comes from having other surface ships fire at you. And this would help alleviate that issue, while hopefully opening the CV up to being made more comfortable and rewarding to play for the CV players themselves.

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30 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

I’ve mostly sat on the fence with the CV rework. While I’ve never enjoyed playing against CVs before or after the rework, and find them quite annoying, I respect the opinions of people who play them, I doubt I would have the skill to play them half as well. I know I’ve never been able to play them as well due to the fact they require a much lower ping that my network provides.

So, I ask, If the CV spotting mechanics were changed to work like radar, that is, a 6 second delay or so between the CV spotting the ship and the rest of the team seeing it rendered (obviously they would still see it on the minimap), how would this affect play from a CV’s perspective?

I ask because, while the CV can cause annoying damage on its own, the bigger annoyance comes from having other surface ships fire at you. And this would help alleviate that issue, while hopefully opening the CV up to being made more comfortable and rewarding to play for the CV players themselves.

It would make DD effectively uncounterable and CV will not be able to strike it. 6s is enough to pull smokes and some DD have small enough air detect that it only take 3-5s of flight to be out of viewing distance.

I'm talking about rewarding skills , not noobing. All CV attack except rockets require substantial aiming and motor skill to fine tune attack. Except divebomb do not reward good aiming skill since RNG can screw perfect line up. The way dispersion works favor surface ships, not CV since 50% will be outside the aiming reticule.

I could spend 1 - 3 minutes setting up good strike and get nothing in return. Pew pewing your gun do not take that much preparation.

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18 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

So, I ask, If the CV spotting mechanics were changed to work like radar, that is, a 6 second delay or so between the CV spotting the ship and the rest of the team seeing it rendered (obviously they would still see it on the minimap), how would this affect play from a CV’s perspective?

This would only affect badly from a teamplay perspective. Sure it is annoying to be focused by multiple surface ships when you get perma-spotted. 6 seconds are more than enough to cripple the non-RN squadron if the DD has AA.

And from the economic perspective, CV players would have enough justification for selfish tactics because even at the current state, such teamplay does not even pay the bill. Mind you the average total service cost for T10 CV is way over the board if you don't invest on premium time & any cost reductions. My Midway & Audacious are the most expensive port queens I have because thanks to the never ending nerf streak, they lose more than they earn in battles. 70k-100k loss in credits can be expected with a subpar 120k damage games.

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57 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

If you think killing ships with CV is little skill, you have never played one. Your horizon is but inside a well.

what are you talking about? i am playing CV too and its obvious Rework CV can kill and damage easier. he may be play CV post rework

also its the CV rework, RTS CV is harder due to enemy CV fighter counter. rework CV just damage race.....

i deal 100K damage in rework CV but THERE IS NO EXCITEMENT.... i am getting Georgia, dealing 50K damage but happier than kraken CV, nuking everyone with no counter.

 

43 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

 

So, I ask, If the CV spotting mechanics were changed to work like radar, that is, a 6 second delay or so between the CV spotting the ship and the rest of the team seeing it rendered (obviously they would still see it on the minimap), how would this affect play from a CV’s perspective?

that could be done easier, but i doubt WG do that....

 

15 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

not noobing. All CV attack except rockets require substantial aiming and motor skill to fine tune attack. Except divebomb do not reward good aiming skill since RNG can screw perfect line up. The way dispersion works favor surface ships, not CV since 50% will be outside the aiming reticule.

I could spend 1 - 3 minutes setting up good strike and get nothing in return. Pew pewing your gun do not take that much preparation.

i bet you play IJN CV?

i am sorry to say this but IJN CV suck now, their plane fragile and slow. their nerf is too much.

British CV stronk but deal lower damage.... damn its hard to carry using that thing.

USN CV is the only hope.....

only premium CV that i can say in the good shape, Enterprise, Saipan, Kaga, Indomie and Graf... they can deal massive damage bypassing AA except for saipan

 

ALSO LAG FACTOR

its spiked ping that make your divebomber missed a lot. that happen to me, when i am about to do bombing run, i peek at the ping. if it above 100, i do it 0.2 sec earlier.

 

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1 hour ago, Sir_Feather said:

My Midway & Audacious are the most expensive port queens I have because thanks to the never ending nerf streak, they lose more than they earn in battles. 70k-100k loss in credits can be expected with a subpar 120k damage games.

You only have two of them. Think of the people (ie, me) who have THREE of them. T_T My T10 CVs lie in port rusting because of the disincentives to play. Mind you, I did not regret power rushing to get Midway before the CV Nerf last year. It's just that it sits unused. 😞

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2 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

If you think killing ships with CV is little skill, you have never played one. Your horizon is but inside a well.

He has just 29 pre-rework CV games under his belt. FYI. And guess what "main" he is to be complaining?

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3 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

It would make DD effectively uncounterable and CV will not be able to strike it. 6s is enough to pull smokes and some DD have small enough air detect that it only take 3-5s of flight to be out of viewing distance.

I'm talking about rewarding skills , not noobing. All CV attack except rockets require substantial aiming and motor skill to fine tune attack. Except divebomb do not reward good aiming skill since RNG can screw perfect line up. The way dispersion works favor surface ships, not CV since 50% will be outside the aiming reticule.

I could spend 1 - 3 minutes setting up good strike and get nothing in return. Pew pewing your gun do not take that much preparation.

I'm only talking about the shared vision parts. CV would still be able to see and attack DD as much as it did before. But as others have said, it would reduce the teamplay a bit (though there isn't much teamplay as is... I don't know how much I have to ping and type and ask for help before the CV flies out to spot that flanking DD going after the BBs...)

So,... as a CV, its more about increasing the rewards? So its worth it to do certain things?

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13 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

I'm only talking about the shared vision parts. CV would still be able to see and attack DD as much as it did before. But as others have said, it would reduce the teamplay a bit (though there isn't much teamplay as is... I don't know how much I have to ping and type and ask for help before the CV flies out to spot that flanking DD going after the BBs...)

So,... as a CV, its more about increasing the rewards? So its worth it to do certain things?

Hovering around a dd for long is a very bad idea currently. Sharing your vision if there is a 6 s delay means there will be awkward situation where dd is blinking for your teammates.

It will also kill your productivity , because you can't be sure if your team will shoot dd or not. Also, for the sneakier dd, readying a rocket attack will take you out of  the dd air detection range briefly further confusing your team. This will make them favour more visible targets. It takes awhile to align gun barrel if your team is looking the wrong way.

Currently , WG envision CV to be anti capital ship and most rewards are toward shitting on BB and lone CA/CL. But they screwed DB now, so even in trashing BB and CA/CL CV is kinda mediocre right now. Especially against super cruiser mini class.

CV right now is farm damage, there is no incentive to help your allies, who hate you as much as your opposition. Fighters are not as useless now, but they are still not worthwhile nevertheless.

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To be honest what I'd like to see is some tweaking of DB and TB, and the removal or the heavy nerf of the spread for the Rocket planes, also rocket planes should have a limited number - why? because your attack planes are your fighters, so if you launch your Attack planes, then you should not be able to get Fighters until the attack formation returns......and vice versa launch fighters to cover a friendly or yourself, then you get no attack planes......

Give DB's a little more damage, Torps are OK, Rockets need a massive nerf in both spread and numbers being fired. USN CV's (and the Tier 8 IJN Carrier) can and do remove DD's from the game with a single Squadron, you see the DD dodging and trying to not give an easy target but the CV says nope and sends him back to port. CV's need to be rewarded for a good torp or DB attack, that I agree with.

H

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4 hours ago, Grygus_Triss said:

So, I ask, If the CV spotting mechanics were changed to work like radar, that is, a 6 second delay or so between the CV spotting the ship and the rest of the team seeing it rendered (obviously they would still see it on the minimap), how would this affect play from a CV’s perspective?

For a CV player it wouldn't change anything at all.  It would only change the play for the CV's team, who would have less to shoot at.  Basically it would be a non-issue for a CV player while being worse for everyone else.  CV spotting is patchy as it is, this would only make it worse.  Currently only BB's get spotted for decent periods by a CV - DD's have very low air concealment and aren't spotted for long, while cruisers are only spotted while the CV is in AA range, which means they aren't going to be there long, and they can't be fighter spotted for more than a few seconds.

On a separate note, I play DD's and CV's, about the same amount of each, and for me the game is a lot more fun than it was pre-rework.  I'd say the most fun thing I find in the game at the moment is playing my DD's against CV's - it is very dynamic, very skill based with lots of options, it's just fantastic fun.  Pulling off a perfect drift jink and watching the rockets barely touch you or miss you completely still makes me literally laugh out loud, and not much in the game does that.

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50 minutes ago, legionary2099 said:

CV right now is farm damage, there is no incentive to help your allies, who hate you as much as your opposition. Fighters are not as useless now, but they are still not worthwhile nevertheless

Concur.

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19 hours ago, legionary2099 said:

Because : cool down time between dive bomber attack increase. This really kills any hope of using them effectively. They are already the most difficult and RNG blessed mechanics of CV and yet now there's no reward for actually setting up attack. There's no double jump to kill heavy AA using SKILL TM too. 

Actually I support the removal of slingshotting. An exploit is an exploit and you can't balance AA properly if an exploit exists to make some planes practically ignore it.

But otherwise I agree - the DB RNG can be just infuriating when you line up a perfect drop with the enemy ship covering 90% of aiming reticule, only for all your bombs to fall in the remaining 10%. Had that happen in my Moskva against an enemy Haku yesterday. The enemy Haku got a jump on me with AP DBs because I was stationary behind an island and wasn't paying attention to the map and only noticed too late. I was barely moving when he lined up a bow to stern attack and dropped his bombs. The bombs had a very good drop pattern - all three bombs fell in a vertical line as they should - but they fell into the water just off my port side so I took 0 damage. The enemy Haku must have been so frustrated, even more so because I had DFAA and shot down some of his planes after.

But I guess it is no less infuriating than a BB shooting a broadsiding cruiser at close range, only to get 5 overpens instead of a Devstrike and getting torped by that cruiser after.

6 hours ago, Paladinum said:

RTS CVs is like a mythological god. Powerful and revered, even worshipped, respected, but also feared and hated. 

Heh I am not even sure if people even respected RTS CVs because when you think about it, countering RTS CVs as a surface ship is little different from Rework CVs - share AA, don't sail alone and use WASD keys when under CV attack. Yet so many still don't know how to play against Rework CVs, which indicates they learnt nothing from the time of RTS CVs.

Why they didn't learn anything? Because CV matches were so rare, when players did get into a CV match, most of them would just brush it off as a rare unfortunate event - like a detonation. Because of that a lot of WoWs players never learnt to respect CVs like how good DD players very quickly learnt to respect radar.

Most DD player respect radar enough to know that you shouldn't rush straight into cap when it is a radar heavy match. Their respect for radar causes them to change their behaviour. But the same is not true for CVs I feel. I see a lot of people making the same elementary mistakes when going up against CVs and making the same old tired complaints despite being more than 1 year into the rework, meaning they never bothered to respect CVs.

Apart from the CV/AA changes ensuring that a CV with full squadrons will always get at least 1 strike through against a lone ship, there is really not much difference between RTS CVs and Rework CVs when it comes to countering them as a surface ship.

No, what we are seeing is people refusing to change their behaviour because they never learnt to respect CVs. And unlike RTS CVs, rework CVs are not rare enough that they can just ignore it. They actually have to learn how to change their playstyles, and people don't like having to change things.

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