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Max_Battle

Random thoughts, leave your AA off on DD

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I've been playing a bit of T8+ DDs lately. Missions and campaign stuff needed caps or whatever, or just straight had to be done in T9+ DD.

Admitedly, I do like my American DDs and I am usually not detered at all when I see a CV in the lineup when I am in Benson, Fletcher or Gearing.

But I have really been making a point of turning off AA - not claiming this as my idea, I read other people's advice and I try it when it seems to make sense.

If you hold your nerve, the enemy CV can often spend time looking for you - time spent not AP bombing your BBs or torping your cruisers.

I really noticed this.

If you can, or have to, stay near a friendly ship. Sure some people will rage at you, but you are useless if dead. I have been focused horribly when spotted lately and most of the time, spotted means dead.

If you can get the enemy planes in your AA zone and they go to attack a friendly, pop sector focus as they go in.

Have you played a CV? I don't care how good you are, when a DD with decent AA suddenly opens up on you form out of the blue, its gonna rattle you, or at least make you question what you are doing for a moment.

Even if you are about to be spotted, hold your nerve, try not to sector them until they are on top of you. Play CV - see how hard it is to instantly attack a DD that suddenly appears only 1-2km away. You have to turn or abort and in that time, you WILL take plane damage.

It has taken some nerve and hasn't always been a game winner but staying hidden and spotting for your team can be very helpful.

Just a random thought.

Take it on board if you want, your call.

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17 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

I've been playing a bit of T8+ DDs lately. Missions and campaign stuff needed caps or whatever, or just straight had to be done in T9+ DD.

Admitedly, I do like my American DDs and I am usually not detered at all when I see a CV in the lineup when I am in Benson, Fletcher or Gearing.

But I have really been making a point of turning off AA - not claiming this as my idea, I read other people's advice and I try it when it seems to make sense.

If you hold your nerve, the enemy CV can often spend time looking for you - time spent not AP bombing your BBs or torping your cruisers.

I really noticed this.

If you can, or have to, stay near a friendly ship. Sure some people will rage at you, but you are useless if dead. I have been focused horribly when spotted lately and most of the time, spotted means dead.

If you can get the enemy planes in your AA zone and they go to attack a friendly, pop sector focus as they go in.

Have you played a CV? I don't care how good you are, when a DD with decent AA suddenly opens up on you form out of the blue, its gonna rattle you, or at least make you question what you are doing for a moment.

Even if you are about to be spotted, hold your nerve, try not to sector them until they are on top of you. Play CV - see how hard it is to instantly attack a DD that suddenly appears only 1-2km away. You have to turn or abort and in that time, you WILL take plane damage.

It has taken some nerve and hasn't always been a game winner but staying hidden and spotting for your team can be very helpful.

Just a random thought.

Take it on board if you want, your call.

this is what every CV main has being telling DD players to do in order to counteract rocket strikes, but nooooo, no one ever listens because "muh evil cv players"

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2 minutes ago, CV_NMSL said:

this is what every CV main has being telling DD players to do in order to counteract rocket strikes, but nooooo, no one ever listens because "muh evil cv players"

It seems to work.

But you need nerves of steel sometimes.

And patience.

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I usually have AA turned off. Only really turn it on when spotted, and turn it off right after.

Not sure why this is a new strategy.

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23 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Have you played a CV? I don't care how good you are, when a DD with decent AA suddenly opens up on you form out of the blue, its gonna rattle you, or at least make you question what you are doing for a moment.

That is only a huge problem for the CV if the DD has strong AA stats like Kidd, Friesland, and EU DDs.

 

25 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Even if you are about to be spotted, hold your nerve, try not to sector them until they are on top of you. Play CV - see how hard it is to instantly attack a DD that suddenly appears only 1-2km away. You have to turn or abort and in that time, you WILL take plane damage.

As the Tomato said above, it is exactly what we have been preaching about. @Moggytwo also had posted the instruction in the forum more than once.

However there are some exceptions. The French & Soviet DDs have large air detection range which forces them to rely only on AA blobbing instead.

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2 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Not sure why this is a new strategy.

It's not really a new strategy though. I have been using the strategy since the RTS CV era. Although it was only used for low & mid tiers.

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8 minutes ago, Grygus_Triss said:

Not sure why this is a new strategy.

Yeah, nah.

I'm not claiming its new.

I was only commenting because I have used it a lot lately and I just wanted to (re)put it out there.

Not new.

6 minutes ago, Sir_Feather said:

That is only a huge problem for the CV if the DD has strong AA stats like Kidd, Friesland, and EU DDs.

Agree. Which is why I specified that I have often been in DDs with "good" AA lately.

Although, the Scoreboard I posted of a recent Z23 game in the joke thread "DDs are no good" did have 2 CVs in it.

I got 3 caps in that game and would not have if I had let the CVs spot and attack em as much as they wanted too.

I did this by fastidiously turning my AA off after every plane encounter.

Although one CV did sometimes leave fighters over me if I had to smoke... which is just food really...

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pretty much every DD player know to do this, but yet not all DD can do AA , in fact few can actually do , and smoke while useful is too few for most DD and cool down too long in between , and RN smoke well the planes can wait them out ( which is one of the key grip I had wit planes, unlimited loiter time )

Edited by Mechfori

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10 minutes ago, Mechfori said:

pretty much every DD player know to do this

Maybe us enlightened folk on the forums 😛

 

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As playing DD a lot lately i turn it off all the way to the point in which the planes engage me or my team mate and im spotted i turn it on for support. You avoid detection since AA range is further then your air detection range any advantage is just enough for you to get away. Ive even made it through games going undetected and killing the CV going down the middle and even not losing any point of health in a CV game..... crazy but true. Playing a lot of DD a lot and even got my Kitakaze now 😃

 

Edited by AxEyBoI
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Yep this is the method I used on my Kagero grinding lately, not rushing to the cap in a predictable manner on the early game and play hide and seek with the first wave of rocket planes, although that means poor cruisers who spawn near me will take that hit...

But still, by capping it basically broadcasts: "there's a DD here in the cap" to the CV so it is still a dangerous attempt so I have to make sure my smoke is ready and spamming F6 to my team

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3 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

Play CV - see how hard it is to instantly attack a DD that suddenly appears only 1-2km away.

That is why I have been preaching for ages for players to try all classes - because some things are not readily apparent until you put yourself into their shoes.

4 hours ago, CV_NMSL said:

this is what every CV main has being telling DD players to do in order to counteract rocket strikes, but nooooo, no one ever listens because "muh evil cv players" 

I remember being told off all too well by people with 0 games in CVs. :Smile_facepalm:

And I don't even consider myself a CV main. Just a WoWs player who likes to play all classes.

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4 hours ago, Max_Battle said:

If you can, or have to, stay near a friendly ship. Sure some people will rage at you, but you are useless if dead. I have been focused horribly when spotted lately and most of the time, spotted means dead.

Staying near a friendly ship is bad advice, when given on its own.

 

Don't stay near your teammates unless you intend to be spotted or perform something which requires you to be there. You only do that if the CV is actively scouting with rockets, or likely to spot you for whatever reasons.

Just like how your teammates are torpedo magnets, they are also CV magnets which can get you spotted by accident. So you practice social-distancing, and keep a safe distance from them in case you catch something.

Another key rule to staying hidden is to just stay out of the CV's flight path towards your friendly ships, unless you have a reason to be in said flight path.

 

This is something you best naturally learn in IJN torpboats, because you're all about stealth and are not burdened by the concept of AA, which is something NA is too entrenched in.

Edited by Verytis

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8 minutes ago, Verytis said:

Staying near a friendly ship is bad advice, when given on its own.

Which is why I qualified it.

If you are being aggressively hunted, you may have no choice.

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21 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

If you are being aggressively hunted, you may have no choice.

That happens, most often after you've spotted an otherwise concealed CA/DD, or after your torps have been noticed by the enemy. Or, you're in the middle of nowhere and RPF'd. Because that gives positional information about you.

If the CV is actively looking for you, just try to stay hidden. Its the best time to keep AA off unless you're spotted because the CV is now voluntarily burning time just for you.

Just note that the CV will skirt around your friendly ship's AA when scouting, so the edge of your teammate's AA suddenly becomes the most dangerous area because they can deflect planes towards you. Either hug the AA ship or move further away.

Edited by Verytis

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3 minutes ago, Verytis said:

That happens, most often after you've spotted an otherwise concealed CA/DD, or after your torps have been noticed by the enemy. Or, you're in the middle of nowhere and RPF'd. Because that gives positional information about you.

Sometimes. I don't know about "most often", though I haven't been keeping count. Have you?

I had a battle the other night in my Gearing where I was heading for B with AA off but of course as soon as the planes got spotted by me - the CV player knew. No shots had been fired but he hunted me aggressively. I could either start shooting while he was too close to immediately attack me (considered it), smoke up and hope he went away (considered it - bad choice) or hold my nerve and head towards friendlies. I had no idea how good he was. He may have so crippled me that I would be of limited use to my team. So I chose discretion.

Other times I have watched as the CV seeks me for a while and eventually gives up. Or seems to, then turns back on me and resumes searching.

I don't think there is a "most often".

You have to remain fluid.

4 minutes ago, Verytis said:

If the CV is actively looking for you, just try to stay hidden. Its the best time to keep AA off unless you're spotted because the CV is now voluntarily burning time just for you.

Yes, that's the TL:DR of my OP I guess. Thanks for repeating.

 

5 minutes ago, Verytis said:

Just note that the CV will skirt around your friendly ship's AA when scouting, so the edge of your teammate's AA suddenly becomes the most dangerous area because they can deflect planes towards you. Either hug the AA ship or move further away.

No they don't. Not always. I have on many occasions gone beside a friendly while being hunted, especially if I am low on health with AA off only to sector it as the CV attacked the larger ship while looking for me... again, ESPECIALLY if I am wounded and the CV player knows it. They get kill lust.

Some CV players will do this, some won't. Again, I simply don't see what you said as universal.

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5 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Sometimes. I don't know about "most often", though I haven't been keeping count. Have you?

I had a battle the other night in my Gearing where I was heading for B with AA off but of course as soon as the planes got spotted by me - the CV player knew. No shots had been fired but he hunted me aggressively. I could either start shooting while he was too close to immediately attack me (considered it), smoke up and hope he went away (considered it - bad choice) or hold my nerve and head towards friendlies. I had no idea how good he was. He may have so crippled me that I would be of limited use to my team. So I chose discretion.

Other times I have watched as the CV seeks me for a while and eventually gives up. Or seems to, then turns back on me and resumes searching.

I don't think there is a "most often".

You have to remain fluid. 

He does have a point though.

Due to the nature of CVs, every second not doing anything is wasted time that could have gone to doing damage. Most CV players would much prefer going after targets they can see rather than trying to search a random piece of ocean for a very stealthy DD that may not even be there. If a CV is actively hunting for you in a given area, that means they had some inkling of your position, whether it be RPF, a teammate pinging the map because they were spotted when they shouldn't be, planes getting detected when they shouldn't be, your torps getting detected, etc.

Or it could also be because the CV had no valid target to strike - so they decided to play spotter instead. This often happens if the CV is bottom-tiered and your team is sharing AA.

But yes, you have to remain fluid. Part of the skill in WoWs is reading the situation correctly and reacting accordingly.

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18 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

Sometimes. I don't know about "most often", though I haven't been keeping count. Have you?

Not really, but trying to hunt blindly tends to be time-consuming for the CV, so should generally be less attractive for the CV to try it.

23 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

I had a battle the other night in my Gearing where I was heading for B with AA off but of course as soon as the planes got spotted by me - the CV player knew.

Sounds like a CV player that has an idea of what hes doing. You might have picked a bad time to break off from the rest of the fleet, or just bad luck.

But yes I forgot to mention plane spotting and caps too.

 

29 minutes ago, Max_Battle said:

No they don't. Not always. I have on many occasions gone beside a friendly while being hunted, especially if I am low on health with AA off only to sector it as the CV attacked the larger ship while looking for me... again, ESPECIALLY if I am wounded and the CV player knows it. They get kill lust.

Some CV players will do this, some won't. Again, I simply don't see what you said as universal.

Going through other ships to try and find a DD is still the least attractive option. Its possible he anticipated you trying that, and thinks he'll have enough rockets left to finish you off. Or he gave up searching and would have been happy just to get some damage off but you were there.

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4 hours ago, rookieFTW said:

 although that means poor cruisers who spawn near me will take that hit...

If I'm in a div I'll happily take the hit in my cruiser if it means keeping my DD unmolested. I can heal most of the damage back and the CV will lose all his planes from that first group

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6 hours ago, Thyaliad said:

Due to the nature of CVs, every second not doing anything is wasted time that could have gone to doing damage. Most CV players would much prefer going after targets they can see rather than trying to search a random piece of ocean for a very stealthy DD that may not even be there.

And that's why the T10 CV players are less likely to "bully" the DDs because such a form of teamplay is a waste of time if the prey knows what he's doing. And that does not even pay the bill. The majority would prefer the classic damage farming. *cough* 250k base service cost (plane lost not included). And the same issue is why some T10 games have no CVs at all.

9 hours ago, rookieFTW said:

But still, by capping it basically broadcasts: "there's a DD here in the cap" to the CV so it is still a dangerous attempt so I have to make sure my smoke is ready and spamming F6 to my team

And that's probably the most basic form of the backup plan for DD. I mean a DD cannot just get into cap, and then be like "now what?". A good DD player will think not 1, but 2 steps ahead (like yours). The experienced ones will think even more. And I think this is the summary of skill gap among the DD players.

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